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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: TackingAg]
#66622
08/31/2015 10:18 PM
08/31/2015 10:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,439 Virginia wishing STJ
TomB
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Posts: 3,439
Virginia wishing STJ
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Catching (or not) a mooring ball can ruin a marriage... Wonder how it will do on a friendship... be easy on them CAPT!
I can see a boat hook, a pick up truck, and a ball in the new sailors future <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> Remember drive backwards so you cannot see and they have to shout the directions.
“Every time I open a bottle of wine, it is an amazing trip somewhere!” José Andrés
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: kneafseym]
#66624
09/01/2015 08:28 AM
09/01/2015 08:28 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,934 St. John, USVI
RickG
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Posts: 1,934
St. John, USVI
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We did 10 in July, with two experienced and two familiar, and were able to get by with a quick briefing at the dock on crew safety and man overboard followed by briefings as we went. I checked all ropes/knots and the Admiral checked mine, as always.
Lesson learned: show rather than tell, repetition teaches. One of our mnemonics is "Leverick=Low" for setting fenders for the fuel dock. Putting a newbie on helm is safer than having them handle sails/winches.
Fun trip!
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Coral Bay, St. John USVI - Grenada (summer)
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: kneafseym]
#66626
09/01/2015 08:49 AM
09/01/2015 08:49 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 397
jbuch02
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I think you are going to find comments about your check list from posters here on both ends of the spectrum.
I like it but I'm also obsessive about this sort of thing. My view is that the less experienced you are with the BVI waters the more pre-planning, like the stuff you want to do with your crew, you'll want to do.
I do agree with TomB that things like head familiarization may be best left to the day you board. However, the seamanship skills you list are worth going over so you can get some level of confidence with the 6 of you in handling them well.
Something I learned from a charter in July where I had 3 newbies and hired a licensed Captain to provide another set of hands and local knowledge was that don't be ashamed to take command, review important seamanship routines and drill your crew.
Russell was great in getting me to think through every aspect of planning the days route to include chart study and anchorage entry over a cup off coffee still at the anchorage or dock, things to do to ready the boat to leave the dock or anchorage and giving clear commands to your crew that include specific instruction on how to, for example, raise the main, unfurl the jib, tack and jibe.
He pointed out that newbies don't really know how and in what order to let of dock lines, take wraps on a winch and set it up to self tail. You can't just say lets go or let's launch the head sail ...... they won't know how to do that on the specific boat you're on until you teach them.
Also, before docking or picking up a ball, for example, give clear instructions on what you are going to do and what you want specific crew to do before you do it. Go slow and let the steps for a procedure unfold that way. You, as Captain, will have to notice potential problems before they happen and direct correction. Lets say, you notice the guy on the bow has the bow line that's going to be run through the mooring ball rigged over the stanchion/life lines instead of under it. You have to see that BEFORE it is a problem and correct it.
There will be some that catch on really quickly and some that won't - the watchers and doers - and, yeah, no yelling. A good Captain NEVER raises his voice. He's so far ahead of the game he doesn't have to.
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: TackingAg]
#66627
09/01/2015 09:10 AM
09/01/2015 09:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,493 VIRGINIA
BEERMAN
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I agree with Kneafseym, if you go into too much detail I think some eyes may glaze over for the first timers. Sounds like you'll have one real first mate, he will be your go to guy and can help instruct grabbing mooring balls and setting up dock lines and fenders once in the islands. Safety on the boat would be my focus, demonstrating a MOB is a good idea so they know what to expect in an emergency. Understanding hazards is important and their extra eyes can help you, lines in the water, where not to be when tacking, securing everything before heading out, alerting of boat traffic, always making sure the Skipper is properly hydrated! Go out and have a great team building day and consider keeping it casual, have them raise/lower the sails, explain points of sail so they understand why you can't always sail straight to your destination, have them assume the helm, they'll be hooked! What boat are you chartering?
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: kneafseym]
#66630
09/01/2015 02:31 PM
09/01/2015 02:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 200 SF Bay Area
OneEyedJack
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Posts: 200
SF Bay Area
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kneafseym said: my enthusiasm level would drop very low for that trip if I had to do that orientation for 6 hours. I don't know what type of boat you are chartering or orienting people on, but that can make a big difference.
I have guests help me all the time, instruction takes minutes and it is pieced out during the week when you figure out who are the helpers and who are the sit and watch.
If they don't know each other just gather for a relaxing sail, you will learn and observe from their behavior who to instruct. ^^^This! Way too much detail for many people. Teach those that want to learn as you go along. You run the risk of coming off as a control freak by having too much information dumped. You have one experienced crew mate, the two of you can handle all aspects of the boat handling. The message I would relay to your newbie crew is that safety of the crew and boat are the primary concerns. You want to remember the cruise for the right reasons.
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: CanadianSailor]
#66632
09/01/2015 04:36 PM
09/01/2015 04:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Regarding the head, best way to avoid issues is to open it once you are under way as far from land as possible (consider the current as well) and then close it prior to heading into an anchorage.
We typically open it, let it drain (just give it a minute or so) and then close it, so its never left open.
CanadianSailor is right on about it not being a cruise - that is important. There's no one to clean up except those on board!
And expectations are also important - We had one couple come with us one time and the husband had been before, but his wife hadn't. Her expectations were a little different from reality. I think she expected to sleep with the hatches open and hear the waves..etc, but it was October with periodic showers and it was hot so we ran the A/C at night. So setting expectations is always important. She did have a fun time, it was only marred by the sea lice that gave her an awful rash making it very uncomfortable for her - they spent their last couple of nights at Scrub Island and went home a day early because of it.
Last edited by maytrix; 09/01/2015 04:37 PM.
Matt
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: sail2wind]
#66636
09/01/2015 07:55 PM
09/01/2015 07:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,934 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,934
St. John, USVI
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On holding tanks, we had the three youngest kids responsible for holding tanks while we were out with our crew of 10. They ran through the boat like winged monkeys and emptied the holding tanks whenever we were offshore. That led to a funny lesson learned about opening the tanks while downwind.
I had to "remind" crew a few times about not being between the boat and anything else. Its scary to see crew try to fend off a downwind piling even though there is a well placed fender between their hand and the piling. A quick yank and a visual demonstration corrected that young crew fast.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Coral Bay, St. John USVI - Grenada (summer)
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#66639
09/01/2015 09:56 PM
09/01/2015 09:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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I've never seen a moorings boat with the holding tanks zip tied.
Evan - they aren't guests.. they are crew <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> I think as long as the person opening/closing knows what to do, that it shouldn't be a problem having someone else do it. Just make sure everyone knows where it is..
The charter we just did with Beerman, he thought the port side had two tanks.. each time he was opening and closing two vales. No harm done as the valve that was NOT a holding tank was just another exhaust for the generator that went under the hull - I noticed it as I was coming back to the boat one time in the dinghy with the generator running and I saw no water coming out.. Thought we had an issue, but I eventually figured it out.
Matt
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: maytrix]
#66640
09/01/2015 11:17 PM
09/01/2015 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414 Memphis, TN
beerMe
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Memphis, TN
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TrackingAg,
I think you've got "the right stuff" and the crew is lucky to have you as their skipper.
A little about how to handle MOB (especially if it's the captain) and after that I'd make sure no one thinks they can stop a big boat by getting any part of their body between it and a dock. Also watch out for lines and fingers in winches or cleats, anything around a moving anchor chain, or releasing a cam cleat before depowering the forces with a few wraps on the winch. Make sure they know that your name is on the deposit and you have the experience, if you find yourself in a high stress situation make sure they know you are in command and that is not a good time to come to a consensus.
Other than that I'd do some setting of expectations and some thinking about crew dynamics - sometimes that can be a challenge.
I've learned a lot from Captain Ron like making sure they know to watch out for the gorillas when walking in the jungle.
Life involves risks, take some prudent ones (NOT with the BVI ferries)!
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: beerMe]
#66642
09/02/2015 12:27 PM
09/02/2015 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 50 Illinois USA
Blueprint
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 50
Illinois USA
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As a former certified sailing instructor and frequent charter/weekender/racer and Coastie with a mix of newbie crew I would recommend covering safety until they can repeat it back. Nothing else really matters.
When I have been able to prep the crew in advance, I have found that calling it a sailing orientation cruise keeps it light and lowers expectations and anxiety.
After that, I give them an overview demonstration of what I'm doing and tell them that I will teach them as much or as little about boating/sailing/seamanship as they are desiring to learn, but there is no obligation to do so. They will learn best by doing.
That being said, my stink boat buddy and I had a 4 hour discussion on nothing but mainsail shape, trim and changing gears. The other sailing newbies left after the first 10 minutes.
Don't have a sail plan that counts on the newbies for anything and be prepared for you and your experienced crew to do or direct absolutely everything. Both of you should be on deck at all times while underway.
Let the newbies know that they are not being relied upon to do anything related to the sailing in order to remove some stress. If they do want to participate, talk them through it before, have them repeat it back, and then talk them through it during the action.
Just my .02
(\_ ..(\_ .....(\_ .. .(\_ ...(\_ . (\_ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ A man with a plan is a better man than a better man without a plan.
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: Pvgreg]
#66644
09/02/2015 12:30 PM
09/02/2015 12:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Pvgreg said: That was the Tortolla base. There was never any instruction about the holding tank use. Again I was appauled. Hopefully that has changed since 2013. We've been chartering out of Tortola since 2009. Never seen that before. We've always been told to use the holding tanks and asked if they are empty on return. I wonder if that boat was brand new and that was done for the trip to the BVI? That's about the right timing for the 3900's I think. Was there no mention of the holding tanks during the briefing? Did you raise any questions about it?
Matt
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: sail2wind]
#66648
09/02/2015 02:06 PM
09/02/2015 02:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214 Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,214
Toledo, OH, USA
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sail2wind said: regarding the head again, I honestly do not believe it is your guests responsibility to open or close the holding tanks. This should be the function of the Captain. There is still a charter company, not to be named, that does not encourage the use of holding tanks. Unfortunately, I know of 4 charter companies that do not allow you to use the holding tanks.
Colleen
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: Orange_Burst]
#66649
09/02/2015 04:48 PM
09/02/2015 04:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 91 Maryland
SteveInMD
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Traveler
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Posts: 91
Maryland
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Orange_Burst said:
Unfortunately, I know of 4 charter companies that do not allow you to use the holding tanks. This info would definitely help me decide which charter companies to use in the future! I don't want to break the rules here. Can the company names be posted, or if not, can you PM me?
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: SteveInMD]
#66650
09/02/2015 04:55 PM
09/02/2015 04:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Personally, I think it should be posted. Maybe it would get the companies to change their policy. I've heard of one, but since it isn't first hand, I'm not going to post it.
What I can tell you is that moorings and sunsail promote the use of holding tanks and have working holding tanks.
Matt
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: Pvgreg]
#66654
09/03/2015 12:16 AM
09/03/2015 12:16 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 397
jbuch02
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Posts: 397
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I think before we go nutz about this, someone with some environmental engineering skills, if there is anyone, and local knowledge should speak up.
First, let me say, I'm not in favor of overboard discharge of black water accept under very strict circumstances. I do know that yachts, in general, are not the major source of water pollution. Politically they are an easy target but the reality is, as I understand it, yachtsman are a very small contributor, if they even contribute at all, to E. Coli pollution of the world's waters. There are a ton of other water pollutants but E. Coli and all the Coliform species attendant to a direct discharge from a head or from holding tanks aboard a yacht are the one's we're discussing if I understand this thread.
Of course, there might be exceptions to this sweeping statement and I acknowledge that. For example, the discharge of Black Water in slow moving harbors where a lot of yachts might be moored or docked is clearly unacceptable.
I have heard that the BVI with the high water circulation attendant to the environs of the Drake Channel are not particularly susceptible to E. Coli pollution to the extent that the concentration gets high enough to pose a treat.
OTH, I don't know for sure if the BVI government is just being lazy about introducing environmental measures that should have been introduced. I'm pretty sure there is no significant restrictions to discharging Black Water and from what I understand, its just common sense ..... obviously, don't do it in a crowded anchorage; wait instead until you are a good ways away then have at it.
I'm also unaware of any pump out stations that don't just "recycle" the sewage right back in to the local sea water after, maybe, some treatment with chemicals but to what degree and under what regulations, I have no idea. Nor am I aware that land based sewage treatment is as Pvreg describes. I think its treated pretty thoroughly before it is discharged. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe someone else with local knowledge about BVI sewage treatment in general can enlighten us here.
Bottom line, this may a pretty complex problem worth worrying about or not worth worrying about. I'd like more information before we post a list of charter companies who may not encourage the use of Holding Tanks.
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Re: New Crew Introduction
[Re: jbuch02]
#66656
09/03/2015 08:40 AM
09/03/2015 08:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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jbuch02 said:Bottom line, this may a pretty complex problem worth worrying about or not worth worrying about. I'd like more information before we post a list of charter companies who may not encourage the use of Holding Tanks. I don't see why we need any more info - its not about encouraging its use - its about preventing its use - as I understand it, there are some companies that keep the holding tanks locked open so everything direct flushes. Not much to discuss here - either its a huge inconveinence for the charter guests as they have to go ashore to take care of business or they just do it on the boat and direct discharge - Gotta go at 2am - who's going to make the trip to shore? And there isn't even the option in all locations to do that.
Matt
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