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If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... #18592
02/15/2013 09:33 AM
02/15/2013 09:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,840
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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...what would you do differently?? Maybe the answer is 'nothing', as this was such an unusual situation. I do not aspire to have ANY engineering knowledge, but lack of knowledge has not stopped many people from expounding on this situation. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> Despite the inconvenience of no a/c and little hot food, it is obvious what the 'number one' and 'number two' problems were for the passengers. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> It is my understanding that cruise ships are legally required to treat their sewage before it is disposed of in the water, so a 'low tech' solution does not seem possible. Possibly have the sewage system part of the emergency systems and put the public bathrooms (only) on a separate 'circuit' to ensure that at least all the public bathrooms are operational?


Carol Hill
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Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Carol_Hill] #18593
02/22/2013 10:01 AM
02/22/2013 10:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,533
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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It sounds like in this case they could have started other engines but chose not to. Coast guard said that was a good choice. Why not fly a team to the ship to investigate the issue and determine if the other engine can be used?

I think the single best solution is to have generators on board to run critical systems. Water, food prep and sewage.


Matt
Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: maytrix] #18594
02/22/2013 10:21 AM
02/22/2013 10:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,840
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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I guess the latest is that the engines were not actually damaged, although I don't know if they could have flown someone there to examine them or not. I think the problem is that if they did try to re-start the engines and there was a problem, the automatic fire supression system had already fired, so they couldn't use it again and if there was another fire, it would have been out of control?

I guess for newer ships, built after 2010, redundency systems are required, so I supposed the answer is, don't sail on a ship built before 2010!


Carol Hill
Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Carol_Hill] #18595
02/22/2013 12:08 PM
02/22/2013 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,221
P
PelicanPirate Offline
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PelicanPirate  Offline
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2010 being the cutoff is scary........alot of these big babies were built just prior.

seems silly their engineering dept could rig, reroute, divert electrical power.

I took Princeess ultimate ship tour and I think they even showed up backup generator which I think is by the stacks.
I want to say they clicked it on for us-loud bang noise at kick on.

I guess that is why you don't see Carnival doing around the world blue ocean cruises, they keep it close to home.

Clearly when you buy your ship you can go deluxe or bare bones

Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: PelicanPirate] #18596
02/22/2013 12:35 PM
02/22/2013 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,533
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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If the fire supression only gets one use, then perhaps they should have a way to recharge or two systems?

They did fly a generator in, so I don't see why they couldn't fly some engineers in.

Or perhaps simply better inspections and advanced alerts so they could have detected the leak and/or shut down things before a fire started.


Matt
Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: maytrix] #18597
02/22/2013 01:31 PM
02/22/2013 01:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,511
Eric_Hill Offline

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Eric_Hill  Offline

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I don't think there is anyway to recharge a supression system that is easy. Not like it is water, sort of the same thing in restaurants. When they go off, it is days before the location can open back up because it not something the restaurnat can do to fix/recharge.

I can only imagine that an engine room supression system would need, especially since you are talking a whole lot of diesel fuel.


Eric Hill
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Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Eric_Hill] #18598
02/25/2013 10:29 PM
02/25/2013 10:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,126
SXMWendell Offline
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SXMWendell  Offline
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Only time will tell with what resources were left to use AFTER a thorough investigation. And possibly made public. I am sure Carnival upper management, engineers, lawyers and to hedge the situation US Cost Guard were in the decision process on what to do. Remember the first consideration is saving lives, the passengers were uncomfortable ( different people have different levels/expectations of this) but all returned safe. And this might be why Mexico was taken out of the equation. Anyhow I guess we will see what the fine print that was accepted by the passengers is in due process.

SXM??? Wendell

Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Carol_Hill] #18599
02/26/2013 08:29 PM
02/26/2013 08:29 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 228
Caribbean
Tortola7 Offline
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Tortola7  Offline
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Caribbean
I am sure the Bahamian Coast Guard will do a proper investigation of one of their vessels and issue a report of changes to be made.....

Anyone ever see the Panamian report from the Carnival ship towed in off CA 2 years ago? I bet it was detailed and very specific... I heard that USCG wasn't allowed to investigate...but I don't have sources on that.

Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Tortola7] #18600
02/26/2013 09:06 PM
02/26/2013 09:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 66,840
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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There was a report about that incident, I'm sure, but I haven't seen it.


Carol Hill
Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Carol_Hill] #18601
02/27/2013 06:35 PM
02/27/2013 06:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 520
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Temery Offline
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Temery  Offline
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I'm deff no engineer or ship designer but could they include some type of bladder in the fresh water holding tanks kind of like how my carpet cleaner works - fresh water in the bladder, bad water in the same tub just outside of the bladder - that way they'd at least have a way of storing #1 and #2 until such a time as they can treat it before emptying into the ocean - not for use all the time when they have power etc just for emergency storage during situations such as these. (I hope I made sense how I wrote it and I have no idea how it would work large scale, works great for my little 1 gal carpet cleaner holding tank thing)

Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: Temery] #18602
02/28/2013 10:05 AM
02/28/2013 10:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,533
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Big difference between your vacuum and drinking water. I wouldn't want to drink water that was surrounded by sewage, would you?


Matt
Re: If you were a ship designer, after Triumph... [Re: maytrix] #18603
02/28/2013 01:53 PM
02/28/2013 01:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 520
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Temery Offline
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Temery  Offline
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I was thinking more along the lines of the tank that holds the flushing water...but I guess all "fresh" water could be held in 1 large tank on a ship? (seems like a diff distaster waiting to happen to me and again I'm deff no engineer or ship designer, was just a thought) =)

if I knew fresh water was surrounded by sewage water but kept seperate by a bladder and the crew were all drinking it then yes I'd drink it too esp if I had no other choice.


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