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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: CaptainJay]
#241477
12/03/2020 08:33 PM
12/03/2020 08:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,368 Washington DC
bailau
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,368
Washington DC
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Here you go George in the Captain of Blue Skies' (of the 20k boat) own words: "At a point about 1 mile south of White Bay, Jost Van Dyke...." Source: https://sailinganarchy.com/2020/12/02/detained-and-fined/And it looks as though he is going to pursue legal means to get the money back so assuming he is going to follow through we should all have our "legal answer". I do think when he retains counsel and determines the cost and time to pursue this he will cut his losses however His quote from source above... "I am now engaged in attempt to vacate my guilty plea and litigate the validity of the fines."
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: CaptainJay]
#241512
12/04/2020 11:36 AM
12/04/2020 11:36 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Traveler
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
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The captain claimed he was intercepted at 18 25.629 N 64 46.096 W on their way to St. Francis Bay on St. John. I 'Googled' the coordinates to view his position as he claimed, which appears to be about a mile off White Bay, Jost Van Dyke. This point is well within BVI territorial waters and if not within the 'Exclusion Zone', it was a 'rock's throw'. What were his intentions if he had not been intercepted? It is clearly not a route from St. Thomas to St. Francis Bay. Does the definition of 'innocent passage' mean free reign to sail in the territorial waters of a foreign country, or does it imply a necessary passage to travel from point 'A' to point 'B'?
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: JasonHelmbrecht]
#241513
12/04/2020 11:37 AM
12/04/2020 11:37 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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GA/NC
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For the uninformed (me), can someone clarify innocent passage under UNCLOS regulations? Does it allow you to sail anywhere you like in another country's waters or does your route need to be appropriate for a required tack based on wind/sea conditions? Could they have gone on a slow cruise all the way around Tortola based on innocent passage? I would say a cruise around Tortola would not be acceptable. Here is a simple explanation. The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) enshrines the concept of innocent passage through a coastal state’s territorial sea. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal state. A vessel in innocent passage may traverse the coastal state’s territorial sea continuously and expeditiously, not stopping or anchoring except in force majeure situations.
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: CaptainJay]
#241514
12/04/2020 12:25 PM
12/04/2020 12:25 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Traveler
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
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PASSAGE (common definition) - the act or process of moving through, under, over, or past something on the way from one place to another. 'Innocent Passage' per the subject UNCLOS definition - a traverse continuously and expeditiously. In looking at a map of the USVI and BVI, no way does a sail from St. Thomas to St. John necessarily include a traverse into BVI territorial waters. I have to make some assumptions here, but I'm thinking making a tack of 8 miles from Hawksnest Point to Jost Van Dyke and 8 miles back to St. Francis Bay, in order to cover the 4 miles between the two doesn't meet any definition of expeditious passage, and certainly not innocent. Apparently the 'life long sailor' and ten year resident of the USVI (his words) didn't see any problem with this itinerary.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: NoelHall]
#241522
12/04/2020 01:18 PM
12/04/2020 01:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359 Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
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PASSAGE (common definition) - the act or process of moving through, under, over, or past something on the way from one place to another. 'Innocent Passage' per the subject UNCLOS definition - a traverse continuously and expeditiously. In looking at a map of the USVI and BVI, no way does a sail from St. Thomas to St. John necessarily include a traverse into BVI territorial waters. I have to make some assumptions here, but I'm thinking making a tack of 8 miles from Hawksnest Point to Jost Van Dyke and 8 miles back to St. Francis Bay, in order to cover the 4 miles between the two doesn't meet any definition of expeditious passage, and certainly not innocent. Apparently the 'life long sailor' and ten year resident of the USVI (his words) didn't see any problem with this itinerary.
I think it's also safe to assume he would have had to cross the exclusion zone to get to the position he was stopped. This seems problematic too...
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: CaptainJay]
#241523
12/04/2020 01:19 PM
12/04/2020 01:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148 road town
sleepychef
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,148
road town
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The exclsion zone was not set up to keep boaters out of BVI waters but to keep them in and monitored. The BVI territorial water boundries did not change vessels wanting to go directly to JVD needed permission to take that route or else where required to go round the back of Tortola.
Exclusion zone BVI boaters June till Dec 1st
Last edited by sleepychef; 12/04/2020 01:32 PM.
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: CaptainJay]
#241561
12/04/2020 05:08 PM
12/04/2020 05:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 97 South Central Texas
hocndoc
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 97
South Central Texas
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I'm afraid it's another example of BVIslanders biting their nose(s) off to spite their face (s). So many examples: business regs, routinely lost paperwork and remember the airport customs fusses years ago? Paradise roses aren't supposed to have thorns!
I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: hocndoc]
#241574
12/04/2020 06:20 PM
12/04/2020 06:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052
GA/NC
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Re: BVI Impounding boats
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#241583
12/04/2020 08:20 PM
12/04/2020 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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If the runway is extended the large jets coming in to land will have to approach the runway from West End and traverse the south shore of Tortola and north shores of Norman, Peter and Cooper islands to land. I’m sure the tourists who come to vacation will enjoy the sounds of jet engines while they’re sipping their Pina Coladas.
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