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Another Ugly Side to the Situation #141291
09/07/2017 08:08 PM
09/07/2017 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,660
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline OP
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ruralcarrier  Offline OP
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Ohio


J.D.
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Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141292
09/07/2017 08:14 PM
09/07/2017 08:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,039
missouri
Cathyg Offline
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missouri
i guess they don't realize that in the long run...they are hurting themselves

really sad

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141293
09/07/2017 08:39 PM
09/07/2017 08:39 PM
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Posts: 2,468
MIA
I
irina Offline
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There is wide spread looting and robbery on island. Extremely dangerous situation. Total anarchy. Police cannot control it.
Point Pirouette was told looters coming by boats. People in panic. No electric or water.
A lady I know was stopped by police because of looting in Ace on Cannegieter Street. They searched her but she had nothing. Close friend of our family.
It's a very bad situation.
So very sad. Too many tears.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: irina] #141294
09/07/2017 08:50 PM
09/07/2017 08:50 PM
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PelicanPirate Offline
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Not good but hate to say it does not surprise me...here in the midwest, we got hit by Hurricane ike remnants and knocked power out for days.......no gasoline, no atm cash dispensing.

One gas station had electricity and folks were beating people up because some folks tried to organize cars by left and right side gas tank openings.

That told me folks will turn on each other if "tough" times".............and obviously that was nothing compared to SXM

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141295
09/07/2017 09:31 PM
09/07/2017 09:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,013
Maryland/DC Metro
BeachKitten Offline
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Maryland/DC Metro
Where is that J.D.?

Earlier I saw a video of looting at the Ace in Cole Bay. People taking chairs, generators, etc and mattresses?? (next door??))

Isn't it crazy that people may need things, but are doing it wrongly...and they are on camera. But unlike the US they won't be traced.


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141296
09/07/2017 09:59 PM
09/07/2017 09:59 PM
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Posts: 252
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mmk Offline
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Unfortunately, all levels of crime have been a big problem on the island for years. That, along with a useless police police force make the island a paradise for criminals. It is never the locals. They will blame the Haitians, the Jamaicans etc. depending on the day of the week.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141297
09/07/2017 10:05 PM
09/07/2017 10:05 PM
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SXMWendell Offline
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The first thing I thought of some of the the tourist coming in the next few months. Why? Many places won't be semi inhabitable for 6 months ( or more). The whats left greenery will be dead from the salt spray in the next few days. The possible tourists will be consuming up the resources the local people need since supply ships will take time to arrive.

I came almost a year after Luis ( this hurricane is much worse) and the island was still in much dis array. It took about 3 years after Luis for the island to be "semi normal". And actually 5 years to not see effects of Luis.

Many places will never be rebuilt. THEY ARE GONE, But you can have fond memories

There will be new places BUT they will be years in coming.

Wendell

.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141298
09/07/2017 10:11 PM
09/07/2017 10:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,549
Long Island, NY
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We went back in 1997 and could not believe that the Island still needed so much rebuilding. After what I have seen this will be 5 to 10 years. The longer the tourist stay away the more "unruly" the Island may become. I don't go to Jamaica for a reason. I would hate if it's the reason that keeps us from SXM.


Rick and Grace
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: RICKnGRACE_LI_NY] #141299
09/07/2017 10:18 PM
09/07/2017 10:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,361
SXMWendell Offline
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I don't know why but some people think that in a few months everything will return to "normal".

As for the looting, these people could be helping restore the island instead they choose to do this.

Wendell

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141300
09/07/2017 10:55 PM
09/07/2017 10:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 58
Central IL
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The "normal" they knew is gone, and it will never return. There will eventually be a new "normal", for better or worse, (hopefully better), but it will be a while in coming, and it will be different. Fond memories, and promising hopes for the future of our favorite island.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141301
09/07/2017 11:06 PM
09/07/2017 11:06 PM
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Posts: 1,039
missouri
Cathyg Offline
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Wendell....We are booked for April...we come very April. I cannot even fathom not coming in April. But it will take years to rebuild....so my head says...i have to rebook a new location...but my heart is screaming NO.

I just went upstairs and looked in the closet at all the "things" we bring to SXM. All the things that make our mini suite our home...decorations....bird feeders....table cloth....you name it...a suitcase full of stuff. Stuff...stuff that makes our time there so special.

and i saw the bowl i bought just for the cat i always feed...GREY....did he survive??? oh god....i cant bear the thought they he did not make it.

My memories are beautiful...but right now...i am overcome with sadness..like i have a death in my family...and i don't know what to do next...my mind is all over the place.

I can't imagine what the residents are thinking...and how their lives are so disrupted ...and how they have lost everything. All I lost was a vacation place....my life will go on. They have nothing ....complete devastation.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: Cathyg] #141302
09/07/2017 11:27 PM
09/07/2017 11:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 211
Michigan
cathym Offline
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Michigan
I feel the same way - we come every November and April - my heart breaks for every person who lives on St. Maarten and for all of us who love to visit.

Cathy

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: cathym] #141303
09/07/2017 11:45 PM
09/07/2017 11:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 371
New Hampshire
MassExodus Offline
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Happy Birthday MassExodus  Offline
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I so badly wish I were on SXM right now with my Stihl chainsaw.
Sucks to be in New Hampshire and not able to help.


" Visions of good times that brought so much pleasure,
makes me want to go back again. "
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: BeachKitten] #141304
09/08/2017 05:42 AM
09/08/2017 05:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,660
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline OP
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Ohio
According to island friends I have personally communicated with, it is all over the island and nothing is off limits. Houses, businesses, you name it and people are looting. One of the videos I saw showed a man with a dolly-cart as he was wheeling a brand new refrigerator down the street.

You mean they ARE traced in the US?? Sorry, I do not buy that in most cases.


J.D.
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141305
09/08/2017 06:11 AM
09/08/2017 06:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 641
Colorado
sxmbeachlover Offline
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Well spoken Wendell. I was hoping to make an extra trip down before our usual time, just to put more money into the local economy, buy will wait and see.


Famous Quote from SBHonline: The best moderation is the least moderation.
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: sxmbeachlover] #141306
09/08/2017 10:07 AM
09/08/2017 10:07 AM
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Posts: 288
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jimnjudy Offline
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When you click on "looting" in the post by rural carrier there is a pic of a looter calmly walking away...RIGHT IN FRONT OF A POLICE CAR" In many countries looters are shot and killed on sight. I can't express strongly enough my total disappointment in both police forces on SXM.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: jimnjudy] #141307
09/08/2017 10:40 AM
09/08/2017 10:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,361
SXMWendell Offline
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Just heard on Lazer that looters were in Simpson Bay Resorts punching people in the face. The caller was asking for police to come. So if you are there be careful.

Wendell

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141308
09/08/2017 11:30 AM
09/08/2017 11:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,953
Vermont
sxmmartini Offline
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sxmmartini  Offline
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Not looters! Gangs, robbers, thugs!


Live your life the way you meant to live it!
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: sxmmartini] #141309
09/08/2017 11:40 AM
09/08/2017 11:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,660
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline OP
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ruralcarrier  Offline OP
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Ohio
Lots of talk about "extreme force" but words do little good. A little action would go a long way in slowing this down or stopping it.


J.D.
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141310
09/08/2017 11:46 AM
09/08/2017 11:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,659
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LBI2SXM Offline
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How did the jail hold up?? I read in the BVI their jail was destroyed and all prisoners escaped!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141311
09/08/2017 11:47 AM
09/08/2017 11:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,999
The Jersey Shore
Pan Offline
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Pan  Offline
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The Jersey Shore
I would love to see people helping each other like the Harvey survivors. To the people of SXM, now is the time to show your true character. Friendly Island or Island of Despair. It's your choice.



Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: LBI2SXM] #141312
09/08/2017 11:51 AM
09/08/2017 11:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,660
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline OP
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ruralcarrier  Offline OP
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Ohio
No idea on the jail.

A caller to Laser 101 just reported rioting is rampant with looting in Marigot. People are fighting over breaking into stores and what they can carry out. The caller also reported there are "bodies floating in a pond in French Quarter".


J.D.
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141313
09/08/2017 01:00 PM
09/08/2017 01:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 75
W
whitesands Offline
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Posts: 75
There is a video of the looting on Front street on the site
Dominica News Online. sorry I do not know how to post it here.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: whitesands] #141314
09/08/2017 01:44 PM
09/08/2017 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 606
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Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: jenniboston] #141315
09/08/2017 02:11 PM
09/08/2017 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Philly
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PKwx Offline
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Philly
This can happen anywhere in the world where a two class society exists, the have and have nots and few in between. We are the "haves", jetting in and out living in fine accommodations, eating fine foods, sipping umbrella drinks ...better then may of the islands population. For some it's not about being a robber, it's about getting my share. That's what anarchy looks like folks. The ruthless rule.

There many fine folks on SXM, have, have nots and those in between also considered these actions reprehensible and are deeply frightened. Then there are those who see the opertunity to get their share. Not saying a criminal element is not involved but we also have a mob mentality too.

I'm sure the French and Dutch military will have order as soon as they can arrive in mass.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: jenniboston] #141316
09/08/2017 02:22 PM
09/08/2017 02:22 PM
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MIA
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irina Offline
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Excellent article. Good to hear port and airport are cleared for relief efforts.
Quite dire on island.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: PKwx] #141317
09/08/2017 02:30 PM
09/08/2017 02:30 PM
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Posts: 6,953
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sxmmartini Offline
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I disagree with your have and have not theory. I know many that are not financially comfortable but are hard working good people. It is those who have everything that can turn on you when they find all their belongings gone. The ones with little don't have as much to lose. The Gangs on SXM have been growing stronger but were just fighting rival gangs. I feel the problem with gangs was never addressed by the authorities because gangs up till now were not hurting tourists.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: sxmmartini] #141318
09/08/2017 02:51 PM
09/08/2017 02:51 PM
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Posts: 7,361
SXMWendell Offline
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Bingo

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: Pan] #141319
09/08/2017 03:40 PM
09/08/2017 03:40 PM
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bobjusacoil Offline
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I haven't written here in a long time but I spent lots of time on Sint Maarten over the last 15 years because I have owned property in Oyster Pond during that time. First, I think that it is pretty easy to sit back here in the US and judge people's behavior in a complete disaster like what is going on in Saint Martin. The people are desperate and afraid and confused and without communication. I am not making excuses for the behavior of anybody taking what doesn't belong to them. We all know the difference between right and wrong but these people know what the next 6 months will bring for them and none of it is good. It's not Houston and they don't live in the US. I don't know if it would be substantially different in any other place or country similar to Saint Martin. Are some of these people truly bad people searching for an excuse to get what they want??? Of course. But my guess is that the majority are afraid and confused and uncertain and are operating out of desperation. It is what people do when they get crazy with fear. Nobody is thinking about the welfare of the island 6 months down the road or two years from now. They are only thinking about tomorrow. It is part of our human condition. It is the job of the government to restore order and to make it right. Hopefully it happens sooner than later. I don't know how I would react and I doubt that many people here know either. I hope that Saint Martin recovers as quickly as possible and that God looks over the island with a special place in his heart for everybody there. It's a great place and the people there deserve better.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMWendell] #141320
09/08/2017 03:44 PM
09/08/2017 03:44 PM
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Posts: 160
Philly
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PKwx Offline
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PKwx  Offline
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Philly
Not saying all troubles are related to a two class society but it can be a significant element. It's not just gangs it's a complex problem. Gangs result from disinfrancished groups, generally economic. It's all interrelated. Perhaps some reading on two class societies would be in order. During troubling times people and society's do un-rational things.

Don't see this behavior in St Bart's, Saba, BVIs And others. Only where there is an economically depressed population. Perhaps as part of the rebuilding there is a way to better integrate all and level the field. That benefits all.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: Pan] #141321
09/17/2017 01:57 AM
09/17/2017 01:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,765
Med/ Caribbean
sailbynight Offline
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Quote
Pan said:
I would love to see people helping each other like the Harvey survivors. To the people of SXM, now is the time to show your true character. Friendly Island or Island of Despair. It's your choice.

We drove through Rockport, TX today. Parts of it were decimated. All of it was filled with rubble.
Now, we definitely have more resources, but they didn't loot the HEB, Ace and Home Depot. Every parking lot had volunteers offering food, clothing, water, etc to anyone in need.

Not sure how and why the stores on the island were all looted, but then again, we weren't there. Hopefully things brighten up

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: sailbynight] #141322
09/17/2017 07:25 AM
09/17/2017 07:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Agreed. The Carrefour and Grand Marche made it through the hurricane, but were decimated by the looters, who took not only food, they decimated the whole store. For what?


Carol Hill
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: sailbynight] #141323
09/17/2017 08:50 AM
09/17/2017 08:50 AM
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PelicanPirate Offline
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http://www.fox13news.com/news/stores-in-houston-looted-after-hurricane-harvey

Google tells me there were many instances of looting in Texas.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #141324
09/17/2017 08:55 AM
09/17/2017 08:55 AM
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Posts: 1,321
a little right of center
2
2fingers Offline
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2fingers  Offline
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a little right of center
Seems like they have something in common.


"It's 5 o'clock somewhere!"

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Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: PKwx] #141325
09/17/2017 08:56 AM
09/17/2017 08:56 AM
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Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #141326
09/17/2017 08:56 AM
09/17/2017 08:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,631
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Central Florida!
OK, let's please not make this about 'there's looting in SXM and not in Texas'..


Carol Hill
Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #141327
09/17/2017 09:14 AM
09/17/2017 09:14 AM
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Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Mantas Offline
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There always is looting in these events in the states but there wasn't that much in Tx. Fraction of the looting and perhaps up to 50 times the affected population (100k to say 5million). I think, like PKwx, that there are many socioeconomic class reasons and the fact that the island factor (no where to go....more helplessness) contribute to the SXM issue. Also the idea that you can do something and no body is going to catch you or stop you is a factor on the island. Not so in Texas with the prevalence of firearm ownership and carry rules. From all the reports looting on the island quickly manifested itself into robbing. Could you imagine looters trying to break into hotel rooms in order to rob the people inside in Texas?

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: ruralcarrier] #141328
09/17/2017 10:09 AM
09/17/2017 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 353
South Coast of MA
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SXMBND Offline
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Quote
ruralcarrier said:
According to island friends I have personally communicated with, it is all over the island and nothing is off limits. Houses, businesses, you name it and people are looting. One of the videos I saw showed a man with a dolly-cart as he was wheeling a brand new refrigerator down the street.

You mean they ARE traced in the US?? Sorry, I do not buy that in most cases.
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: SXMBND] #141329
09/17/2017 10:57 AM
09/17/2017 10:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 278
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foreversxm Offline
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Ok its bad and looting did happen not just on SXM. But don't we all know that the media sensationalizes despair and disaster to boost its rating?? Believe what you see and not so much of what you hear unless you know first hand facts. I have read that Tourist robbed at hotel story many many times but its ONE thing after a huge event and was taken care of fairly quickly by police. Robbing is just another day in any big city and of course in Texas at times too. Main difference is in Texas you can shoot them! It was no law and chaos just after the storm but not now. I think the media has unfairly harmed the island to those that want don't know better.

Re: Another Ugly Side to the Situation [Re: foreversxm] #141330
09/17/2017 11:01 AM
09/17/2017 11:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,765
Med/ Caribbean
sailbynight Offline
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The Carrefour and Grand Marche were completely trashed by a storm called Desparation with a heavy side of Greed. Hopefully they have passed on

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