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Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast #135548
07/12/2017 09:25 PM
07/12/2017 09:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 180
blackmercedes Offline OP
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blackmercedes  Offline OP
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At Maho???? From jet blast?

Last edited by ruralcarrier; 07/13/2017 05:42 AM.
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Re: Someone died? [Re: blackmercedes] #135549
07/12/2017 09:33 PM
07/12/2017 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 272
Kent Island Maryland
Jim_Laraine Offline
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Posts: 272
Kent Island Maryland

Re: Someone died? [Re: Jim_Laraine] #135550
07/12/2017 11:56 PM
07/12/2017 11:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,746
Med/ Caribbean
sailbynight Offline
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Med/ Caribbean
So sad. Plenty of signs warning against, but everyone still does it.

Re: Someone died? [Re: blackmercedes] #135551
07/13/2017 05:42 AM
07/13/2017 05:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,963
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Ohio


J.D.
Re: Someone died? [Re: ruralcarrier] #135552
07/13/2017 05:56 AM
07/13/2017 05:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Louisiana
o2bnsxm Offline
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Louisiana
Terribly tragic. NY Daily news reported that this was the first fatality ever reported although another person was seriously injured in 2012.
Considering the amount of people that are doing this, and the dangers involved, I was surprised that this was the first fatality.

Last edited by o2bnsxm; 07/13/2017 06:00 AM.
Re: Someone died? [Re: ruralcarrier] #135553
07/13/2017 06:27 AM
07/13/2017 06:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
Boston and St. Maarten
ravi Offline
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Boston and St. Maarten
Sorry to hear the sad news. Do you think it would be worthwhile to add protective padding around the concrete?


My wife and I live in St. Maarten during the winter and in the Boston area the rest of the year.
Re: Someone died? [Re: ravi] #135554
07/13/2017 06:58 AM
07/13/2017 06:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,963
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Ohio
Protective padding? Perhaps but how about people use common sense and don't knowingly do stupid and unsafe things.


J.D.
Re: Someone died? [Re: ravi] #135555
07/13/2017 07:08 AM
07/13/2017 07:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,126
Massachusetts
boucharda Offline
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Massachusetts
After managing an Emergency Department for MANY years I realized there can only be so much done to protect people from themselves.

Tragic event and different but similar situations occur every day everywhere

Re: Someone died? [Re: boucharda] #135556
07/13/2017 08:04 AM
07/13/2017 08:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,458
Manhattan
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weeks5051 Offline
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Manhattan
Quote
boucharda said:
After managing an Emergency Department for MANY years I realized there can only be so much done to protect people from themselves.

Tragic event and different but similar situations occur every day everywhere

Very True. Yearly on average in the U.S. there are 20 deaths from skydiving, 90 deaths worldwide from scuba diving, and over 700 cycling deaths in the U.S. Should we try to stop people from doing these dangerous activities too?

Re: Someone died? [Re: ruralcarrier] #135557
07/13/2017 08:05 AM
07/13/2017 08:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 107
Simsbury, Connecticut
shieneehead Offline
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Simsbury, Connecticut
It is sad that it happened but standing at the fence is one of the most asinine things I've seen. I've never understood the motivation to do it. It doesn't look enjoyable. The internet is loaded with videos of people getting hurt and sandblasted. It's like playing Russian roulette. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: Someone died? [Re: shieneehead] #135558
07/13/2017 08:21 AM
07/13/2017 08:21 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 266
C
CaribLee Offline
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We passed that area at around 6:15 last night. Saw flashing police lights and many people standing in the road at the end of the runway. We also passed an ambulance and emergency vehicles as we headed towards Simpson Bay. There was a very significant emergency response. We wondered if it was jet blast related or whether someone had been struck by a car. So sad to hear it ended in a fatality.

Re: Someone died? [Re: weeks5051] #135559
07/13/2017 08:25 AM
07/13/2017 08:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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Staten Island
Quote
weeks5051 said:
Quote
boucharda said:
After managing an Emergency Department for MANY years I realized there can only be so much done to protect people from themselves.

Tragic event and different but similar situations occur every day everywhere

Very True. Yearly on average in the U.S. there are 20 deaths from skydiving, 90 deaths worldwide from scuba diving, and over 700 cycling deaths in the U.S. Should we try to stop people from doing these dangerous activities too?


Apples and oranges - while dangerous these activities in the hands of those trained and experienced reduce the risks - standing at the fence at Maho is simply dangerous and foolish and requires no special skill - observing the warning signs seems easy enough to me.


[Linked Image]
Re: Someone died? [Re: Bobcat] #135560
07/13/2017 09:18 AM
07/13/2017 09:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,126
Massachusetts
boucharda Offline
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Massachusetts
Quote
observing the warning signs seems easy enough to me


Yup...

Look at something as simple as wearing seat belts. You can make it a law, you can put buzzers/verbal reminders in cars and place flashing signs on the highway but most everyday (yesterday in RI) there are stories about people who just decide to make the informed decision not to wear them and perish because of their decision.

Re: Someone died? [Re: shieneehead] #135561
07/13/2017 10:34 AM
07/13/2017 10:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,565
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Auburn, WA

Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMScubaman] #135562
07/13/2017 12:27 PM
07/13/2017 12:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,237
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LBI2SXM Offline
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It stated in the paper that the area is patrolled by the police. In all of the times I have been there I never saw a patrol car and police warnings. Maybe there should be more patrols and give out heavy fines for hanging on the fence, it may save another life. For some reason, people ignore the sign and do it anyway. I am surprised the woman was in her late fifties. I would expect this of teenagers who have no fear, not an older lady. May she RIP.

Re: Someone died? [Re: LBI2SXM] #135563
07/13/2017 01:03 PM
07/13/2017 01:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,896
North Kingstown, Rhode Island
Bob_Dot Offline
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Bob_Dot  Offline
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North Kingstown, Rhode Island
If they put up a solid deflector type barrier that would angle the blast upward there would be no fence hanging, no tourists, no taxis, no traffic jams late in the afternoon because people on cruise ships would be elsewhere.

Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast [Re: blackmercedes] #135564
07/13/2017 01:11 PM
07/13/2017 01:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,234
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Central Florida!
So sad for this lady's family that this happened. Even if a person doesn't try to 'ride the fence', we see REALLY stupid behavior there all the time. People literally stand in the road, walk in the road, walk on the concrete barriers, right in front of cars going past, and they are usually half lit. It makes me very nervous to drive down through there when there are a lot of people there, afraid that someone will fall right in front of our car and we will run them down. People seem to have no good sense about them.


Carol Hill
Re: Someone died? [Re: LBI2SXM] #135565
07/13/2017 01:23 PM
07/13/2017 01:23 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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If most people would think about it (but they don't) The health effects are not good at all from inhaling mass amounts of Jet-A exhaust. I posted a similar post on this years ago on this subject and it was removed for some reason. But It's fact...
Sure there are a lot of activities that can be risky and dangerous and you can die from instantly, but usually those things or activities do not include inhaling toxic chemicals.
So why expose yourself to this especially when most complain about health issues when someone who is smoking too close to you in a normal setting like a restaurant?

Between respiratory and DNA altering issues, Bone and Marrow altering, breathing heavy chemical particulate matter, heavier toxins such as benzene during the heating or burning of Diesel Jet Fuel Increase or almost double in some instances during its exhaust phase. I have met people that have gone almost every day of their trip because of the excitement of something we are not allowed to do at home, for many reasons. My OSHA training spent an hour on this explanation and short term or long term wasn't an issue as opposed to all of the risks associated to this activity. I guess you could call the cruise ship bus tours to that beach "The Black Lung Express"

Have I done it myself? Of course I have many times before I truly realized of what can come about from it.

Take a look:

http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/the...sues?show_all=1

Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135566
07/13/2017 01:39 PM
07/13/2017 01:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,234
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Central Florida!
Totally off-topic to this subject, as a quote from that article shows:


"If you are a frequent flier for business or pleasure, should you be worried about jet fuel exposure? People who are exposed to jet fuel vapors only occasionally typically have a chance to recover between flights. For them, problems from jet fuel are likely to be minimal. But if you work at the airport, especially if you work in close proximity to planes, or you live under a flight path, the toxic effects of jet fuel pollution should be a concern for you. Here are seven facts airfield and airport workers and people who live close (within 1 mile/2 km) of airports need to know...."

Last edited by Carol_Hill; 07/13/2017 01:40 PM.

Carol Hill
Re: Someone died? [Re: LBI2SXM] #135567
07/13/2017 01:45 PM
07/13/2017 01:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 267
Maine
SXMbeacher Offline
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SXMbeacher  Offline
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Maine
I have been there when patrols have come by and drove fence people away. I have also seen them come by and flip there lights on via the beach cam. But as soon as they are gone, people go right back to the fence. Condolences to the family that lost their loved one. RIP.


Life's a beach!


[Linked Image]


Re: Someone died? [Re: LBI2SXM] #135568
07/13/2017 01:46 PM
07/13/2017 01:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,963
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Ohio
Quote
For some reason, people ignore the sign and do it anyway.


People ignore signs all the time. Signs have no way of enforcing the law or what they are intended for. We dealt with speeding cars and cars not stopping at marked crosswalks all last weekend. Unless there is actual enforcement, the sign is taken as just a suggestion.

To Bob Dot...if there could be a heavy clear barrier used as a deflector, you would still be able to see but there would be protection. Yes, it might also cut down on the number of people ($$$$$) and that is probably why it will never be implemented.


J.D.
Re: Someone died? [Re: Carol_Hill] #135569
07/13/2017 01:48 PM
07/13/2017 01:48 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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The Subject is the SXM Airport and the people who visit the beach for this activity and how injury occurred. And Carol, you say this is not related? I wasn't looking for any kind of debate really but can you honestly say or believe there isn't any risk to what I am speaking of?

Quoting the page as well:

"6. Exposure to jet exhaust is more toxic than exposure to jet fuel. The process of heating jet fuel releases an even greater variety of toxic compounds into the air."

There are many papers on this subject and its associated effect on human health, I'm not sure why this would garnish any kind of opposing argument.

Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135570
07/13/2017 02:19 PM
07/13/2017 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,234
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Central Florida!
The point is that we're talking about casual exposure for a few minutes, as opposed to a working environment. Working at an airport has to be one of the most high risk jobs for all kinds of work related injuries and illnesses. Still not really relevant to the topic at hand.


Carol Hill
Re: Someone died? [Re: Carol_Hill] #135571
07/13/2017 02:26 PM
07/13/2017 02:26 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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Ok,

Well I understand your opinion and simply disagree.
If you ever have the interest in an 80 hr class/hands-on time to go through training with a full OSHA safety certification as I have, you might have a different or more informed view.

Enjoy your day.

Last edited by SXMDeepBleu; 07/13/2017 02:30 PM.
Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135572
07/13/2017 02:31 PM
07/13/2017 02:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,234
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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And, again, work safety is not what this thread is about.


Carol Hill
Re: Someone died? [Re: Carol_Hill] #135573
07/13/2017 02:47 PM
07/13/2017 02:47 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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I'm not referring to work hazards, that is obvious. Health hazards that cannot be denied unless you have opposing information, there is none.
Direct exposure in general, no matter the amount of time. It only takes a single inhalation for a chance of a particulate to enter your lung and fester. You don't have to be working to breathe it and you are trying to tell me that standing behind a commercial jet taking off at full throttle shooting out hundreds of chemicals and carbon at an enormous rate is safe to do for short periods... Please think about this.

Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135574
07/13/2017 02:51 PM
07/13/2017 02:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 65,234
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Central Florida!
Enough. Even the link you posted stated the exposure is very small in this circumstance.


Carol Hill
Re: Someone died? [Re: Carol_Hill] #135575
07/13/2017 02:58 PM
07/13/2017 02:58 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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My link was the fastest example to show. But what you are referring to is ambient exposure in the air, not standing behind a jet taking off, even airport employees aren't allowed to do it or be dumb enough to do it. There is no Airport in the US that allows this due to EPA/FAA.
I'm done.

Re: Someone died? [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135576
07/13/2017 03:43 PM
07/13/2017 03:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Louisiana
o2bnsxm Offline
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o2bnsxm  Offline
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Louisiana
So I guess it's safe to do it if you hold your breath. Then your only concerns are keeping grasp of the fence, or getting run over by drunk/distracted drivers

Last edited by o2bnsxm; 07/13/2017 03:55 PM.
Re: Someone died? [Re: o2bnsxm] #135577
07/13/2017 04:34 PM
07/13/2017 04:34 PM
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Posts: 2,237
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LBI2SXM Offline
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Well AirFrance and an AAjet just left SXM and there had to be close to 50 people on the fence. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Re: Someone died? [Re: LBI2SXM] #135578
07/13/2017 04:43 PM
07/13/2017 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Mantas Offline
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Detroit Area
I think if they put up some sort of barrier the crowds (and $$$) would still come into the area for the landings alone.

Re: Someone died? [Re: o2bnsxm] #135579
07/13/2017 04:47 PM
07/13/2017 04:47 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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For a fully dressed person flying and exchanging planes and such is fairly safe of course. However you don't see Airport/tarmac employees wearing a bikini or board shorts no shirt and flip flops, they are wearing full jumpsuits, boots and gloves.
Its shown that the blast can kill almost instantly, but what about later down the road when something arises with you that is possibly related to exposure. This was my point.

Just consider yourself for a moment, half naked in a bathing suit in the sun with a heat index of 90, and a little glistening of perspiration and lathered with another chemical (sunscreen of course) that makes anything stick to your skin and stay there.
Your pores and eyes and nasal passages and your lungs are open and susceptible to the jet wash, a steam vapor is created which forms a mist carrying chemical cocktails that can't help but stick to you also. carbon and micro debris from rubber on the tarmac come at you at break neck speed...
I guess we could always check with a Respiratory specialist or Dermatologist and ask them on the health risks, but I would want to lay bets on their response beforehand. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast [Re: blackmercedes] #135580
07/13/2017 04:57 PM
07/13/2017 04:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,584
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Brookfield, CT.
Yes, sad but true. As far as stopping the practice of fence flying, I don't think it's gonna' happen - you just can't fix stupid. And it's not like you can build a fence or a wall there. This was a people draw forty years ago but I don't ever remember seeing people hanging off the fence back in the day.......not to say it didn't happen.

Do you think maybe this thread has gone far enough astray to close it down? Just MHO....... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast [Re: pat] #135581
07/13/2017 05:13 PM
07/13/2017 05:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
M
mmk Offline
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Perhaps an electric fence ....people would still try to do their thing. What amazes us is when a mother, father and a couple of young kids say 12 or 14 do it together. It probably generates a lot of business for doctors on island when people get sand particles etc. in their eye.

Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast [Re: mmk] #135582
07/13/2017 05:19 PM
07/13/2017 05:19 PM
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Posts: 39
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SXMDeepBleu Offline
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Google: "Airport blast fence", intended for this very thing. It is a money and publicity generating anomaly for the island, hence the new amount of tours from cruise port to the site. No way will it ever be corrected.

Re: Someone died?/Maho Jet Blast [Re: SXMDeepBleu] #135583
07/13/2017 05:32 PM
07/13/2017 05:32 PM
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Posts: 2,237
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LBI2SXM Offline
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Saw a documentary a while back and it showed the jet blast rolling over a school bus.

Re: Someone died? [Re: Bobcat] #135584
07/13/2017 05:38 PM
07/13/2017 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,458
Manhattan
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weeks5051 Offline
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weeks5051  Offline
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Manhattan
Quote
Bobcat said:
Quote
weeks5051 said:
Quote
boucharda said:
After managing an Emergency Department for MANY years I realized there can only be so much done to protect people from themselves.

Tragic event and different but similar situations occur every day everywhere

Very True. Yearly on average in the U.S. there are 20 deaths from skydiving, 90 deaths worldwide from scuba diving, and over 700 cycling deaths in the U.S. Should we try to stop people from doing these dangerous activities too?


Apples and oranges - while dangerous these activities in the hands of those trained and experienced reduce the risks - standing at the fence at Maho is simply dangerous and foolish and requires no special skill - observing the warning signs seems easy enough to me.

I disagree. Many cyclists are killed and they have no training. As a matter of fact most of those killed have no training whatsoever. The same thing goes for swimmers at a beach without lifeguards. It's a tourist attraction for a reason. All thrill experiences have an element of danger otherwise it wouldn't be a thrill. And as far as scuba divers and sky divers are concerned, even with their special training, some still die. So it IS apples and apples.

Re: Someone died? [Re: weeks5051] #135585
07/13/2017 05:47 PM
07/13/2017 05:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
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Bobcat  Offline
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Staten Island
Quote
weeks5051 said:
Quote
Bobcat said:
Quote
weeks5051 said:
Quote
boucharda said:
After managing an Emergency Department for MANY years I realized there can only be so much done to protect people from themselves.

Tragic event and different but similar situations occur every day everywhere

Very True. Yearly on average in the U.S. there are 20 deaths from skydiving, 90 deaths worldwide from scuba diving, and over 700 cycling deaths in the U.S. Should we try to stop people from doing these dangerous activities too?


Apples and oranges - while dangerous these activities in the hands of those trained and experienced reduce the risks - standing at the fence at Maho is simply dangerous and foolish and requires no special skill - observing the warning signs seems easy enough to me.

I disagree. Many cyclists are killed and they have no training. As a matter of fact most of those killed have no training whatsoever. The same thing goes for swimmers at a beach without lifeguards. It's a tourist attraction for a reason. All thrill experiences have an element of danger otherwise it wouldn't be a thrill. And as far as scuba divers and sky divers are concerned, even with their special training, some still die. So it IS apples and apples.


Cyclists do have a certain skill level, people standing at a fence do not require any - nice try... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: Someone died? [Re: Bobcat] #135586
07/13/2017 06:25 PM
07/13/2017 06:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Louisiana
o2bnsxm Offline
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Louisiana
Again, I have to repeat my earlier post, that after all this time, and all the people who have participated, this was the first fatality.
Not saying anything good or bad, but what other activity has less fatalities than fence grabbing at Maho?
I've been going to SXM for almost 15 years, and have never done it. Won't start now.
This tragic death will not prevent people from doing it, perhaps it is the "Can't happen to me" syndrome.

Last edited by o2bnsxm; 07/13/2017 06:26 PM.
Re: Someone died? [Re: o2bnsxm] #135587
07/13/2017 06:31 PM
07/13/2017 06:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
Bobcat Offline
Traveler
Bobcat  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,426
Staten Island
We go back 28 years and yes, this is the first to my memory but even one death is one too many. Story is on NBC news as I write this.


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