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Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum #266655
10/23/2021 07:36 AM
10/23/2021 07:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 76,706
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Link

Mercy..


Carol Hill
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Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266685
10/23/2021 10:58 AM
10/23/2021 10:58 AM
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Posts: 1,344
Finger Lakes Region and Mexico
crmoores Offline
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Yes the Pueblo area of Tulum has experienced a huge spike in violence this year, it appears to be a rival cartel vying for power. This event was most likely cartel-related against the business, but in the past it was very rare that tourists would be caught in the cross fire since that would not benefit the business or the cartel.

This year and late last year we’ve seen attacks in broad daylight, and tourists have actually been targeted in these cases. One man would not turn over his watch and was shot dead in a cafe in broad daylight. The randomness of these murders and the fact that tourists are being targeted is scary, and is more like you’d see in any large US city and not the act of a cartel punishing a business owner for not paying…


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266735
10/24/2021 06:34 AM
10/24/2021 06:34 AM
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GeorgeC1 Online content
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I spend a lot of time in large US cities. You don’t get robbed or shot inside bars and restaurants. In many US cities crime is very low. You also don’t see random murders in most US cities. Those that happen do generate big news reports.

Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: GeorgeC1] #266743
10/24/2021 07:30 AM
10/24/2021 07:30 AM
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Carol_Hill Offline OP
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I agree George. Certainly not killings in tourist areas, maybe in local areas, where tourists shouldn't be, but again, not random, with collateral damage like that.


Carol Hill
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266754
10/24/2021 10:01 AM
10/24/2021 10:01 AM
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Finger Lakes Region and Mexico
crmoores Offline
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First of all George, let me remind you that this ain’t Kansas! Lol…

But I do disagree with you…Crime is very high in most large cities. In many US cities gun violence is out of control. Even in smaller communities like ours we see continued gun violence, and the majority of these shootings are not even reported in our news outlets, just an occasional summary…

The current situation that is happening in Tulum - and nowhere else here at the moment - involve cases where a gunman walks up to someone - usually a visitor who has $$, a nice watch, whatever - and does the deed and flees. Robbery pure and simple.

Maybe I can clarify my statement -
>> The randomness of these murders and the fact that tourists are being targeted is scary, and is more like you’d see in any large US city and not the act of a cartel punishing a business owner for not paying…

And not talking about restaurants and bars, but a hoodlum walking up to you in the street or an open-air cafe in broad daylight and demanding $$ or your watch at gunpoint. One tourist refused and his watch was taken off his dead arm. That is not the cartel harassing or punishing a business for not paying.

”Indiscriminate” is more descriptive perhaps. Unnecessary, indiscriminate, random - take your pick, but these are much more scary to us and other residents and visitors because these smaller groups care nothing about the tourism $$ or tourists. They are a different breed.


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266782
10/24/2021 02:45 PM
10/24/2021 02:45 PM
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Finger Lakes Region and Mexico
crmoores Offline
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And of course the event shared here is reportedly a drug-related battle of the cartels. The initial reports claimed it was a cartel punishing a business for not aligning with them, and innocent people were slain.
That activity has been all too common in the Tulum area the last year or so. But it is very unusual to see guests attacked, as the cartel’s livelihood depends on tourism.. So that is terrifying to see happening now…There is indeed heavy competition between cartels as Tulum expands as Cancun and PDC did earlier…

The recent incidents of tourists actually being TARGETED for robbery and needlessly murdered for cash or jewelry is more like what we read about every day in the US too…thugs…

So we’re seeing both activities occurring there right now. We’re not seeing a lot of either activity in the more developed other areas, although the cartels there are definitely in charge.


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266825
10/24/2021 07:28 PM
10/24/2021 07:28 PM
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If you scroll down from the story there is a link to ABC titled Philadelphia students scared to go to school due to increased gun violence. Hmm

Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #266963
10/25/2021 08:06 PM
10/25/2021 08:06 PM
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Finger Lakes Region and Mexico
crmoores Offline
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And Chicago comes to mind when thinking about gun violence way out of control…


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #267093
10/27/2021 05:48 AM
10/27/2021 05:48 AM
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GeorgeC1 Online content
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Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: GeorgeC1] #267119
10/27/2021 09:09 AM
10/27/2021 09:09 AM
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crmoores Offline
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George this is not new news but just confirms what we’ve been discussing. The cartels are entrenched in the bigger metro areas and control most businesses. Tulum is now
a center of this activity along with day-to-day killings by plain thugs who are not part of the organized cartels.
Did you have another point for sharing the article?


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: crmoores] #267125
10/27/2021 09:29 AM
10/27/2021 09:29 AM
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Carol_Hill Offline OP
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crmoores--I certainly was not aware the violence was that widespread in that area, so it is kind of 'new news' to me.


Carol Hill
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #267132
10/27/2021 09:51 AM
10/27/2021 09:51 AM
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Finger Lakes Region and Mexico
crmoores Offline
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OK…Yes, most folks who follow the Mexico forums are aware but you would not know otherwise. Short story, cartels have been a problem for decades throughout Mexico, they do control many small businesses. Since the drug trade routes go through central Mexico (the Riviera Maya is in the Yucatán Peninsula) this area had been less impacted by this major violence. There have been instances of cartel enforcement as well as turf wars in the larger metro areas over the years (Cancun, PDC, etc), but on a much smaller scale. Cancun has had many instances of cartel-related killings recently, and there have been a couple innocent bystanders killed. But the vast majority of instances have not involved innocent bystanders. Playa has been relatively quiet. You can find good (accurate) information on some of the better travel sites.

The events in Tulum are now worldwide news…Last year Marines were sent in to regain control, that effort largely failed. Now the governor is sending in the National Guard, hopefully that helps to curb the extreme violence and protect not only business owners but visitors. This reminds us of the crime syndicates (cartels) that have extorted businesses and corrupted politicians in many US cities…

And I had asked George what his point was since he didn’t leave a comment, and I had already established the cartels were indeed entrenched in the metro areas here.

Last edited by crmoores; 10/27/2021 10:24 AM. Reason: Add comment

"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain
Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #267933
11/04/2021 08:29 PM
11/04/2021 08:29 PM
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GeorgeC1 Online content
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I spent until a year ago a lot of time in several cities in Mexico. It’s not the US and things are deteriorating rapidly. In 5 years I am not sure there will be any safe areas.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/canc-n-tourists-rush-shelter-213032640.html

Re: Two tourists killed in gang shootout in Tulum [Re: Carol_Hill] #267972
11/05/2021 12:16 PM
11/05/2021 12:16 PM
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crmoores Offline
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Yes over the past few decades tourism has spread from Cancun south to Puerto Morelos, Playa, Puerto Aventuras, and most recently Tulum. Many expats and visitors have moved further south to escape the growth. Crime and cartels have followed the $$. The cartels were here before we arrived in 2015 of course, but the first real incident that involved a cartel shooting in our area was in 2016. We were likely a bit naive over the previous 20+ years of visiting the area, but there was no real violence reported prior to 2016.

This latest violence in Puerto Morelos is the first we’ve seen of this type in that area. It has been happening in Cancun and of course Tulum…There seems to be no end in sight…


"Travel changes you. As you move through this life and this world you change things slightly, you leave marks behind, however small. And in return, life — and travel — leaves marks on you.”
-Anthony Bourdain

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