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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: warren460]
#35570
01/23/2015 07:36 AM
01/23/2015 07:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,258 Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,258
Saint Thomas, USVI
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warren460 said: I think it goes way beyond getting to and provisioning the boat. A competent yard and available services is also critical. I have no idea as to the caiiber available on st thomas. I'm sure Jay does. This is less of an issue for me obviously because I keep twenty boats running and have access to suppliers and contractors that wouldn't be readily available to the general public. That being said we have a Budget Marine, Island Marine outfitters and a good Yanmar dealer on island. Volvo not so much. As for the yard I had my boat hauled at Independent last year for bottom work. It worked out ok. If I was going to haul for Hurricane season I would go to Puerto Rico or Spanish Town, Nanny Cay is full. That has little to do with where to keep the boat for ease of use. You don't have to haul the same place you dock. St Thomas is just plain old more accessible. Better flights, more flights, less expensive flights. So if the goal is to have it in the water and ready to use then that's a no brainer. If you want it hauled while your gone then talk to Nanny Cay they have a program for that and I'm sure Evan will be along shortly to talk about it. He has done it both ways. Jay
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: TackingAg]
#35572
01/23/2015 01:31 PM
01/23/2015 01:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213 GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
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Yes, we have kept our boat in Nanny Cay, VGHY, and Compass Pt. When we were at Compass Pt, my son lived aboard and paid the slip which is much more expensive then Nanny Cay or VGYH. No offense Jay, but we just do not like Independent Boatyard. Since Jay does his own work, no problem. We have had issues with outrageous quotes for repairs. We did not want to leave the boat in the water after Greg moved off island. We were not happy with the dry dock options or rules at Independent. To recap, VGYH is the least expensive, but difficult to get to and repair options or limited. We loved Nanny Cay for so many reasons. Restaurants, chandlery, provisions, pool, hotel if needed, and generally the people are very friendly. PM with any other questions
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: CaptainJay]
#35575
01/23/2015 03:02 PM
01/23/2015 03:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
jboothe
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 252
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CaptainJay said: I pay $16.50 a foot plus utilities at Independent. Is that cost per year??
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: jboothe]
#35579
01/23/2015 04:42 PM
01/23/2015 04:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,008 Buffalo, NY
LauraTheTshirtGal
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,008
Buffalo, NY
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jboothe said: Ok. That's what I thought. If it was that annually I was going to start boat shopping in the BVI. lol I got overly excited about that as well!!!! crap <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: warren460]
#35580
01/23/2015 07:48 PM
01/23/2015 07:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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warren460 said: I think it goes way beyond getting to and provisioning the boat. A competent yard and available services is also critical. I have no idea as to the caiiber available on st thomas. I'm sure Jay does. Compass Point Marina has a Budget marine supply store and machine and wood working shop. The only thing is your draft has to be less then 6' And your only five minutes from Red Hook. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: sail445]
#35582
01/23/2015 08:16 PM
01/23/2015 08:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402 St Thomas, USVI
Kimber
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
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sail445 said:warren460 said: I think it goes way beyond getting to and provisioning the boat. A competent yard and available services is also critical. I have no idea as to the caiiber available on st thomas. I'm sure Jay does. Compass Point Marina has a Budget marine supply store and machine and wood working shop. The only thing is your draft has to be less then 6' And your only five minutes from Red Hook. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" /> I think you mean Independent not Compass Pt when describing Budget Marine and Bruce's metal shop. There are a lot of boats drawing more than 6' coming and going. You just have to know where the channel is. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: sail2wind]
#35584
01/23/2015 08:51 PM
01/23/2015 08:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402 St Thomas, USVI
Kimber
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
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Did you take your sailboat up to that little fuel dock? I usually just have the mobile fuel truck top me off when they are filling the power boats near me.
Last edited by Kimber; 01/23/2015 08:53 PM.
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: sail2wind]
#35586
01/23/2015 11:00 PM
01/23/2015 11:00 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,429 Villa Euphoria Leverick Bay, P...
mdoyle9999
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,429
Villa Euphoria Leverick Bay, P...
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Why not keep it in charter with one of the smaller companies? We bought our first charter boat with Sunsail and moved it to BVIYC for another five years. We then sold her for twice the remaining mortgage, basically getting our initial deposit back after ten years. Essentially, we sailed for 10 years for free, and our boat was always well maintained. We are now doing it all over again with TMM.
Mike "The journey is the thing." Homer
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: mdoyle9999]
#35587
01/24/2015 04:41 PM
01/24/2015 04:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909
St. John, USVI
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It was pretty nice leaving Independent Boat Yard 2 1/2 hours before our direct flight this morning. Being able to walk to Food Center and Budget Marine is great. Others hit the challenges of having work done and the higher marina cost. But, with three or four trips a year the ferry and fees stack up. But, for us the biggest advantage is having a partnership with Capt. Jay.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Coral Bay, St. John USVI
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: warren460]
#35589
01/24/2015 06:55 PM
01/24/2015 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,258 Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,258
Saint Thomas, USVI
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warren460 said: Hi Rick. Is your boat in charter? Is that what you mean by partnership? No to be clear. Rick and I own a boat together for private use. The boat is not in charter. Rick and I have been friends for a long time. Prior to buying De Life. Both of us wanted more personal use of the boat than would typically been available on a boat placed in charter. I also didn't want to put a personal boat in charter that directly competed with our owners at CYOA.
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: sail2wind]
#35591
01/25/2015 10:03 AM
01/25/2015 10:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909
St. John, USVI
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Yep, Jay and I have known each other in de islands before Jay moved down and I started sailing. Partners make owning a boat much more affordable. But, as in any relationship, it only works if every partner works at it. Jay's a great marine mechanic and his reputation speaks for itself. My contribution is more on the financial and legal management side. I also cleaned the bilges on Friday! We all have our skills.
Other folks here are members of larger partnerships with different structures. We originally planned on adding a third partner, but really don't have the need. One challenging partner can make things a lot less fun.
I seriously considered the charter ownership route and ran a lot of financial analysis on the options. Bottom line was that a refit former charter boat setup as a partnership had the best bottom line and most flexibility. Caveat that with trusted on-island partner. I'm quite pleased with the result.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Coral Bay, St. John USVI
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: mdoyle9999]
#35592
01/25/2015 11:31 AM
01/25/2015 11:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 636 Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
caribbeangirl13
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 636
Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
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Rick, we are seriously considering moving to the islands in the next few years. Have to get the twins off to college and then we will be empty nesters. Since we will still need to work, I think I would prefer to live on land at first. But...if I'm down there would want a boat for use. Your arrangement sounds like a win, win. Some questions... Did you say your boat was a charter boat prior to you buying it? If so, did you find that it was less expensive to buy a used charter boat rather than another used boat? Do you feel that the wear and tear on a charter boat is more than on another used boat? Where do you and Jay keep the boat when not in use? What do you do with it during hurricane season? Where did you purchase her? Did you rename her or stay with the same name? Sorry so many questions but starting to plan for what everyone says is my dream but, like my parents did when they "gave it all up", I call it more of a plan!
Sue s/v Ripple Leopard 40
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: caribbeangirl13]
#35596
01/25/2015 02:41 PM
01/25/2015 02:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213 GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
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We were in Compass Pt, VGYH, and Nanny Cay over the past 6 years. We are now located in St.Martin. Yes I have a partner. Together we use the boat 4-5 months a year. The best part of not chartering is we have all our dive equipment aboard, clothes, bathroom stuff, and a full bar. We can go down island for a month with carry on, unless we have a bunch of boat stuff.
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Re: Options for keeping yacht after charter
[Re: caribbeangirl13]
#35597
01/25/2015 03:33 PM
01/25/2015 03:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,909
St. John, USVI
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There's a good discussion to be had round ex-charter vs. never chartered. If I had more time I'd ride a shorter response. I'm not an expert, but I can shed some light on my experience starting naive and ending up coming home yesterday after two weeks of de life on our boat.
The boats I really do prefer for long-term cruising, like sail2wind's Beneteau 40CC, tend to have larger cabins and more storage. There's a Whitby 42 for sale on St. Thomas that I've been watching that would make a nice full-time cruiser. But, you have to be honest with yourself on your usage. We're not full-time cruisers and having full-time cruising features is going to drive up the maintenance costs.
Our usage looks like lots of weekends for Jay & Deb, lots of two-week trips for me and Sweet Christine. Both of us will frequently have guests. That starts looking like a classic 2-head/3-cabin boat pretty quickly. We challenged our assumptions, talked about all the options, looked at a lot of boats, ran the numbers and bought a very specific former Moorings boat. The usage model also means that we need to keep her in the water.
Our Beneteau 40 Oceanis was in service for three years with Moorings and was purchased out of charter by a Norwegian family that cruised the boat for a year before selling it. They did a full survey and Moorings hit every issue, down to replacing rusted clamps on fresh water fittings and putting new sails on her. I'll hand it to the Moorings phase-out crew, they'll fix everything that you point out to them.
The Norwegian owners then added a solar arch and a wee dinghy (remember the dinghy). When we did the sea trial she was extremely clean. The owner had just replaced some components, after accepting our offer, because he felt there was deferred maintenance. The attitude of the owner makes a difference. We had De Life surveyed and we had all of the issues addressed and received credits for expenses at closing. We chose to replace a few things with new rather than repaired components. The work was done before closing on the sale at the yard at Nanny Cay and we were happy with the rigger and mechanic that did the work.
We liked this model boat of all that we looked at because it had reasonable roominess, good sailing characteristics and was a good value. The Cyclades models out of Moorings you see are a pretty big quality step down. The 393s you see offered have been hard used and take a good bit of refit work and the 3-cabin version has a crowded galley. We did see a nice 393 that had been well restored, but the price reflected that.
Charter boats get a lot more use than privately owned boats. They also depreciate much faster. I'm not an expert on buying boats, but surveyors with good reputations can be a big asset. A thorough survey lets you know exactly what you are in for, but that takes time and money. There's been a lot written about a proper survey, but our surveyor did a thorough job and we really didn't have any surprises. To understand if a former charter boat is the right choice you need to look at the specific boat and the time you have to dedicate to the process. If you're going to buy a boat out of the charter fleet and you're willing to camp out and supervise the phase-out process you may get a good boat for less than other options. If you're willing to wait until low season for phase out you might get a bit more attention.
caribbeangirl13, we renamed our boat in June. The ceremony was fun and the champagne flowed. We keep her at Independent Boat Yard. One of the big reasons we chose Independent is that it is sheltered and we can keep her in the slip if there is a named storm. We (Jay) need to rig storm lines, pull the sails and the canvas off the boat. The marina does close when there is a storm threat and you have to be in the slip by the time the close or you are out of luck. Independent can also take our 6'5" draft. We used Clive at BVI Yacht Sales as our buyers' broker. The boat was in Antigua when we put an offer on her, but check out sail and survey were done at Nanny Cay. Christine and I are working our plan too. My youngest is headed off to college or a gap year doing service work in August and my older daughter has a great job and is apartment hunting.
GeorgeC1, I'd love a full-size owners cabin. We might combine our two aft cabins at some point and make a large cabin with pantry/storage. But, that's not a walk around bed. After two weeks on the boat I'm pretty comfortable with what we have. But, I'm comfortable having fewer owners and less hassles. I like Capt. Jay's quote "You don't get any more fun tickets with a more expensive boat." But, you might have more fun on a hot day if the refrigerator keeps the beer cold and can run the a/c if it starts raining.
Since we bought De Life in May we've had to do some planned maintenance - haulout/bottom paint, replaced the wee dinghy with a used dinghy, ordered a new swim ladder and replacement propeller, gas grill. Unplanned? Starter, water pump, replaced a thru hull and a transmission rebuild. We have a maintenance to do list that we're working through. I need to update it with the items from our most recent cruise.
Cheers, RickG
Last edited by RickG; 01/25/2015 03:36 PM.
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Coral Bay, St. John USVI
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