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Re: Flare guns
[Re: sail2wind]
#67386
09/08/2015 12:11 PM
09/08/2015 12:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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I don't think the law was ever truly meant to exclude them. You can have flares without a flare gun though. Boat's weve been on have all had flares, but no gun.
Matt
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: warren460]
#67388
09/08/2015 02:25 PM
09/08/2015 02:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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Most of the pistol type marketing junk sold at very low in cost in marine stores may get you past a USCG inspection but offer little help at night calling for help. The altitude is too low, with too little lumens, for way too short of time. If you ever want to call for help you should have a number of SOLAS devices coupled with at least one waterproof handheld VHF. Flares that work when your life depends on it!There are also a number of YouTubes on how to convert your cheap flare pistol into a actual handgun. Shoot you flare pistol next New Years or 4th of July then throw it away and get some proper marine signal devices.
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: warren460]
#67389
09/08/2015 02:27 PM
09/08/2015 02:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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warren460 said: Whether it was meant to exclude the flare guns or not, the police had said that they would enforce the no flare gun law which incidentally seems to have had a minimum jail term of 5 years. Interesting - I hadn't seen that. I imagine it would have been thrown out eventually. Police have no choice but to enforce the law.
Matt
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: sail2wind]
#67391
09/08/2015 04:36 PM
09/08/2015 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Posts: 1,049
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sail2wind said: has anyone been arrested for flare guns? probably not, any private boat owner is required by USCG to carry them. We were inspected last fall and they definitely checked the flares and dates. The USCG requires flares... Not FLARE guns. There are several options for signal devices that do not require the actual(in most cases worthless) flare gun. The following illustrates the variety and combination of devices which can be carried in order to meet the requirements: Three hand-held red flares (day and night). One hand-held red flare and two parachute flares (day and night). One hand-held orange smoke signal, two floating orange smoke signals (day), and one electric distress light (night only). All distress signals have distinct advantages and disadvantages. No single device is ideal under all conditions or suitable for all purposes. Pyrotechnics are universally recognized as excellent distress signals. However, there is potential for injury and property damage if not properly handled. These devices produce a very hot flame and the residue can cause burns and ignite flammable materials. Pistol launched and hand-held parachute flares and meteors have many characteristics of a firearm and must be handled with caution. In some states they are considered a firearm and prohibited from use. There are a number of places where getting caught with a flare GUN could cause those aboard legal issues. It is best to never have those on a boat. One of these could lead to your arrest on firearm charges...
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: sail445]
#67396
09/08/2015 08:39 PM
09/08/2015 08:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Posts: 1,049
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sail445 said: The flare gun is an efficient and safe form of launching a flare and should be used before a hand held unit. That is what the marketing folks would have you think. Reality is the guns are worthless plastic junk that deliver a very low quality signal. If you ever need to use flares to signal distress or collision warning you want pyrotechnics that meet SOLAS standards. All the quality SOLAS solutions are handheld. If you do not believe me get one of those plastic cap guns and go shoot it off at a park one night. Here are the spec to meet or beat: The rocket shall, when fired vertically, reach an altitude of not less than 300 m. At or near the top of its trajectory, the rocket shall eject a parachute flare, which shall: .1 burn with a bright red colour; .2 burn uniformly with an average luminous intensity of not less than 30,000 cd; .3 have a burning period of not less than 40 s; .4 have a rate of descent of not more than 5 m/s; and .5 not damage its parachute or attachments while burning.
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: rhans]
#67397
09/08/2015 08:50 PM
09/08/2015 08:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Posts: 1,049
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rhans said: Come on – take a breath. There are 2 common flare guns. The 12ga. = barely legal – but legal The 25 mm = Beats the heck out of handhelds and is usually para style.
Can we close this thread now? None of the 25mm meet the SOLAS standards. There is also the issue of a single pistol or firing tool. In the dark, rough water, confusion of the disaster.. they can fail, corrode or simply get dropped into the sea. That is why the knowledgeable and prudent mariner stocks his disaster grab bag and life raft with single use handheld SOLAS certified flares. It you want to get current or up to speed with this kind of stuff consider taking the next Safety at Sea seminar at your local yacht club. For skippers the "Hands On" is the way to go. http://www.ussailing.org/education/safety-at-sea/ Link Safety at Sea Seminars
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: StormJib]
#67398
09/08/2015 10:12 PM
09/08/2015 10:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 198 SW Florida
CptCook
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 198
SW Florida
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StormJib said:None of the 25mm meet the SOLAS standards. There is also the issue of a single pistol or firing tool. In the dark, rough water, confusion of the disaster.. they can fail, corrode or simply get dropped into the sea. That is why the knowledgeable and prudent mariner stocks his disaster grab bag and life raft with single use handheld SOLAS certified flares. It you want to get current or up to speed with this kind of stuff consider taking the next Safety at Sea seminar at your local yacht club. For skippers the "Hands On" is the way to go. http://www.ussailing.org/education/safety-at-sea/ Link Safety at Sea Seminars So Stormjib......nice to see that you have done some research and have come to decisions for yourself. And I agree with some of the things you have said. That said, you are taking a rather strong tone with others opinions here. Just because you are right doesn't mean I am wrong!(old proverb) Your opinions seem to be based on theory. Nothing wrong with that. Let me share a real life experience that refutes at least one of your theories. I was forced to land my helicopter in a very remote area. I was unable to make any radio calls once on the ground. My unit launched 4 other helicopters to try and find me. As they got closer to me, close enough for me to hear them and later see them, I started to launch SOLAS specification parachute flares. 6 of them. The other crews never saw any of the flares. The flares were too high. The crews were looking down at the ground, you know, sort of like at sea level. The flares burned for their specified times, but burned out above the rescue crew's field of vision. They didn't see me until I lit a smudge fire at ground level. So maybe some of those low opening flare gun flares you are deriding might have an application somewhere, sometime! Make your own decisions, make them work for yourself, share what you know to be fact with others in a polite way, and leave them to make their decisions based on their needs, knowledge, and experiences. For the record, on the boat I carry some of each of the above, hand held, SOLAS approved, Orion flare gun, and some military surplus pin flares.
"Be a Traveler, not a tourist!"
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: Twanger]
#67403
09/09/2015 03:42 PM
09/09/2015 03:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 198 SW Florida
CptCook
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 198
SW Florida
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Twanger said: Nicely said StormJib! Agreed, a very polite and informative explanation.
"Be a Traveler, not a tourist!"
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: StormJib]
#67404
09/09/2015 05:44 PM
09/09/2015 05:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 402 St Thomas, USVI
Kimber
Traveler
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Posts: 402
St Thomas, USVI
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Another USCG approved option I didn't see in your list is this https://siriussignal.com I would rather have a signaling device that lasts hours rather than quibble over seconds. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Flare guns
[Re: Kimber]
#67405
09/09/2015 06:06 PM
09/09/2015 06:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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Kimber said:Another USCG approved option I didn't see in your list is this https://siriussignal.com I would rather have a signaling device that lasts hours rather than quibble over seconds. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> I would call that all your eggs in one basket. The sirius may work just fine if someone is nearby and looking for you? The rocket flares are much more effective calling attention to you from anyone even glancing in the direction of the brilliant red high altitude signal. SOLAS rockets, smoke, handheld flares are also very visible in the daylight. The key is a complete SOLAS signal kit containing a combination of the signals. You want to be able to alert anyone glancing in your direction, anyone on the surface looking for you, anyone in the air looking for you. You want to be equipped for that day and night in all weather.
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