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Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: daveb7] #72034
10/23/2015 07:21 AM
10/23/2015 07:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
S
soualigacapt Offline
Traveler
soualigacapt  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
Quote
daveb7 said:

People blocking roads are breaking the law. A couple of buses and a dozen Gendarmes could have solved the problem in an hour.


Do you know for a fact that there was no permit for the demonstration. How do you know is was illegal. Do you know the laws in France? What would a couple of buses have done. Plowed through the protesters? And 12 gendarmes against 100's of protesters. Who do you think will win and what will the consequences have been. Unfortunately violence by either side would not have solved anything and I for one am glad that the protest ended peacefully and things got back to normal with no one getting hurt. It is a good example that St. Martin can have a protest without it turning into a riot and looting.

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Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Carol_Hill] #72035
10/23/2015 07:21 AM
10/23/2015 07:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 245
Okanagan Valley, BC, Canada
J
jaxon60 Offline
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jaxon60  Offline
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J
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 245
Okanagan Valley, BC, Canada
I read the 1 to 1 threads all the time. I still don't understand why the Euro would stop people from visiting. But then, I am Canadian and used to dealing in currencies other than our own so maybe that is why I don't get it.



[Linked Image]


Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: jaxon60] #72036
10/23/2015 07:37 AM
10/23/2015 07:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,001
Cape Cod
whammy Offline
Traveler
whammy  Offline
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Posts: 1,001
Cape Cod
This gave me some more information about the situation-

http://www.smn-news.com/st-maarten-st-ma...ee-members.html

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: soualigacapt] #72037
10/23/2015 07:47 AM
10/23/2015 07:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
Traveler
boucharda  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
I have been an unwilling participant (victim) of strikes (AIr France) and protests (cabs)in France and the potential for angst is included with every trip. It is VERY common and accepted and sometimes (mostly) announced before hand. I never thought it would be the same here.

Cruise passengers are one thing and it will be interesting to see if they actually held ships for 10-20 that didn't make it.

Airlines are another issue....it would sour me permanently if I left the French side to catch an afternoon flight home and ended up missing that flight and having to find another place to stay. Selfish? Of course...but word WILL get out. A traveling friend of mine who has never benn to SXM sent me this:

Quote
> From: <BridgetownACS@state.gov>
> Date: October 22, 2015 at 3:25:34 PM EDT
> Subject: Security Message for U.S. Citizens: Protests in French St. Martin
> Reply-To: <BridgetownACS@state.gov>
>
> United States Embassy in Bridgetown, Barbados
>
> Security Message for U.S. Citizens: Protests in French St. Martin
>
> October 22, 2015
>
>
>
>
>
> The U.S. Embassy to Barbados and the Eastern Caribbean has received reports of protests on French St. Martin and therefore alerts U.S. citizens to take caution if traveling in or to the island.
>
>
>
> The U.S. Embassy has received reports that protesters in St. Martin have shut down all road access to the city of Marigot and to Grand Case Airport. Protesters have reportedly threatened violence if their demands are not met.
>
>
>
> Even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence without warning. Avoid areas of demonstrations, and exercise caution if in the vicinity of any large gatherings, protests, or demonstrations.


.I never though mob rule would be called a good thing by anyone...but, wrong again

Last edited by boucharda; 10/23/2015 07:49 AM.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: soualigacapt] #72038
10/23/2015 07:48 AM
10/23/2015 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Barbara Offline
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Barbara  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Quote
soualigacapt said:
Quote
daveb7 said:

People blocking roads are breaking the law. A couple of buses and a dozen Gendarmes could have solved the problem in an hour.


Do you know for a fact that there was no permit for the demonstration. How do you know is was illegal. Do you know the laws in France? What would a couple of buses have done. Plowed through the protesters? And 12 gendarmes against 100's of protesters. Who do you think will win and what will the consequences have been. Unfortunately violence by either side would not have solved anything and I for one am glad that the protest ended peacefully and things got back to normal with no one getting hurt. It is a good example that St. Martin can have a protest without it turning into a riot and looting.


JUDGING WITHOUT KNOWING THE FACTS...Some of the online comments I read from tourists condemning the protest action made me heartsick. Their attitudes were ignorant with no understanding of the situation at all. All I kept hearing is these people should realize how much they are damaging tourism.Unfortunately what some tourists want is a fairy tale island where real problems do not occur. The remarks yesterday from some of them showed their true colours and it was not pretty.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72039
10/23/2015 08:01 AM
10/23/2015 08:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 186
J
JulieandKarl Offline
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JulieandKarl  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 186
These tourist complaints are disheartening. Protests call attention to problems actual residents and property owners have. It's not about you and your inconvenience, complaining tourists.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: JulieandKarl] #72040
10/23/2015 08:10 AM
10/23/2015 08:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
Traveler
boucharda  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
Everyone affected or potentially affected has the right to express their opinion (a.k.a "complain"). The protesters do not own the complaining rights ...'

Last edited by boucharda; 10/23/2015 08:11 AM.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: jaxon60] #72041
10/23/2015 08:21 AM
10/23/2015 08:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
Read the "Did I get taken" thread, for goodness sake?? A lot of people would prefer not to have to worry about whether they are getting a good exchange rate, what to tip on the French side, etc., etc., etc.


Carol Hill
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Carol_Hill] #72042
10/23/2015 08:29 AM
10/23/2015 08:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
Traveler
boucharda  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,521
Massachusetts
I think they meant the exchange rate as a global thing rather than how certain establishments effect that rate.

So $1.11 Euro won't affect my decision but staying or eating somewhere that charges $1.36 might.

Not the tool (Euro) but the process (consumer actual cost).

I agree though it would not keep me from the Island but WOULD keep me from some establishments...totally different

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: boucharda] #72043
10/23/2015 08:41 AM
10/23/2015 08:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
Right, that's what I meant by saying it's less of an issue now. You said it much better than I did.


Carol Hill
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: boucharda] #72044
10/23/2015 08:54 AM
10/23/2015 08:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 245
Okanagan Valley, BC, Canada
J
jaxon60 Offline
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jaxon60  Offline
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J
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 245
Okanagan Valley, BC, Canada
I totally agree with what you say... regardless of the prevailing rate of exchange. The consumer should know the prevailing rate and act accordingly when making their shopping choices (including the decision to travel to that country - much like many Canadians who are not traveling to the US at the moment).

But the fact that a country prices in their own currency should not deter a person from traveling to that destination.



[Linked Image]


Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72045
10/23/2015 08:58 AM
10/23/2015 08:58 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,116
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
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Snorkeller  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,116
Virginia
Barbara - I would be inclined to support your view of any of this kind of thing because you are there and your general common sense. Let's not get too carried away, however. Of course there are laws that could be enforced against blocking a road. The gendarmerie would of course remove a blockade of a highly traveled road put up by a some group or gang with some individual grievance. What happened yesterday was a substantial political protest and it was handled politically by all concerned, including the Prefet. The protesters were part of a politically sophisticated and well organized group who were not thought (with good reason) to present any threat of violence or any threat of blocking emergency vehicles (although they were willingly taking the risk that some kind of tragedy might occur). I personally doubt that yesterday will have an adverse effect on tourism, but if it becomes a common mode of political expression on both sides, it will have an adverse effect on tourism - on a macro level, probably more of a threat to Dutch side than French.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Carol_Hill] #72046
10/23/2015 09:06 AM
10/23/2015 09:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311
daveb7 Offline
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daveb7  Offline
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Posts: 311
Water pressure low today, can't wash my hair let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Too much seaweed on the beach, lets go out to the N7 and block traffic. Wifi way to slow today let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Let's raise the minimum wage to 40 bucks an hour by blocking traffic on the N7.
Any form of civil disobedience that delays or prevents emergency vehicles from responding to emergencies is illegal in all civilized countries.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: daveb7] #72047
10/23/2015 09:16 AM
10/23/2015 09:16 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 439
Central Coast, CA
C
cruzer Offline
Traveler
cruzer  Offline
Traveler
C
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 439
Central Coast, CA
Quote
daveb7 said:
Water pressure low today, can't wash my hair let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Too much seaweed on the beach, lets go out to the N7 and block traffic. Wifi way to slow today let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Let's raise the minimum wage to 40 bucks an hour by blocking traffic on the N7.
Any form of civil disobedience that delays or prevents emergency vehicles from responding to emergencies is illegal in all civilized countries.


Looks like this topic has now descended into silliness. The matter is not as trivial as you seem to believe.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Carol_Hill] #72048
10/23/2015 09:37 AM
10/23/2015 09:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,892
Maryland/DC Metro
BeachKitten Offline
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BeachKitten  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,892
Maryland/DC Metro
A Herald article is making things clearer as well. They were allowing emergency vehicles through.

https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/52985-collectivite-bows-to-pressure-restarts-plu-process


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: daveb7] #72049
10/23/2015 10:02 AM
10/23/2015 10:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,052
Washington, DC/SXM
Angelface Offline
Traveler
Angelface  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,052
Washington, DC/SXM
Quote
daveb7 said:
Water pressure low today, can't wash my hair let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Too much seaweed on the beach, lets go out to the N7 and block traffic. Wifi way to slow today let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Let's raise the minimum wage to 40 bucks an hour by blocking traffic on the N7.
Any form of civil disobedience that delays or prevents emergency vehicles from responding to emergencies is illegal in all civilized countries.


I'm sure this thread will get shut down soon. This is a very ridiculous comment (I'm not calling you ridiculous, I don't know you. But your comment is). I actually took the time to read up and talk to people to see what the protest was all about, because my first reaction was "well, this is NOT a good idea." But once I got the facts, I fully support what they did.

They let emergency vehicles and police thru
They never threatened violence (far as I could see, that was just a rumor)
Their cause was just.

I wouldn't support this type of action for any old grievance, but for this? Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now, if I were on vacation, would I be upset? Yes. But I would get over it. Because I have empathy, and I don't just see the local populace of a place I visit as nice people to look at or nice people who are there to simply serve me. What's happening right now is BS and if you think that things wouldn't get worse on the island if this PLU went thru, I have a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Angelface] #72050
10/23/2015 10:52 AM
10/23/2015 10:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,417
Rhode Island
RonDon Offline
Traveler
RonDon  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,417
Rhode Island
What's that saying? When life hands you lemons make lemonade.

Some posters here did just that and seem to have had a great time ---Orient Beach and made it back to their lodging by 8pm. And they now have something other than the weather to talk about.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Angelface] #72051
10/23/2015 11:06 AM
10/23/2015 11:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 311
daveb7 Offline
Traveler
daveb7  Offline
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Posts: 311
The point I was trying to make is where do you draw the line on civil disobedience that disrupts the lives of residents and businesses. I'm sure there are many residents/groups on Saint Martin that have concerns and would like to have their voices heard. What if they decide that blocking the N7 in Marigot and Orleans is the way to get the government's attention.
Who decides which cause is legitimate enough to bring the island to a standstill.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: daveb7] #72052
10/23/2015 11:35 AM
10/23/2015 11:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Mantas Offline
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Mantas  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
I'm glad they were letting emergency vehicles through....my point would be what if it was just normal resident of the island was in a car with an infant bleeding profusely/having a severe allergic reaction/etc that needed urgent medical attention and didn't have a cell phone.....would they be able to get through without a major delay in order for urgent life saving treatment?

I'm not at all against protests but a method that could put residents at risk seems ill advised. I personally don't think that one has to necessarily live in a certain place in order to criticize this practice. By the logic of some in this thread you wouldn't be able to criticize another country for any domestic practice such as severe human right violations because you don't live there and don't understand.

Last edited by Mantas; 10/23/2015 11:36 AM.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Angelface] #72053
10/23/2015 11:42 AM
10/23/2015 11:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Barbara Offline
Traveler
Barbara  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Quote
Angelface said:
Quote
daveb7 said:
Water pressure low today, can't wash my hair let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Too much seaweed on the beach, lets go out to the N7 and block traffic. Wifi way to slow today let's go out to the N7 and block traffic. Let's raise the minimum wage to 40 bucks an hour by blocking traffic on the N7.
Any form of civil disobedience that delays or prevents emergency vehicles from responding to emergencies is illegal in all civilized countries.


I'm sure this thread will get shut down soon. This is a very ridiculous comment (I'm not calling you ridiculous, I don't know you. But your comment is). I actually took the time to read up and talk to people to see what the protest was all about, because my first reaction was "well, this is NOT a good idea." But once I got the facts, I fully support what they did.

They let emergency vehicles and police thru
They never threatened violence (far as I could see, that was just a rumor)
Their cause was just.

I wouldn't support this type of action for any old grievance, but for this? Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now, if I were on vacation, would I be upset? Yes. But I would get over it. Because I have empathy, and I don't just see the local populace of a place I visit as nice people to look at or nice people who are there to simply serve me. What's happening right now is BS and if you think that things wouldn't get worse on the island if this PLU went thru, I have a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.


<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" />

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Mantas] #72054
10/23/2015 11:52 AM
10/23/2015 11:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Barbara Offline
Traveler
Barbara  Offline
Traveler
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Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Quote
Mantas said:
I'm glad they were letting emergency vehicles through....my point would be what if it was just normal resident of the island was in a car with an infant bleeding profusely/having a severe allergic reaction/etc that needed urgent medical attention and didn't have a cell phone.....would they be able to get through without a major delay in order for urgent life saving treatment?

I'm not at all against protests but a method that could put residents at risk seems ill advised. I personally don't think that one has to necessarily live in a certain place in order to criticize this practice. By the logic of some in this thread you wouldn't be able to criticize another country for any domestic practice such as severe human right violations because you don't live there and don't understand.


Nobody was put at risk. and before, any of us criticizes any one else in another country, we need to have our facts straight. There was a lot of criticism expressed by people who had no idea..and still don't.... what was going on.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72055
10/23/2015 12:04 PM
10/23/2015 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Mantas Offline
Traveler
Mantas  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
So you would be able to easily get through the traffic and protesters/blockade if there was a personal medical emergency and without being slowed down when compared to a normal day?

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Mantas] #72056
10/23/2015 12:05 PM
10/23/2015 12:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Barbara Offline
Traveler
Barbara  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Quote
Mantas said:
So you would be able to easily get through the traffic and protesters/blockade if there was a personal medical emergency and without being slowed down when compared to a normal day?

yes

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72057
10/23/2015 12:07 PM
10/23/2015 12:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 550
Perryman, Maryland
B
bdeeley Offline
Traveler
bdeeley  Offline
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B
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 550
Perryman, Maryland
As a non- resident, I will "vote" with my dollars and not contribute to the economy of the French side of the island. I am doing my own protest without setting up barricades in the street.


Be careful of the toes you step on today for they may be connected to the foot of the person's a$s you have to kiss tomorrow.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72058
10/23/2015 12:14 PM
10/23/2015 12:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Mantas Offline
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Mantas  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 331
Detroit Area
Quote
Barbara said:
yes

If I'm not delayed more than a few seconds in this scenario then you are winning me over. This means that the US version of this protest that we have seen over the summer is in not nearly as sophisticated because if you are on the highway that gets shutdown and have a life threatening medical emergency...you're pretty much as good as dead.

Last edited by Mantas; 10/23/2015 12:14 PM.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: bdeeley] #72059
10/23/2015 12:14 PM
10/23/2015 12:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
Barbara Offline
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Barbara  Offline
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Posts: 7,751
St. Maarten
BTW, this is a statement from young professional St Martiner who just happens to work in the tourism industry..Every st martin person I know stands proud today. and we on the Dutch side support them.

"Today I stand proud as a St. Martiner to see how my people stood tall for their rights and the rights of our children. I have tears in my eyes my heart is full. St. Martin stand up. This right here shows us that we are the government and if the people we've put, our trust in to run our country fail to do so then as a collective unit we must stand together.
PROUD"

Any of you visitors to the island who cannot understand and accept this, well, then I give up.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: bdeeley] #72060
10/23/2015 12:35 PM
10/23/2015 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
S
soualigacapt Offline
Traveler
soualigacapt  Offline
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S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
Quote
bdeeley said:
As a non- resident, I will "vote" with my dollars and not contribute to the economy of the French side of the island. I am doing my own protest without setting up barricades in the street.


I'm sure you will not be missed on the French side and hopefully this demonstration will keep French St. Martin from going the way of Dutch Sint Maarten with just about every inch of land developed and covered with cement and with 25 story buildings.

Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Barbara] #72061
10/23/2015 12:50 PM
10/23/2015 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 550
Perryman, Maryland
B
bdeeley Offline
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bdeeley  Offline
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Posts: 550
Perryman, Maryland
There are many different ways to protest and the protest that took place yesterday went a long way in alienating the very people who contribute such a great amount to the French side economy. Why not impede the movement of your elected officials? Why not have sit-ins in your government offices? You had 1000's of people on the island yesterday from those cruise ships, don't you think that many of them now have a negative perspective about the island and will share that opinion often with others?

I have now read the PLU and I can see good and bad in it.

St Martin threatened a year ago to close the border and require visas because of the econimic disparity with St Maarten and other alleged transgressions.

Every year, I hear from the residents that tourism is down and how the economy is hurting. Every year, I see businesses that I have frequented in previous visits having closed down because of fewer visitors and less dollars being spent. And, something like the protests happen which further adds to the problem.

Constructive protests could have happened, that would not have impacted residents and visitors alike, if more care had been given to others.


I have heard the mention of the Baltimore protests/ riots brought up numerous times. I live in Maryland. Do you think that the residents of my state have any sympathy for the rioters or their behavior? NO, they did more to harm their argument than help it.


Be careful of the toes you step on today for they may be connected to the foot of the person's a$s you have to kiss tomorrow.
Re: Protests blocking routes to the French side [Re: Carol_Hill] #72062
10/23/2015 01:53 PM
10/23/2015 01:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Posts: 70,614
Central Florida!
This thread is so long and convoluted, with so many replies, it is almost impossible to follow. I will close this one and start another one.


Carol Hill
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