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Tipping - Dutch Side #131695
06/02/2017 09:35 PM
06/02/2017 09:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 823
Western North Carolina
CathyandDanny Offline OP
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We went a restaurant tonight that charged a 15% service charge. On the bill, there was an additional recommended 15% tip. Is the tip not the same as the service charge? We had excellent service so would you add 5% (to make it 20%) or 15% to the total?

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Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: CathyandDanny] #131696
06/02/2017 09:54 PM
06/02/2017 09:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,092
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Quote
CathyandDanny said:
We went a restaurant tonight that charged a 15% service charge. On the bill, there was an additional recommended 15% tip. Is the tip not the same as the service charge? We had excellent service so would you add 5% (to make it 20%) or 15% to the total?


They can recommend any amount they want but if 15% is included, nothing to 5% (or whatever you are comfortable with) is fine.


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: CathyandDanny] #131697
06/02/2017 11:08 PM
06/02/2017 11:08 PM
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badbenni Offline
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Cathy -----The 15% is a TIP not Service charge. Many restaurants started adding the 15% because some travelers either left nothing or very little as to tips. I make it a practice to add to the 15% based on the quality of service rendered by the server. I add between 5-15% additional if the service is good to excellent.
Unfortunately it has become necessary for restaurants to add the 15% to their checks due to the patrons that do not tip at all or very little when none is added to their check.

Last edited by badbenni; 06/02/2017 11:13 PM.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: badbenni] #131698
06/03/2017 06:35 AM
06/03/2017 06:35 AM
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Ohio
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Don't forget, some servers/places will also imply of the 15% added on, a portion is the turn-over-tax, the owner gets some or all (not all goes to the staff) and a myriad of other excuses as to why it is not enough.


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131699
06/03/2017 11:19 AM
06/03/2017 11:19 AM
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Brookfield, CT.
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To be totally honest, I am sick to death with regard to the constant tipping scam often perpetrated on island visitors on both sides of the island, and the following is just my personal take on the whole issue. I'm not asking for people to agree or disagree but this is my honest opinion.

Tipping should be a choice issue and not mandated by anyone and should be freely given for reasonable service or happily given for great service. And it should be at the discretion of the diner, and NOT dictated by the restaurants or the restaurant owners.

I can't tell you how many times I've been given merely adequate service in places that used to be top shelf since this new form of dining ransom has overtaken the Dutch side of the island, and there has been at least one occasion I would not have tipped at all because the service was so poor. And don't even get me started with regard to the French side. My mantra is now "Don't ask, don't tell" when dining there.

I know this isn't a popular position to take but I don't feel personally responsible for paying the restaurants' taxes, which really should be built into the line item prices on the menu; nor do I feel I should be forced to tip for poor service.

I guess I'm getting old and crotchety but the truth is, I have no issue with a twenty percent plus tip for good service but I strongly resent being forced to tip for less than okay. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131700
06/03/2017 12:03 PM
06/03/2017 12:03 PM
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I have to agree. This is not at all mandatory... A tip is when you were so pleased with service and wanted to give the waiter or waitress something extra. My opinion is!!! Service charge??? that is the tip... they can phrase it anyway they like, but added money to the bill for service is just that. And there have been more time than not, that we got horrible service. This issue seems to only bother americans. I could be wrong, but any tipping is not a have to do thing.... If your eating out a lot for a long period of time, this could become a huge burden.. But that's my opinion. Service added is just that...

Re: Tipping - Dutch Sidey [Re: pat] #131701
06/03/2017 12:15 PM
06/03/2017 12:15 PM
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pat--I am old and crotchety as well, and I totally agree with what you say. If we like the service or if it's even somewhat reasonable, we tip 20% or more. If they add 15% automatically, I tip zero extra. What I really object to is that many tourists don't expect to see an automatic tip, and so, having had a cocktail or two, often don't even see that the 15% has been added. If there's not a statement on the menu regarding the auto tip, I think it could be construed as an intent to deceive the customer..


Carol Hill
Re: Tipping - Dutch Sidey [Re: Carol_Hill] #131702
06/03/2017 12:42 PM
06/03/2017 12:42 PM
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Massachusetts
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If we like the service or if it's even somewhat reasonable, we tip 20% or more. If they add 15% automatically, I tip zero extra.


Exactly what I was just going to post <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131703
06/03/2017 01:01 PM
06/03/2017 01:01 PM
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Ohio
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While not old and crotchety like you and Carol, and as always, very well stated and I think many will agree and I am one that will.

I think some of the added service charge on the Dutch side is a result of Europeans dining there and not tipping as they expect it to be built into the menu price.


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131704
06/03/2017 01:07 PM
06/03/2017 01:07 PM
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Right on Pat!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> The new thing now in the States is a lot of restaurants are doing "No Tipping". They are including the tips in their prices and paying the staff more money. Makes sense, why don't they all do it that way??? Americans are so self conscious when it comes to tipping, especially in SXM.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131705
06/03/2017 01:24 PM
06/03/2017 01:24 PM
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Nah, JD, you are old and crotchety also, just don't admit it!!!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


Carol Hill
Re: Tipping - Dutch Sidey [Re: Carol_Hill] #131706
06/03/2017 01:26 PM
06/03/2017 01:26 PM
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Yonkers, NY
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We were one of those "people/couples" Carol. Years ago at Bliss when they had dining we didn't realize a service charge had been added so we tipped on top of that. We were staying at the Caravanserai so we did not drive. Too much sun, too many cocktails and well....

When we figured it out later the server or restaurant manager because who knows who gets the "service charge/tip" winded up with a 35% tip.

If there is 15% added we typically do not leave additional monies. There are of course exceptions.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Sidey [Re: fabila] #131707
06/03/2017 02:59 PM
06/03/2017 02:59 PM
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Albany, New York
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I kind of understand the problem. Visitors from the US understand tipping whereas visitors from Europe are more apt not to as service charge is usually included. If it's already in and service was good, I add some, if the service is wanting, inform the manager.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Sidey [Re: fabila] #131708
06/03/2017 03:27 PM
06/03/2017 03:27 PM
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Posts: 2,922
Boynton Beach, FL
EdB Offline
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Quote
fabila said:
We were one of those "people/couples" Carol. Years ago at Bliss when they had dining we didn't realize a service charge had been added so we tipped on top of that. We were staying at the Caravanserai so we did not drive. Too much sun, too many cocktails and well....

When we figured it out later the server or restaurant manager because who knows who gets the "service charge/tip" winded up with a 35% tip.

If there is 15% added we typically do not leave additional monies. There are of course exceptions.


As many has already stated...rings out my feelings exactly. I hate being told what I HAVE to leave for service/tip or whatever else they can call it. I always leave minimum 20 percent wherever we go....but.....when I am told what i MUST tip...i rarely will leave any extra!!! The exception is when service has gone above and beyond!!! The added service charge is a scam...we all know it and so do the restaurant personnell and management/owners. They are hoping that after a few drinks, people won't notice, or are first time ''virgins'' to the island, and will double dip the tip!! It's a win/win for them....they make out either way..sometimes double. In most other industries, a practice of deceit would be illegal. New mantra should be "Diners Beware".

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: CathyandDanny] #131709
06/03/2017 04:48 PM
06/03/2017 04:48 PM
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Hershey, Pennsylvania
Tom Offline
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Always love this one when it comes up.
15% added regardless of the quality of food and service.
Of course we are to assume that good is the "norm" and we know what to do with "great", right?
But what about sub par? True, we can ask to speak to the manager but who's kidding whom? Most of us are reluctant to make waves.
So our options?
1. Don't go back.
2. When asked, be honest and relate your experience to others when asked.
3. Find alternatives that are not quite as greedy. They are out there.

Thanks to you, Pat, you hit the nail on the head!

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: Tom] #131710
06/03/2017 05:32 PM
06/03/2017 05:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 823
Western North Carolina
CathyandDanny Offline OP
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I appreciate all the answers!
Pat, it seems that you are my voice of reason on this site. I almost always agree with you. And yes, I agree this time!
Don't you think wait staff hates this too?
My new resolve in regarding to tipping: What Carol said!

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: LBI2SXM] #131711
06/03/2017 06:59 PM
06/03/2017 06:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,211
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
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"If we like the service or if it's even somewhat reasonable, we tip 20% or more. If they add 15% automatically, I tip zero extra"

Carol, let me tell you and everyone why this attitude is so wrong. First of all, it's not the servers fault the owner is a greedy [censored]. Being the the business, I detest the service charge unless it is clearly stated. We always ask before we are seated about the service charge. We have no control if the owner splits the tips amongst the staff, or he keeps a percentage for himself. Unfortunately, if we knew, we would never patronize an owner who steals from his employees. When we were in Europe we understood how the SC worked, but tipped about 10% anyway if the service was good. Bottom line it's not fare to burn the server for doing his or hers job. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sasasal] #131712
06/03/2017 07:20 PM
06/03/2017 07:20 PM
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Cobourg Ontario Canada
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We eat mostly on the French side but in 20years going there we haven't had bad service anywhere. We add 10% to all bills. La croissanterie shakes his head no to more. We are never in a hurry when we dine. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/dine.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131713
06/03/2017 07:55 PM
06/03/2017 07:55 PM
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Posts: 74,054
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Sorry, I think my attitude is absolutely correct. Servers know what the owner's policy is, and if they don't like it, get a job somewhere else. I am not responsible if the owner is stealing from his employees.


Carol Hill
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: Carol_Hill] #131714
06/03/2017 07:58 PM
06/03/2017 07:58 PM
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<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> Carol.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: Carol_Hill] #131715
06/03/2017 10:17 PM
06/03/2017 10:17 PM
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Boynton Beach, FL
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Total agreement with Carol.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131716
06/03/2017 11:31 PM
06/03/2017 11:31 PM
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Perryman, Maryland
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Quote
sail2wind said:
"let me tell you and everyone why this attitude is so wrong. "



And let me tell you why your attitude is so wrong. You shouldn't be telling anyone how to spend their own money.


DREAMS are made of SUN & SAND

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Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: bdeeley] #131717
06/04/2017 12:32 PM
06/04/2017 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
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getting a job might not be that easy, a paycheck and feeding your children could be more important than finding the "right" job.

bdeeley, I am not telling anyone how to spend their money, not even close. You must have been reading a different post.

I am surprised with the response. I was posting as a frustrated restaurateur, who lives in a tipping world. I will not punish someone trying to make a living, because of a greedy owner. However if the service did not warrant a tip, that's a different story

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131718
06/04/2017 12:46 PM
06/04/2017 12:46 PM
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Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Quote
However if the service did not warrant a tip, that's a different story


Thanks for your input. Just curious as to how you would handle subpar or really bad service where the service charge is included?


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131719
06/04/2017 01:13 PM
06/04/2017 01:13 PM
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I probably would not return. We have knocked 2 restaurants off our list as the owner is too cheap to offer free water. We are going to buy 2 drinks each, 2 meals and dessert, than refuse a glass of water, Buh-Bye

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131720
06/04/2017 01:33 PM
06/04/2017 01:33 PM
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Brookfield, CT.
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You've probably already considered this, but we were once told by a restaurant owner in a fairly popular place on the island that he prefers not to serve his tap water because, while it is totally potable and he has paperwork to attest to that fact, it neither smells nor tastes terrific. If someone insists, he will serve it if pressed to but he will also recommend sparkling or flat water instead without going into great detail with most people. Just sayin'...... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131721
06/04/2017 01:52 PM
06/04/2017 01:52 PM
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so his water is different, bull, it's called greedy, Toppers? A younger male bartender at Buccaneer told us, he serves water when the owner is not around as he gets too many complaints which equals lower tips. A few days later an older female bartender refused, saying she would be fired if she served free water, we left.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131722
06/04/2017 01:57 PM
06/04/2017 01:57 PM
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Ohio
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A few days later an older female bartender refused, saying she would be fired if she served free water, we left.


I can only imagine who the said bartender was, pretty sure I know.

Overall, we usually have pretty decent service everywhere we go. On the past trip there were two exceptions, both on the Dutch side. One is a very popular place at the end of the runway, and it did not surprise me since the 15% is added. The other was at a high-end, well established place with no 15% added and I was pretty shocked at 3 instances involving service, especially at this place.


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131723
06/04/2017 02:03 PM
06/04/2017 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brookfield, CT.
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Quote
sail2wind said:
so his water is different, bull, it's called greedy, Toppers? A younger male bartender at Buccaneer told us, he serves water when the owner is not around as he gets too many complaints which equals lower tips. A few days later an older female bartender refused, saying she would be fired if she served free water, we left.


I'm not certain but if you're inferring our problem was at Toppers, it was NOT since we rarely, if ever, go there in the first place, and after smelling the finally offered glass of tap water at the restaurant I was thinking of, I wouldn't drink it because of the odor. Nothing that smelled that foul could possibly taste good. Sparkling water s'il vous plait. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: CathyandDanny] #131724
06/04/2017 04:58 PM
06/04/2017 04:58 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Friends of ours had breakfast this morning at Bon Appetite. 15% was added and the server told our friends that the 15% was a tax and tip was not included and expected. They were so befuddled they left an extra 15%. They requested tap water and was only served bottled at $4.00 a small bottle. Needless to say they won't be back.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: SXMScubaman] #131725
06/04/2017 05:13 PM
06/04/2017 05:13 PM
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I would have walked the he!! out of there if that was ever said to me! How awful! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: SXMScubaman] #131726
06/04/2017 05:13 PM
06/04/2017 05:13 PM
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Ohio
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Where these friends first time visitors? If not, they should have been aware of this "scam". I never bother to ask anywhere any longer as the canned answer is just what your friends were told. Do you know if they asked about the 15% or did the server just take it upon themselves to interject the false information?


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131727
06/04/2017 05:22 PM
06/04/2017 05:22 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Not first time visitors and know bwtter. They did not ask what the 15% was but was told by the server when the bill was presented that it was a tax. As I said they were befuddled and completely taken by surprise since the server asked for an additional 15%. Didn't want to make an issue so added 15% and left.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131728
06/04/2017 05:24 PM
06/04/2017 05:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brookfield, CT.
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So here I am, assuming, but as I said in an earlier post, my mantra these days is "don't ask - don't tell" and it works for me. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131729
06/04/2017 05:28 PM
06/04/2017 05:28 PM
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Ohio
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No disagreement here pat.

Scubaman, if they were not new visitors, befuddled or not, they ALLOWED themselves to be taken advantage of.

The fact the server OFFERED that information without being ask would have prompted me to ask for a manager. [color:"red"]MAJOR RED FLAG![/color] While the manager might have covered for the served, it might have also prompted the server to change their tune.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: sail2wind] #131730
06/04/2017 05:42 PM
06/04/2017 05:42 PM
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Manhattan
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Quote
sail2wind said:
so his water is different, bull, it's called greedy, Toppers? A younger male bartender at Buccaneer told us, he serves water when the owner is not around as he gets too many complaints which equals lower tips. A few days later an older female bartender refused, saying she would be fired if she served free water, we left.

We won't go to Topper's for the same reason.

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: ruralcarrier] #131731
06/04/2017 05:46 PM
06/04/2017 05:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,139
Brookfield, CT.
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And perhaps an addendum to my mantra as previously stated......" and don't believe an eager waiter who tries to enlighten me!" A service charge in a restaurant is a tip regardless of what they call it or try to tell you.....

The only caveat to all I've said previously about this topic is if I go as a group I fully expect the 'house' to add a generous tip to the bill and I have no problem with that.

In an earlier life a gazillion years ago, I worked in a restaurant and made awesome tips, but not by trying to con or take advantage of the paying public. Serving tables is hard work but if you do a good job and try your darnedest to be nice (even though there's always that one table).......you can and will generally be well taken care of by John Q Public. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: pat] #131732
06/04/2017 05:51 PM
06/04/2017 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,092
Ohio
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100% correct pat.

I never worked in the food industry but I always thought people who did a good to outstanding job serving could make a good wage doing so. I know several people who have done it for years and have done well in the profession.


J.D.
Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: SXMScubaman] #131733
06/04/2017 06:12 PM
06/04/2017 06:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 165
Shelby2 Offline
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a server at bon apetit told us the same thing this past march...without our asking... I told my friend that was BS....we usually leave a couple extra $$ on top when they add the charge to the bill if we really liked the service...not this time!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />

Re: Tipping - Dutch Side [Re: Shelby2] #131734
06/04/2017 06:16 PM
06/04/2017 06:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,092
Ohio
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And that is how it should be handled by the customer!


J.D.
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