I received this from Boatyball today:

Dear Colleen,
We sent out an email earlier in the week announcing that we plan on providing advanced reservations this upcoming season in the BVI. We have received some great feedback and we appreciate how responsive our user base has been.

We wanted to clarify a few points. First, we plan on piloting this new feature to make sure it works properly. The number of users during the pilot will be extremely limited. We currently plan on doing this in October and November. Once we have tested the system we plan on opening it up to more users.

We have had boaters express concern that we will partner with one or two charter companies and provide them preferential treatment. That is not our intention! We plan on making this service available to all charter companies.

Part of what makes the BVI special is the ability to go where the wind blows. We strongly believe that the same day reservations should constitute the majority of reservations made in the BVI and for this reason we want to keep the number of advanced reservations to a small percentage.

In order to make sure the advanced reservations service does not have a negative impact on boaters we have structured the program so that we can closely monitor the number of advanced reservations.

Our goal is to improve the boating experience for all boaters. We appreciate your feedback. If you have any questions or concerns please let us know. Cheers, The BoatyBall Team

Hmmm, sounds almost like a politician writing something.

It’s a way of getting free ads.

Waking up at 7am every morning of vacation after drinking the night before sounds like a great plan. Who needs to relax when you can scramble to reserve a mooring ball every morning 😀

If you book your charter through boatyball soon you will get special priority and can book the day prior. I have zero doubt this was always the plan.
G

I agree with George. The economics of BB did not make sense unless they went this route or got control of so many balls that they would raise the price

It's outrageous for an entity to control a large number of balls and be in the broker business. Especially a foreign business.

Boatyball should chose which business they want to be in.

The mooring ball reservation business serves no useful purpose, so they should jettison that and become a charter broker competing on a level playing field.

I do enjoy being able to grab a ball for the night but I think now's the time to practice anchoring and retrieval skills. Benefits are no charge for anchoring so more money for beer and food as well as keeping your skills up.

Is Boatyball a sponsor here at traveltalk?

No. All TTOL sponsors are listed on the TTOL sponsors tab.

I had actually wondered the same thing....

If they are a sponsor, they are listed there. Period. We have no interest in that company. That one thread was closed down because a member was advocating illegal actions against the company, which we will not allow our board to be used to advocate.

Hi Carol, speaking for myself, I didn't mean anything underhanded or such...was just thinking that if they were to become a paying sponsor it might help their image a tad around these parts. They sure get a lot of publicity here...perhaps it's time they pony up.

They mostly get beat up here. Can't imagine why they'd want to support a forum that continually puts them down so aggressively. To be honest, the BB conversations here make me want to stop sponsoring and participating in such a negative forum.

Me too.

Actually they get both positive and negative but the negative is higher and with good reason for the charterer is the one that has to deal with this during their vacation.
BB is a business and they’re going to do what’s ever necessary to keep growing, so get the thoughts out of your minds about being “Fair”.

Sail445, How about being honest. Would that be a reasonable expectation?

What do you think?

What did I say that isn’t honest, would you like to elaborate?

Missed my point. Sorry . The message was to you. You said don't expect them to be fair. So my question to you was how do you feel about expecting them to be honest. Please read my post again with this context.

My mistake, they’re selling a product so they’re going to be truthful about the positive aspects and try to convince you on negative aspects.

The latest email that I received this morning. Looks like they are partnering up with Virgin Charter Yachts. You will get 2 free nights on BoatyBall's if you book a Virgin Charter Yacht through the Boatyball website.

Christmas in July!


Virgin Charter Yachts is helping kick off the new BoatyBall website by offering a special 10% discount on any Virgin Charter Yachts charter reserved through BoatyBall! In addition, if you use the new Boatyball website to book your charter with Virgin Charter Yachts you will receive 2 free nights on moorings in the BoatyBall program during your charter.

Virgin Charter Yachts specializes in bareboat powercat charters and they offer some of the newest and nicest powercats in the BVI with upgrades not normally seen on 'typical charter' boats including: Volvo IPS engines, Wolf and Subzero appliances, ice makers, water makers, teak decks, etc.

BoatyBall has chartered with Virgin Charter Yachts and we know you will love their yachts and exceptional customer service experience!



It might be "Christmas in July", but the Holiday charter season is just around the corner and inventory is already becoming limited!

Holiday and Spring Break dates are filling up quickly. The 10% discount on Virgin Charter Yachts and 2 free nights stay are good through August 12, 2019.

If you have not booked your boat for 2019/2020 then select the button below and start planning your next BVI adventure!

I got that email also, probably just the beginning.

Not sure I agree with that...at any rate, if it's so horrible why do "they" spend so much time here? I can't think of the last time I came here and it didn't show "them" logged in (and I check in a lot.)

Hmmmm....

Yesterday, Colleen posted this extract of an email she received from BB:
QUOTE: We have had boaters express concern that we will partner with one or two charter companies and provide them preferential treatment. That is not our intention! We plan on making this service available to all charter companies. END QUOTE

ONE DAY later, I receive an email from BB announcing their partnership with Virgin Charter Yachts... Am I missing something here??

Oh well....

Michel Benarrosh
sailonline.com

Up to this point I've observed the conversations about Boatyball but been pretty neutral. However their use of their "service" as a back door way into becoming a charter broker has crossed a line with me. No longer are they just a couple of guys trying to help charterers but rather have used this conversation as a way of publicizing their fledgling charter brokering business. I have a year before our next charter but at this point plan to avoid their mooring balls and hope this great idea of theirs has faded away by then.

They have the power to give free moorings to those that book through them. The commission is rich enough to do this.

Remember when boatyball said they are doing this because they care about the boaters.

What a load of horse####

It’s a business and they’re moving up from the shovel to the bulldozers

Lol

This is really funny...I am sure if I called Virgin Charter out of the blue they would give me at least a 10% discount or a gas credit or some other special. I have never ever paid retail for a boat in the BVIs. I am working on a booking right now with another company and am at a 15% discount.

And as a bonus I get 2 free BB nights? Pinch me as I must be dreaming...

Kinda curious how it would work...if I book now can they block off a ball for me at say Cooper one my first night out in February?

BB makes it up as they go. So who knows and why bother

I hate to quote myself but literally just got this from Virgin Yachts....in the truth is funnier than fiction category

🎅🎁 Merry X-Mas in July!🎄😎The holidays are only 22 weeks away and we have limited availability remaining for Christmas, New Year's and Spring Break weeks! Offering 10% OFF for any new bareboat 2019/2020 charters booked before the end of July. Mention code JULY10 at time of booking.

Charter companies used to give a one time 2 weeks for the price of one during September and early October and then later 10 days for the price of one

Once again, We can count on boatyball to publish misleading advertisements.

I am curious if Virgin created any special offers to help launch boatyball’s entrance into the charter broker business.

Who here would pay big $$$ to BB for their charter? What have they done to earn our trust?

So who approached who for this "partnership" do you think?

Virgin, DYC, Horizon, CC, Conch and Warrens beloved TMM lol

Peter - did they approach BB or did BB approach them?

BB is in the habit of stating who there partners are. Even if the partner is not aware.

I don't believe that they approached tmm. Do they list tmm as a partner?

you asked what I thought, not what is real, I was trying to get into the Boatyball way of thinking

You'll know it's gone too far when charter companies start removing the anchors from the boats - and putting a sticker with the BB website where the windlass controls were.

Oh come on guys... Let's have some substantive conversation. This just bash boatyball stuff is getting old...

Carol,

Have you ever seen so much passion on a subject as there is with getting BB out of the BVI?

The answer is "no" and I think the passion is a little overdone..

I’ll bet anyone here that Alec and his cronies never worry about arriving and not getting a Moorings ball.
Now of course they’ll Want to reply that they go through the same procedures that the charterers go through yet they know it’s not going to hold any weight.

For whats its worth I actually have a lot of respect for Alec. It takes a lot of courage for this young man to stay on this board in the face of the relentless onslaught. To his credit he has actually become a lot more forthcoming with his BB responses and apparently the sole spokesmen for BB on this board....

All IMHO

I also think Alex is doing a good job.

I here you guys bitching about $40 for a mooring ball.

But, not one complaint about why a 20 min private water taxi from Red Hook to West End costs $550 to $700. Crickets. I know insurance is a lot and fuel, but come on.

The real problem isn’t the fees its the fact that you have to make reservations during your vacation so basically your not fully on vacation.
Now don’t come up with “You can always anchor” because anyone familiar with the anchorages knows that the moorings cover the majority of the field and if approximately 20% decided to anchor they would be too close to a ball.

for some reason, boatyball always has the moorings in the best oftern most sheltered locations.

I can see reasons to not like it, but plenty of people make reservations for slips while on vacation. How is this so different? It is simply a change.

My initial thoughts were that it wasn't a big deal aside from the rigid times you had to book it. And the fact that there are services that were already in place that could have been used (dockwa for example). But I do think their new initiative is going too far. And even prior there were a lot of smaller things to work out.

For what its worth I have absolutely no issue with the cost...after chartering a 514 powercat, paying for gas, paying for provisions and plane tickets to SJU and chartering a flight it isnt even rounding error and 1 day of BB is less than my parking/commute to DC on any given day.

I personally dont even have an issue from a captains standpoint....

I have no issue with the business model as simply a mooring payment system.

My total and complete issue is with the owners of BB continuous and persistent disingenuous and deceptive marketing practices. My assumption is that if they are brazenly doing that the to the chartering world they are more than likely doing that to the BVI businesses. And that part to me is totally unacceptable. BB is a classic case book study on how to not to market a business and that in the long run integrity and character do matter.

It is my understanding that Alec is not an owner of BB so at least for me he has my full respect....

Alll IMHO

Hey, I've seen people here very passionate about flag etiquette and fender management too....(and let's not even start on holding tanks!)

Its really simple for me. Any system that gives preferential access to Mooring balls and completely locks many people out of those balls is unacceptable. This was never about making things easier for charterers or mooring owners. It’s about making big dollars for boatyball. If it was about convenience they would have simply kept all the balls FCFS and allowed online payment. They need to have control of the balls and who books to extort people into booking charters with them. As they gain control of more and more balls the power they will have to force charter bookings through their site increases. This will have a major impact with real charter brokers in the BVI. I for one will not do any business with any company that chooses to partner with boatyball.
G

Really can’t compare it with dock reservations. Dock reservations aren’t new and are an accepted part of the boating community.

...and probably don't have to be sitting with a finger on an app waiting for some magical time to arrive to try and win a lottery as it were.....

I joined this forum as I plan to charter in the BVIs next summer for the first time, and I can tell you I'm not at all excited about this change. When you are on vacation, this 7am exact schedule for BB is the last thing you want. Really not great at all. Even if you could schedule in advance a few days, the winds, weather, and plans can all change last minute.

The good news is:
a. Shouldn't really matter in the summer....unless
b. They continue take over more balls.

Boatyball...the new evil empire!

If you don’t book your charter through boatyball the 7am window might well be a non issue.
G

Interesting point...and agree

I for one plan to go to Wonky Dog more and to recommend it more since not only did they not succumb to BB but in fact have added FCFS which not only benefits them but benefits all the Anegada business's and the BVIs as a whole...and, of course the food is great. Good business role models...

I have discussed BB with Moorings several times...

What if you're a boat owner and don't use the usual booking procedures?

G[/quote]


Interesting point...and agree

I for one plan to go to Wonky Dog more and to recommend it more since not only did they not succumb to BB but in fact have added FCFS which not only benefits them but benefits all the Anegada business's and the BVIs as a whole...and, of course the food is great. Good business role models...

I have discussed BB with Moorings several times...[/quote]

Perhaps encourage Wonky Dog with their new balls to offer advance reservations directly.

The Last Resort did this with a few balls and since I had to pick up at airport on night of Full Moon Party, I took advantage of this advance reservation , DIRECTLY from the ball owner. There was a "premium" $ for the ball, but it also gave you "bar credit", thus ensuring your patronage at The Last Resort. (A "reserved" floater was attached to the mooring ball, clearly stating "Reserved"

Perhaps instead of just whining and bashing BB for the changes from "the good ole days", encourage COMPETITION. Email reservations with ability to cancel with adequate notice, thus allowing usage by others.

Competition in free market society helps to control prices as well as many other things about BB that the BBHaters Society dislikes.

Warren, have you discussed this possibility with Peter?

This whole conversation makes me want to stick to USVI, SVI, PR, and STM. The BVIs continue to suck all the cash they can from the boating community. Still, there are lots of good places to anchor in the BVIs. We definitely trust our ground tackle more than moorings.

Cheers, RickG

No soup for you!!

For the most part I don't see an issue with BB. Seems like they're just capitalists. The argument in large part on this board is somehow they are providing a service we don't want. When is that a criteria for anything? Remember pet rocks? No one needed that item and they sold them in truck loads. Your choice is to buy or not buy the product. Take your money somewhere else. Use the pointy thing up front and anchor your boat somewhere else. I just don't understand the passion here. However......

I do have a question for the admins. Alec appears to be on the Boatyball payroll and he is clearly promoting his product on this forum. My understanding of the forum rules are that you need to be a sponsor to do that. Perhaps you could clarify what you are allowed to post as a member vs. a sponsor? I'm sure there are many on this forum who would like the opportunity to promote product without paying for sponsorship.

thanks!

I agree with looking at the other islands!
I trust my ground tackle just fine as well. But I'm not sure I trust all of the people chartering boats. Second issue is that many of the bays someone might want to stay overnight is full of moorings and has little opportunity to anchor. Meaning you have to anchor farther away and possibly have a long/wet dingy ride to get to a place to eat/shop. The moorings obviously fulfill a need.

So far, I haven't seen Alec posting a new post, but responding to posts by others. Certainly, if someone else posts a thread about YOUR business, you should be able to respond to defend yourself or explain yourself, no? All the 'advertising' for BB here seems to come from members who bring it up in every other thread..

Agreed that he hasn’t started many posts before t when he replies he some times says things that are half truths. For example the mentioning that with BB your guaranteed a safe and fully insured mooring ball but the Mooring balls are put in by Moore Secure are the ones responsible.
A lot of times according to other posters they give out false information and do it in a way where it’s almost a borderline question which would require a response. Etc etc

Not in the BVI, but there are areas where it is. As I said though, it is a change. People resist change.

The having to sit and wait to be able to book it though and only have a chance of getting it like buying tickets for the hottest event around is a problem though. And their newest practice of potentially giving preferential treatment is a problem as well. I think if it was done right it could be good, but the way they did it isn't ideal.

I think the passion against it here comes from the fact it is taking away FCFS mooring balls. And it seems in many cases, taking the better balls.

My thoughts all along have really been a reservation system doesn't really work or prevent the hassle of getting somewhere and not finding a ball unless every single ball is part of the system.

I think the passion against it here comes from the fact it is taking away FCFS mooring balls. And it seems in many cases, taking the better balls.

My thoughts all along have really been a reservation system doesn't really work or prevent the hassle of getting somewhere and not finding a ball unless every single ball is part of the system.[/quote


The object of BB is to get all the FCFS balls and monopolize the mooring fields other wise they would make their balls FCFS and when someone ties up to one they would be able to go online and pay for it.

I don’t understand how BB benefits the establishments that are converting their balls or the independents that own balls. If I am CIBC I am full every day during the high season and a goo d part of the shoulder season. What benefit does BB add? I would like to hear their sales pitch.

I think the pitch is that no one needs to go out to collect the fees.

Unless you have lived in the BVI, it’s hard to imagine how bad the banks are, not to mention they are only in Road Town. Not having to handle that much cash and ferry to RT is a big advantage, quite apart from the challenges of collecting and tracking cash.

Got it. Thx.

Good answer!

ok... so here is my suggestion. Everyone on this forum should stop referencing BoatyBall. Instead it should be "the service we will not mention by name" or maybe "the company who's name shall not be mentioned". Or whatever you want to use. That way all these posts are not advertisements for BB. Let me show you how it's done with my second suggestion.

Second suggestion. What I have heard pretty clearly is that getting up and fighting in virtual space for a ball from the company who's name we shall not mention really bothers people. Fighting over a mooring ball in person in the mooring field in the afternoon is however acceptable (sarcasm intended). The way to get around this issue is actually pretty straight forward (and more sarcasm coming) and just involves funding a go-fund-me project that I will surely put in place to create a web site that your can register yourself where you can choose the date and the mooring balls you might want to reserve - give it a whole list in order that you prefer. The site would then fire up a bot at 7:00:00 and attempt to make a reservation for you following the list that you have set up. It will then e-mail you the outcome so when you get out of your bunk at ten or so you can check your e-mail inbox. Surely this service is worth 5 bucks since it will eliminate the need to fight with the other boaters at the ungodly hour of 0700 and it doesn't depend on having a fast internet connection that morning. So fix the problem of the company who's name we can't mention with another web service that we can all hate on. Perfect or what?

Ahhh!!! So there is the definition of a perfectly good counter to the company who shall not be mentioned by name. Create a on-line service where people can pay for FCFS moorings. Not a reservation system - just a payment system. When the person comes to collect you just show him your receipt. Or even better - number the FCFS balls and you can specify it when you pay on line. That way the guys don't even need to come by your boat. This has the upside of no cash involved and the mooring owner doesn't need to come collect. This would take away - to large degree - the incentive of the mooring owners to use the company who's name shall not be mentioned. Who's in on this one?

Its a Ching thing and already in the works

I dont know what that means. Please enlighten me!

Ching a new system of payment like Square but for the Caribbean

So SleepyChef,
Do I infer that Wonky Dog moorings will be reservable by other than That Company Who's Name We Shall Not Speak(TCWNWSNS)?

I think Peter stated earlier that his are FCFS. But I’ll let him confirm that. TCWNWSNS? Awesome!

My MIL used to babysit for Chad when he was a tyke, and of course we have known his dad for over 50 years, so I hope this venture is very successful.

Why can't we speak of boatyball? Because they are ### and ### and ###

Square is just a payment processing service. So I assume Ching is similar. So I doubt this has anything to do with reserving moorings but rather the ability to pay for them via credit card. At least that's how I'm interpreting this. And maybe that's all that's really needed for FCFS moorings though this seems to imply that someone would still need to come around to the boats and process your credit card. I had in mind something with a little bit more meat on it, i.e., a web site I could go to - perhaps save my credentials and credit card into - and I could initiate the payment myself by simply stating my boatname and which mooring I was currently attached to. Thus the mooring owner could just skip me when he/she is out collecting or if he/she came by I could show them the e-mailed receipt I had. It could be very simple to put in place. In fact these two things - ability to self initiate the payment through a web site and the ability to pay the person collecting via a credit card via Ching could certainly co-exist. If the mooring ball owners wanted this to work for FCFS mooring balls it's not a technology issue but rather their decision to support it or not. Frankly it's probably a weekend's worth of work to set it up and get it hosted. And to start with you could probably just set it up through something like Sign up Genius - that would take maybe two hours to set up and cost nothing whatsoever other than the credit card transaction fees which presumably something like Ching will be charging as well so really no diff. So the cost of the FCFS mooring through this mechanism should be whatever the mooring owner is trying to charge, i.e., not different than what you would pay the person collecting. I bet I could get a workable version of the sign up genius solution set up for any owner that wanted to take a look Any takers? The funny thing is that surely TCWNWSNS could set the FCFS mooring fee payment system up in no time whatsoever given where they are right now.

I found out that TCWNWSNS is located in my town. Maybe I should go knock on their door and find out if the people working on this really have horns and tails as some on this board seem to be implying.

The difference is we are in the Caribbean and not the USA all these things you mention require USA bank account. This is why we are waiting for CHING then it will be payable on the website, I am meeting with him next week.