TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands "New" Mooring Balls at Cooper

10 "New" Moor-Secure balls are being installed at southern end of Manchioneel Bay. The Leonard family has the seabed leases and has allowed these balls to fall into disrepair and "disappear" over the past several years. Recently there has only been 2 of their 10 balls available for use. So although these are not new leases, they will increase the available balls at Cooper.

It is my hope that there will eventually be more balls added at Cooper and other bays to match the demand of the charter boats in the BVI.

Wonderful news. This just about replaces the capacity lost to boatyball. These balls will make a huge difference to the bvi.

Great news unless boatyball gets their hands on them!

+1...or at least contain them to the current spots around the BVI so they can be avoided

If moor secure put them in then. boatyball have them as they would not install mine due to conflict of interest

SleepyChef,

Are you saying Moor Seacure would not install your balls unless you signed with Boaty Ball?

Could it be the BoatyBall system(ie no employee has to go out and collect ) made investing in reinstalling balls a good business decision for the Leonard family?

LONG ago on TTOL, some of use stated that IF Boaty Ball could get more balls installed that would be a good benefit to charter boats. Boat Ball MAY or MAY NOT be responsible for this. HOWEVER, IF Boaty Ball does succeed in increasing the balls installed, at least have integrity to acknowledge it.

I personally would like to see more of the existing BB converted to FCFS. BUT more importantly, I would like to see more balls in existing mooring fields to balance supply and demand.

I am not a fan of advanced reservations portion of BB, but as stated previously, if it is limited to a dozen or less for the entire BVI, then no big deal.

No I am saying I asked Rusty and he said he couldn't as it would be a conflict of interest with the balls they have in the bay.

As an occasional poster here I have read a number of posts referring to the rather oddly named "Boatyball" which I assume is some other company renting out mooring balls. Nobody seems to have anything nice to say about them. What is the story here? The last two times I chartered in the BVI there was no such thing.

Go ahead and search "boatyball" - you'll have enough to read for a few hours.

yes there's been some negativity on here but there's lots of people that like them too, wife & I included, it gives you the chance to go out for a good sail and a swim and come in a bit later.

James Leonard passed away May 17, 2017. He was the owner of the 10 balls. I would guess it took some time to get these transferred to someone else in the family.

Did you pay the 432 dollar extortion fee and if not what was your secret to getting a ball at Cooper. The only way I have successfully booked a ball at Cooper was when I was home with fiber optic cable booking for a friend.

My success rate has been about 80%.

No payment for advanced access. My success rate when trying to use BB is primarily due to being logged in and selecting a ball (not necessarily the "best" ball) AND being out of sync with the typical weekend start of charter.

And only way I have booked is while on boat via TMM Charters FREE onboard wiFi.

80% at Cooper or all locations?

Ten more mooring balls at Cooper means that instead of contacting boatyball at 7:00 to 7:01 am, instead you have to call the cooper restaurant at that time to attempt to get a dinner reservation for that night!!

All locations. Pretty much the only ones I haven't gotten have been at Cooper.

Again, it helps to get out of synch with the crowds.

Off season and/or out of sync pretty much every place but Cooper is doable especially with the boatyball hole...I advise social distancing from boatyball...

If you need more info go over to Facebook where they are getting thrashed as would any business whose model annoys the majority of people.

Stay away from Cooper and Great Harbour JVD and you will be fine

just because you don't like them doesn't put you in the majority in my opinion, there are lots of us that do.

how would it be if you turned up to your charter boat at 4pm and they told you that somebody took it at 11.30am? or you got to your airline gate to be told that somebody had already got on and sat in your seat? the reservation model works.

Right now if you want a ball reserved at Cooper in the high season you have to pay 432.00 on top of the ball fee or book your boat through boatyball and pay a 15% commission. At what point would you say it doesn’t work? They will raise that rate when they start selling out. Would 1000.00 be to much for a night on a ball? Is it fair if you're on a boat that doesn’t have fast WiFi that you're excluded? Maritime rules on anchoring have always been first in last out. You also had the option of free day use for the balls. With boatyball that goes away. On our last trip we managed to get a FCFS ball when a day tripper left. We needed to swap out tanks. Once that was done we debated staying the night at Cooper. In the past we would have stayed for happy hour and dinner but not with their support of boatyball. There was a large cat with a bunch of kids onboard circling looking for a ball. We decided to go somewhere quiet and anchor so I called them on the VHF and told them we would be leaving. Would it have been acceptable for me to demand 432.00 for the ball or we would stay on it for the night?
One last critical point. The boatyball money goes straight to the US. It does not stay in or support anyone in the BVI.

Not sure how this BB bash is relevant to the new mooring balls at Cooper, I just wanted to remind new readers that the above statement is misleading. The same $30 mooring fees stays (or returns) in the BVI just like pre-BB.

It’s not misleading. Of course the ball fee stays but all the boatyball fees leave. 10 dollars on each normal booking plus the 432.00 advance booking fee or the commission on booking a boat. Where are the FCFS balls boatyball insured us they would be providing?

My two cents -

I was able to secure a ball without wi-fi from Anagada and Great Harbour. It was nice to be able to take our time on long passages, or multi-stop passages and be able to arrive in our preferred anchorage. The hope is that more FCFS balls appear in popular anchorages to even out the concern of a short stop over vs the luxury of a reserved ball. I spoke with a BB representative before our trip who echoed the same. Here's an excerpt from our conversation
"When we initially started BoatyBall, we approached certain bays and resorts with the idea of making the FCFS moorings payable with an online program and eventually, perhaps, reservable in the
future. We did not realize that the bay owners would rather have the reservable feature. Almost every bay we talked to wanted all of their moorings in the reservable program. We thought it best
if we just ran a pilot program with a limited number of moorings to see how the program unfolded.

We quickly realized that to balance the system out, more FCFS moorings were needed."


I did not do the advanced reservation service, which sounds exorbitant considering the return. Each reservation was $40, $10 of which was the service charge for BB.

Were you able to secure a ball in Cooper without WiFi and what month was the charter?

I actually dont mind the concept as I have stipulated previously...the people behind it who have been consistently at best less than genuine are what concern me. I use a "reservation model" that works and isn't cheap in DC to travel (HOT Lanes) and park (Parkmobile) so have no issue with it or paying thousands of dollars per year for it personally

If you read the many complaints, people squatting on a prereserved boatyball is a major one so your latest point isnt supported by current evidence here or elsewhere and doesnt favor boatyball

Yes, we got a ball at Cooper from Great Harbour. We chartered two weeks ago.

so 5 weeks ago we were on BoatyBalls most of the nights of our 10 night trip and we didn't pay $432 , nor would we have done. Have things changed so that you now have to pay $432 advance fee?

5 weeks ago is a slow time. The only real problem area with boatyball until they succeed in taking over more balls is Cooper island anytime and Great Harbor on Jost Friday and Saturday. During higher seasons my success rate in getting a ball at Cooper is zero and I have tried at least 10 times. I have a decent success rate at booking at Cooper for friends using very fast fiber optic internet at home. Another technique that I know is in use is having all your crew make boatyball accounts and have 6 or 7 people trying at once.
G

To someone not familiar with the payment structure, the BB fee is the $40 that shows up on your credit card. I think your statement could have been taken as none of the $40 would come back to the BVI and I just wanted to clarify for people. No offense intended; I have zero skin in this game.

George, Most companies consider February HIGH season... not "Slow Time".

for clarity, our trip was 13-23 January, $40 per BB Cooper, Great Harbour, Anegada x2, Little Jost & Sopers, ; the Sopers happened cos we couldn't get into Great Harbour first time round.

When I first posted this thread, I did not mention Boaty Ball at all!



How did it evolved to a "Boaty Ball Bashing"?
Perhaps the owner of ball access to collecting through Boaty Ball "automation" was stimulus? Perhaps not. I don't know.
BUT I thought all would admit that more balls available at Cooper would be a PLUS. And the Boaty Ball Bashers seem to support the theory that Boaty Ball was stimulus to ADDING available balls at Cooper.

But the Vocal Minority (AKA Boaty Ball Bashers) took the thread over to bash BB. And when I say MINORITY, I say that because based on the BB Sales, it seems there are many more who like BB than the Vocal Minority.

It does appear to be here as there are a sufficient number of boaters who like and use Boaty Ball. AND the owners of the balls appear to embrace the concept.


Personally, I like many aspects of Boaty Ball. AND there are some aspects of Boaty Ball that I don't particularly like.

It is not the Holy Grail.
Nor is it The Devil.

Can we at least not turn every other thread into a Boaty Ball Bashing? (I doubt it but thought I would at least ask).

BB has increased costs and limited the availability of moorings to sailors that don't have a fast internet connection. I have been sailing the BVI for 30 plus years. I have seen all kinds of changes - some good, some bad. BB is a bad addition, in my opinion.

You don't have any reliable data about who likes BB. That many sailors are afraid to be caught without a mooring use BB doesn't mean they approve of or like the system. There is no anchoring room left in many places. Many newbie sailors are afraid to anchor.

Capitalism will prevail in the end. The owners of the moorings prefer a cashless system. They signed on to BB because it provided that. In the meantime BB has increased fees that get exported to the US. When BIYC, Saba, Trellis and Sopers come fully on line the demand for moorings will equalize with capacity. We will then see how many hung over sailors want to get up at 6:59 am to do the BB dance

I was flown there that week. Things were pretty slow.
G

Deepcut-

As you know I have tremendous respect for you and think you have the coolest sailboat in BVIs despite my son going to the rival school

I also know you are a smart person...however there is a flaw and a fallacy in this argument below:

"But the Vocal Minority (AKA Boaty Ball Bashers) took the thread over to bash BB. And when I say MINORITY, I say that because based on the BB Sales, it seems there are many more who like BB than the Vocal Minority."

I have been on this board for the duration of the Boatyball talk and followed the various threads and also seen the threads on Facebook pages. The clear majority of comments are negative which isnt surprising for a system that creates failure for up to 85% of users (15/109 per BB at Cooper were successful) and is widely viewed as "rigged". So while it may be a certainly vocal group to say it is in the minority has no basis in the empirical evidence on any of the various boards. In fact BB itself made this same logical argument early on and I pointed it out to them privately which they acknowledged.

The fallacy is the implication that there is a causal inference between "sales" and "majority happiness". The economic relationship for mooring balls is considered an "inelastic demand model" due to the current lack of alternatives. Therefore people not only really have no choice, but BB can charge a premium knowing this (hence they can charge ~$400 per week version). This inelasticity is more prevalent at Cooper and Great Harbor where the majority of balls are BB and little to no room to anchor. So to state that because 15 of the 109 that attempted got balls on one particular day in Cooper are evidence that more people like it than dont is not only a far stretch but statistically speaking is a "spurious correlation".

It is clear, however, when people are given and have the choice they prefer FCFS over boatyball as evidenced by the "boaty ball hole" in the off season when the FCFS balls are taken and the BB balls remain unused.

The real issue is BB started losing the credibility game and that is one hard road to get back...

Again I have no issue with a "reservation model" that both works and is credible.