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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: BigGreenFan]
#15781
01/14/2012 07:16 PM
01/14/2012 07:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,530 Ya never know...
HillsideView
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Like the commentary near the end of the video. Countries would be smart to enact laws allowing them to assess multi million dollar fines ($5-$10 million) for damaging a reef like that.
My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: JudyG]
#15783
01/15/2012 10:11 AM
01/15/2012 10:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,044 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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I've just been reading several news stories online. It just doesn't make any sense, how it happened. The ship travelled that itinerary every week. Some are saying it was a submerged rock and others say there was a power failure. I just saw a story that said 8 now dead. Scary, that the whole thing happened.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: swg]
#15785
01/15/2012 05:23 PM
01/15/2012 05:23 PM
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Carol_Hill
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OK, I didn't hear that about the power systems. That is really bad, that you could go on a WHOLE CRUISE and never be scheduled to have a muster drill. As far their being owned by Carnival, h*ll, half of the ships sailing today are ultimately owned by Carnival--or more..
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#15786
01/16/2012 10:12 AM
01/16/2012 10:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,228 Somewhere out there
kneafseym
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Interesting understatement quote today on CNN The ship is expected to be out of service "for the remainder of the current fiscal year if not longer," the company said. I bet it will get a new name also. I remember seeing Exxon Valdiz in San Diego getting a refit and a new name.
Mike
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: Sandy471]
#15788
01/16/2012 01:08 PM
01/16/2012 01:08 PM
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Carol_Hill
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I haven't seen any talk about how or if they would salvage the ship. There are still about 10 people missing, I believe. It appears that the ship was just seriously off course?? On purpose?? Amazing.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: swg]
#15789
01/16/2012 05:53 PM
01/16/2012 05:53 PM
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Posts: 873 Mississauga, ON, Canada
Southshore
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swg said: In the newspaper article I read in the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning a Costa hostess said that they only have the muster drills every 15 days; therefore, depending on when passengers board they may miss the drills. Apparently the crew also has infrequent drills. Is that ever scary!
Interesting to note that Costa is owned by Carnival.
I am surprised to hear that muster drills are held only every 15 days. We sailed on Carnival a couple of years ago. The first evening on board we were called to a life boat drill. Later, passengers who came on board in Barbados also had their own drill the first evening on board.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: GTcapt]
#15792
01/17/2012 10:25 AM
01/17/2012 10:25 AM
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I actually don't know if there are different rules for when lifeboat drills are supposed to take place, when you sail from the US, versus from overseas somewhere. I was very surprised to hear that many people had been on that ship for several days and had not had a lifeboat drill. The crew did not seem well trained in this instance, but to be fair to them, with the ship listing at the extreme angle that it was, it was a very tricky and dangerous evacuation. Many people reported hitting the side of the ship when the lifeboats were being lowered down. Extremely scary.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: tradewinds]
#15795
01/17/2012 11:47 AM
01/17/2012 11:47 AM
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Carol_Hill
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Apparently other members of the crew started the abandon ship manouever before the captain gave the order, as according to what I read this morning, some of the lifeboats reached shore about 10 minutes after the bells sounded and there is no way that they could have loaded a boat and lowered it in 10 minutes. The captain apparently acted very badly in many respects.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#15797
01/17/2012 02:25 PM
01/17/2012 02:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 529 Tucson, Arizona
bbuchanan
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This is an extremely tragic incident which, according to all published reporting thus far, could have been avoided. More unfortunate is the potential impact to the cruise industry overall.
I rarely book Costa in Europe primarily due to the on board exoperience and demographics. After fourteen years, I find a majority of North American passengers are not looking for that experience overall. That said, Costa is a fine line given the disclaimers I offer my guests. "Manage Expectations" is my mantra!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Blush.gif" alt="" />
SOLAS and Coast Gruard rules with regard to drills are within the first 24 hours. Most, if not all, lines sailing from US ports complete this drill prior to leaving the pier. Many lines leaving from Europe do not practice the drill until the following morning. (I did do an MSC fam trip many years ago from Fort Lauderdale and the drill was performed the following morning at sea!)
Frankly, sometimes as I watch the "condition" <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" /> of passengers attending the drill; I wonder if the next morning does not have some merit when passengers are rested and (hopefully) sober. I must admitt I sometimes "cheat" and do not attend the drill after 60+ cruises. However I take very seriously where our vests and lifeboat station are. I will add that we always take a small flashlight and will begin to take two and develop a personal plan if we are not together in an emergency.
I don't think anyone really knows what reactions will be in a real emergency. The drill is done at the dock without ocean movement, in broad daylight, with the ship upright and with all electrical operational. Those are not always the conditions in a real emergency sadly.
This will all play out over a lengthy time. The thing I keep in focus is I'm safer on the ship than driving to my local grocery store and plane tragedies have not yet stopped me from getting on a plane. That said, this is still a "black eye" on the industry to many.
Last edited by bbuchanan; 01/17/2012 02:37 PM.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: bbuchanan]
#15798
01/17/2012 02:28 PM
01/17/2012 02:28 PM
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Yes, I guess the most tragic thing is that it appears this whole incident was just plain human error. It will be interesting to hear the final outcome, but that is how it appears now. Sad.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: BarefootLife43]
#15800
01/18/2012 11:19 AM
01/18/2012 11:19 AM
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BarefootLife43 said: Most recent report shows the ship followed an identical and, apparently, authorized route last August. The article says the previous cruise probably came "within touching distance" of the rocks. That is scary. I'm sure there's more that will come out in the investigation. If this report is accurate, how do they come up with the routes? I read that also. If it is true, I wonder how accurate the charts are. The Captain did indicate that the charts showed plenty of depth. Of course at this point I don't think the skipper has alot of crediblity. We'll see.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: BarefootLife43]
#15801
01/18/2012 12:04 PM
01/18/2012 12:04 PM
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Carol_Hill
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I haven't read anything today, but I had read previously that they had done an authorized deviation back in August, but that time they were not NEARLY as close as this time, was what I had read. I will see if that story has now changed. The captain has zero credibility, in my mind, after reading the transcripts of the discussions between he and the coast guard.
Carol Hill
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
#15803
01/18/2012 05:19 PM
01/18/2012 05:19 PM
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Anonymous
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This gives a little more meaning to staying well off shore during a night-time sail-by of the Mona Kea volcano on the Big Island of Hawaii. At the time we were a little disappointed by the view (or lack thereof). All is now forgiven.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: bbuchanan]
#15804
01/19/2012 11:36 AM
01/19/2012 11:36 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 369 Close to the water as possible
Flotsam
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bbuchanan said: I don't think anyone really knows what reactions will be in a real emergency. The drill is done at the dock without ocean movement, in broad daylight, with the ship upright and with all electrical operational. Those are not always the conditions in a real emergency sadly. Speaking as a life-long boater and former Safety and Emergency Response Manager for one of the largest chemical companies in the US, I've been a bit startled at the inadequacy of the emergency preparedness procedures I've observed on the two cruises I've been on. As noted above, drills conducted under ideal conditions are next to worthless for actually preparing passengers and crew to deal with real emergencies. That said, designing and carrying out effective and realistic drills would require a great deal of the passengers time as well as undoubtedly scaring the hell out of them in the process. In my opinion, the best thing you can do as a passenger is to pay close attention to the information you are in fact given during the perfunctory drills, and then augment that with your own observation of the location of ALL emergency exits and stairways anywhere you may find yourself on board. Take that first afternoon to explore and give thought to alternate routes, etc. ALWAYS carry a small flashlight with you (the new LED lights are incredibly tiny but sufficiently bright) regardless of time of day, the interior of a ship can get really dark really fast when the power fails. If you're a boater and own a CO2 inflatable life vest, take it with you. It packs flat and allows you to grab it and evacuate as you see fit without having to find and secure one of the ship's vests. These are just a few suggestions, you get the idea. Bottom line is, you cannot necessarily rely on the crew and/or ship's procedures to save you in a real emergency. You must be personally prepared, aware of your own surroundings at all times, and ready to improvise if the need arises. Just doing these things will drastically improve your chances of surviving a disaster such as this.
Flotsam
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Costa route and speed led to the errors
[Re: Temery]
#15808
01/28/2012 05:57 PM
01/28/2012 05:57 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,216 JAX
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As usual the " Lame-stream Media" has missed most of the facts in this case. (Took 'em a week to just properly pronounce Costa! Prior to the incident the media and 99 percent of Costa cruisers couldn't have identified Costa's parent company, and now the media leads the stories as a "Carnival ship") Anyway, this looks very much like human error, and thus the blame has to sit with the captain. This link has AIS data with a voice-over from an expert: http://vimeo.com/gcaptain/costa-concordia14 minutes long, but worth the effort if you want to know the facts. Pay attention to the time-lines from the AIS data. Lots of time for an orderly muster. Going too fast, turned too late, tried to adjust, hit the rock. Simple physics unfortunately.
JPH I spent my money on booze, broads, and boats...the rest I wasted.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: Flotsam]
#15810
06/11/2012 02:02 AM
06/11/2012 02:02 AM
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Anonymous
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As noted above, drills conducted under ideal conditions are next to worthless for actually preparing passengers and crew to deal with real emergencies. That said, designing and carrying out effective and realistic drills would require a great deal of the passengers time as well as undoubtedly scaring the hell out of them in the process.
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Re: Cruise ship tragedy at least 3 dead
[Re: PelicanPirate]
#15812
08/06/2012 08:22 AM
08/06/2012 08:22 AM
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That is surprising, but I think a good idea. . And Princess is not owned by Costa. I presume you meant to say that Princess was also owned by Carnival.
Carol Hill
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