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Hi all; well almost two weeks until our 2nd BVI trip. Last time we went it was a real pain raising the main sail with the lazy jacks as we are on a Moorings 4000 and it was hard to see when the sail got fetched in the lazy jacks. I was wondering if any of you have tried the approach suggested in the following video: Offshore Sailing School - lowering lazyjacks Basically is involves - Putting the wind slightly off the starboard bow, lowering port side lazy jacks, get the main quickly up using electric winch, off you go. re tighten lazy jacks once sails are properly trimmed and boat is under way. would appreciate thoughts on this method and others that would make raising the mainsail less stressful. I will be sailing with my family and 14 year old son who will be helping run the lines. I can just envision some stressful back and forth when raising the mainsail! Thanks
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Yes raising the main clear of the lazy jacks can be tricky.
Try slackening the main sheet a bit, then when you are on the wind, haul fast!
Haven't tried the method you cited, but seems harder...
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Raise the main while still moored or at anchor. Drink your morning coffee while doing so, that is, take your time there is no rush.
John
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I have long thought all charter boats should have an easy way to move the lazyjack lines out of the way. They only come into play for 5 to 10 seconds to drop the main, and then to hold the stackpack, so why are they hanging up there all the time? I rigged these, on a friends boat, so they could be pulled back to the goose neck when not needed and quickly pulled into place when dropping the main - and I have seen commercial versions of that rig.
Polaris
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bviboater said:
Raise the main while still moored or at anchor. Drink your morning coffee while doing so, that is, take your time there is no rush. We did this once last year. easiest hoist of the main ever! Bu...there was one boat in our anchorage and the wind was just perfect for us to fall off and get sailing. I guess this depends on how busy the mooring/anchor field is and wind direction? I also assume that you have the main depowered (e.g. loosened Mainsheet and boom vang?) I just watched the "ode to the credit card captain" on you tube again... Don't want to be that guy! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
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I rigged my old Catalina the same way, easy peasy cant understand why they cant modify the stack pack. They are uselees and worth way more trouble than they are worth IMO.
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I don't know of any charter boats that have a lazy jack setup as you wish for. If wishes were fishes... So not much point in telling you that this would help you since that's not the system you're going to have. Hoisting the main while on the mooring ball is always easiest. But let me suggest two other things to consider. First a couple of observations. (a) The reason raising the main is tricky is that the sail battens get hooked up on the lazy jack lines. You will continue to fight this problem until the battens are past the lazy jack lines, i.e., once the sail is about 2/3's of the way up you are past the problem. That's a good thing 'cause that's about when things are getting heavy. (b) You have a clear line of sight on both sides of the sail from the mast location. Not so much from the winch location. We always send a crew to the mast. His/her job is to "sweat" the main halyard, i.e., he/she is not pulling it "up" but rather towards them. The second crew member is at the winch/clutch and pulls the slack out as the person at the mast is sweating the line. The person at the mast has a completely clear view of the sail and can easily determine if the sail is hooked or not. Sometimes the mast person might tell the winch person to lower the sail slightly or tell him to wait a second. But mostly the winch person will pick up the slack as soon as the person working the mast sweats the line. Once the battens clear the lazy jack lines the winch person can send the sail to the top. In addition to sweating the line at the mast I strongly recommend that you take a look at your auto pilot to see if it has the function to hold the boat at a certain angle to the wind. B&G has this ability and I'm sure Raymarine has the same. I have instructions for the B&G on my web site located here together with a short video. Letting the auto pilot hold the boat 0 degrees to the wind is much much simpler than having the helmsman do this task especially since he may or may not have a clear view of the sail and lazy jacks. https://www.sv-dreammachine.com/operating-hintsAnd lastly - it's not a race to get the main up. Better to make sure you're not tangled in the lazy jacks than getting impatient and giving it a good pull. You will pull the lazy jack lines off the mast if you give it a good enough tug.
Life's short - sail more!
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agrimsrud said:I don't know of any charter boats that have a lazy jack setup as you wish for. If wishes were fishes... So not much point in telling you that this would help you since that's not the system you're going to have. Hoisting the main while on the mooring ball is always easiest. But let me suggest two other things to consider. First a couple of observations. (a) The reason raising the main is tricky is that the sail battens get hooked up on the lazy jack lines. You will continue to fight this problem until the battens are past the lazy jack lines, i.e., once the sail is about 2/3's of the way up you are past the problem. That's a good thing 'cause that's about when things are getting heavy. (b) You have a clear line of sight on both sides of the sail from the mast location. Not so much from the winch location. We always send a crew to the mast. His/her job is to "sweat" the main halyard, i.e., he/she is not pulling it "up" but rather towards them. The second crew member is at the winch/clutch and pulls the slack out as the person at the mast is sweating the line. The person at the mast has a completely clear view of the sail and can easily determine if the sail is hooked or not. Sometimes the mast person might tell the winch person to lower the sail slightly or tell him to wait a second. But mostly the winch person will pick up the slack as soon as the person working the mast sweats the line. Once the battens clear the lazy jack lines the winch person can send the sail to the top. In addition to sweating the line at the mast I strongly recommend that you take a look at your auto pilot to see if it has the function to hold the boat at a certain angle to the wind. B&G has this ability and I'm sure Raymarine has the same. I have instructions for the B&G on my web site located here together with a short video. Letting the auto pilot hold the boat 0 degrees to the wind is much much simpler than having the helmsman do this task especially since he may or may not have a clear view of the sail and lazy jacks. https://www.sv-dreammachine.com/operating-hintsAnd lastly - it's not a race to get the main up. Better to make sure you're not tangled in the lazy jacks than getting impatient and giving it a good pull. You will pull the lazy jack lines off the mast if you give it a good enough tug. Great points, thanks! The moorings 4000 that we are on has the main halyard running to the helm which is good and bad. Good in that there is an electric winch, bad in that you can't see the @#%$'ing mainsail! we did have someone looking at the mainsail but (since they didn't know port from starboard) communication was an issue. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> The auto pilot can hold a course based on wind direction we did this last year and used it to raise the main sail. Now that I am going back over what we did, I think that our main sheet was way too tight and, as such, the boom wasn't free to move with the wind and any small deviation caused the sail to lean into either lazy jack and get caught. I think that I might try loosening the main sheet so that the boom can point towards the wind more freely. Not sure why this didn't occur to us but on my 26 mirage, we don't have lazy jacks so never a problem! If anyone has any more tips, keep them coming! They are much appreciated <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />
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Taking this off on a tangent: The only time I ran into trouble in my 30 year sailing history with the mainsail was using a power winch. The second reef line was caught and I blew a sail (didn't get any of that deposit back). Since, then I check the reef lines. Any other pearls, on rising the main under power winch?
-- ps - if you place the winch handle in the power winch and then push the power button > you'll only do that once. Hopefully, you still have one good arm left after this. It's like reaching off the back of the boat and holding the handle of mop bucket to get some water while you underway > you'll only do it once (if your friends circle the boat back around to pick you back up)
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To avoid sail damage using a electric winch start with only two turns around the drum. The winch will slip if the sail hangs up. You made need to add a turn as you get the sail almost up. The mainsheet needs to be slacked on almost every charter cat anytime you host the main. The boom needs to be free to rise or you will damage the sail.
G
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I also assume that you have the main depowered (e.g. loosened Mainsheet and boom vang?)
Yes. and I also put a reef in the sail. Leave the sail depowered as you motor off the mooring
John
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Besides looking for clearance, if there is the slightest change in resistance, check carefully the lazy jacks as well as reef lines. Even with electric wench, the slightest snag can usually be sensed...Don't ignore it.
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I did not realize that most charter boats do not have the lazy jacks rigged so they can be pulled forward and out of the way.
I have almost always sailed older vessels and have rigged lazy jacks often. I always pull them forward to the mast to raise the main and left them that way until I wanted to drop the main. They have no use underway and on long trips will actually chafe the sail.
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Slow as you go is pro.
Just as approaching a dock or mooring, slow is better raising the main - even more so with a power winch.
Holding into the wind on auto, the sail and boom will still flutter; wait...then power up slowly, not quickly just because you can with electric power.
Some advantage to a manual winch, you can sense the resistance. Go slow and you won't ruin a sail or lazy jacks.
I chartered the Moorings 40' last year in Greece. Visibility of the sail is difficult from the helm. We Position a crew member on the hardtop aft of the boom so he can see both sides of the boom/sail and watch the clearance of the battens as they move past the lazy jack rigging.
Go slow, go pro.
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Another option is to put a crew member on the bimini with the boat hook to keep the battens clear.
G
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We just go slow as well - If I can't see it myself (which is the case on our boat with the dodger and bimini blocking my view), then I just have someone tell me when to stop and go. It doesn't take look long to get past the lazy jacks, but it does take some patience.
Matt
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Funny that I'd read the post and answers without watching the video. We're relative newbies and might or might not have messed up a lazy jack on an early charter after lessons.  Now that I've seen the video that seems like overkill. We started loosening but not releasing the lazy jack lines to give a little extra play for the battens. We also let out the main sheet and have a little more patience. Much less stress than the early days. It's a two person job with lots of hand signals but so far so good.
S/V Tortuga Lagoon 46 ![[Linked Image]](https://www.tickerfactory.com/ezt/d/4;10765;128/st/20201110/e/Tortuga+in+USVI+deux/dt/0/k/256a/event.png)
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Thanks for all the tips. Certainly learned a lot of great strategies. The more I think about it the more I think the easing of the main sheet will make the job so much easier. I recollect last year that it was pretty tight which would explain our troubles. I will have a look at the lazy jacks on the mooring 4000 though to see if they can be loosened or if they are fixed and post back on the forum for an FYI... T-2weeks to go <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Banana.gif" alt="" />
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That's why I love this forum. Getting ready to do my 2nd ever cat charter August 1st and had the same problem on a Moorings 4000 last October. Never remember hoisting the main being a problem when I was training so, not only do I feel a little vindicated but I know what to try next time. Thanks!
Brian
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If you think there is SOME extra resistance....STOP and look closely until you determine what is caught
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If you have the crew, don't use electric winch at first. (Remember what it was like when there were no electric winches?) On a Lagoon 52 last month, I was blessed with with two strong 40 year old mates. While one watched from the stern the other, using sailing gloves and with two wraps on the winch, manually (and much more quickly than the winch) raised the main until the battens were clear of the lazy jacks. Then, with a third turn on the winch, he used the winch to slowly raise the heavy sail the rest of the way. Never had a hangup problem.
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I don't understand why Moorings doesn't put a screen flap in the Bimini so the captain can see the sail going up. I had this on my 393 and it made life very easy. Not to mention I didn't have to lean out to see the top of the mainsail while underway.
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I agree manually raising first portion manually to clear the lazyjacks is safer... But when electric winch is available, unlikely to get many volunteers to raise it to the top.
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NCSailor said:
I don't understand why Moorings doesn't put a screen flap in the Bimini so the captain can see the sail going up. I had this on my 393 and it made life very easy. Not to mention I didn't have to lean out to see the top of the mainsail while underway. I have not sailed the Moorings 4000 however I have sailed the other models including the 4800. You have a great view from the helm on the 4800 and other models so this seems to be a 4000 specific issue. G
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Obviously, all boats are different, and I haven't sailed the specific boats you mentioned. That said, I haven't seen a lazy jack set up yet that wasn't adjustable so that you could accomplish easing one side. Usually, there are small cleats on the mast.
As others have said, depending on the specific boat it may not be necessary.
Still, I have on occasion just eased one side and tied it off to the mast (and left it like that for the duration). Hoist as shown on the video and drop favoring the other side (so the sail lands inside the stack pack) - easy.
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Just got back from our trip yesterday. Some post trip observations
1) the lazy jacks were attached via cleat hitch to a cleat on the mast so probably could have adjusted them but didn't bother.
2) easing of the sheets a bit, raising the main when moored and wind direction and mooring were good and having a crew member on the bimini to move the lazy jacks out of the way helped.
3) by the end of the trip ended up sailing with just the jib to Norman (from Jost) and to Rd Town. Ended up still doing 5.5 - 6 knots in 17-20 knots of wind, close-hauled (50-60 degrees off wind). Some of the nicest and calmest sailing all week. Very pleasant.
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