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Disdain for tourists #132649
06/15/2017 11:25 AM
06/15/2017 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
theKurp Offline OP
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theKurp  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
I grew up on St. Thomas and stayed through college, attending CVI (now UVI). During my years on the island I worked a number of jobs in high school and college - most of which were tourist related. My opinion during that time, and that shared by many of my co-workers, was that tourists were generally loud, rude, self-entitled, and inconsiderate of locals.

After living 35+ years stateside, my opinion of tourists hasn't changed much.

My wife, two stepsons and I were aboard a charter last week when we stopped at the Indians for a snorkel around 9:45 am. As I expected, all of the moorings were occupied so I, along with another sailboat waited in a holding pattern for a mooring to become available. When a mooring did become available, the boat ahead of me acted quite aggressively in approaching the mooring despite no indication from me that I had any intention of cutting in front of him. His actions later became clear to me as I witnessed no less than 3 other boats who came after us charge in front of me to take up moorings as they became free. Finally, as a fourth boat appeared my wife yelled at him that we were next in line. This was a Nauti Nymph boat captained by a local who had two tourists with him. He smiled and said he would make sure we got the next open mooring (given he was far more mobile in a powerboat) and only asked that he be allowed to tie up to our stern (which I readily agreed to).

Another note I'd like to make is that I can see why there's a 2-hour limit at the Baths for moorings. Please folks, when you're done snorkeling and have returned to the boat, if there are other boats waiting then the courteous thing to do is to leave rather than act like you've paid for the mooring and linger long after you're done. As we waited for almost an hour for a mooring ball, I saw no less than 3 other boats who were there when we arrived, and were still there when we left. I had enough time to observe that they had no one in the water, but were simply laying on the deck sunbathing and/or eating.

Yes, I still hate tourists - and for good reason.

Last edited by theKurp; 06/15/2017 11:39 AM.
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Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132650
06/15/2017 12:15 PM
06/15/2017 12:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,577
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,577
Massachusetts
Like anything, lumping an entire group together because of a few inconsiderate ones doesn't do anyone any good. It unfortunately is the inconsiderate ones that stand out.


Matt
Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132651
06/15/2017 12:17 PM
06/15/2017 12:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 271
Ottawa, Canada
UncleLuff Offline
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UncleLuff  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 271
Ottawa, Canada
Kurp, forgive me but aren't you now a tourist? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> Without tourists the VIs would be a pretty poor place!

I don't think tourists are the problem, its getting the right kind of tourists. I do my research, learn the local customs, rules and social graces, study up on my stops, look over charts, approaches, review my sailing material, go over sailing drills in my head, docking, tacking ,jibing, reefing, heave to, MOB, anchoring, mooring, etc. All to ensure that our vacation goes as smoothly as possible and ensure that when other boaters and locals have an interaction with me and my family all parties leave with a smile and a wave.


I am sure a lot of the active members are wishing they were back in the 70's 80's and 90's when only real sailors could navigate the waters of the US/BVIs and Anegada and they can have it all to themselves again. I can understand that, Maybe in a few years I will wish that as well...

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: maytrix] #132652
06/15/2017 12:20 PM
06/15/2017 12:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,775
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
FYI - I believe the mooring limit at the baths is 90 minutes so it's even worse than you thought.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: UncleLuff] #132653
06/15/2017 12:36 PM
06/15/2017 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
theKurp Offline OP
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theKurp  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
The distinction I'd like to make is that common among tourists is the attitude that they can act contrary to how they might act if they were in their home ports. With regards to boating, I doubt seriously that the "every man for himself" attitude would prevail if they knew they were likely to again meet up with those same folks when they returned to the marina. The truth is, I ran into some of those very same people later in the week that cut in front of me at the Indians. And while in my later years I am less apt to be confrontational, short of violating federal laws with regards to offering assistance to boaters in distress, I would not lift a finger to help otherwise. Karma if you will.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132654
06/15/2017 01:41 PM
06/15/2017 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,523
Woodstock, GA
RickinAtlanta Offline
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RickinAtlanta  Offline
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Woodstock, GA
A very high percentage of boaters on the lake here that we frequent are as bad as those in the BVI's who you describe. Pulling kids on tubes across your bow, ignoring no wake zones, etc.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: RickinAtlanta] #132655
06/15/2017 02:23 PM
06/15/2017 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
RonP Offline
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RonP  Offline
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Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
No one's going to justify extreme me-first behavior like the example given, certainly not me.

But there's no small amount of irony in the general idea that there is a community of service industry people in the VIs thinking of tourists as rude. Pot, meet kettle.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: RonP] #132656
06/15/2017 02:40 PM
06/15/2017 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
theKurp Offline OP
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theKurp  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Florida
Service yes, servitude no. Remember that distinction when you're in the VI and I submit that you'll rarely encounter rudeness from locals.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132657
06/15/2017 03:10 PM
06/15/2017 03:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 373
dayhiker Offline
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dayhiker  Offline
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Posts: 373
My hiking/backpacking friends refer to them as tourons. Tourist+moron = touron. A recent trip to Zion NP, Bryce Canyon NP, and Grand Canyon NP confirmed the definition.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132658
06/15/2017 07:53 PM
06/15/2017 07:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
RonP Offline
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RonP  Offline
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Posts: 237
Amityville, NY
That's simply false and you know it is. There's no reason on earth one needs to go into a bar or restaurant and prove your worthiness of service by accepting being ignored for 5 minutes while the bartender cleans glasses, with not another soul waiting for service. Yet one does have to do that, in a significant percentage of the establishments across both sets of VIs.

I have no problems as I know how to play the game. That doesn't make it right.

"service not servitude"? Really? I think you drank too much of the water down there, in some sense of the term.

I wasn't aware that expecting someone in an establishment to acknowledge the presence of a paying customer by saying "hi, be with you in a minute" or considering it rude when they can't be bothered to constituted servitude.

I recently discovered this forum has an ignore feature. You will now be the second person I've added to it, so save the witless reply.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: RonP] #132659
06/15/2017 07:58 PM
06/15/2017 07:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,211
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sail2wind  Offline
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Posts: 10,211
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
service charges reduce the impetus to give great service.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: RonP] #132660
06/15/2017 08:49 PM
06/15/2017 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 190
zhawk Offline
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zhawk  Offline
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Posts: 190
It's not "playing the game" by exchanging pleasantries before doing business in the VIs. It's a cultural thing. And if it takes a WHOLE FIVE MINUTES for a bartender who is cleaning glasses to get over to me...well I really don't mind. It's 5 minutes spent in paradise. I can sit for five minutes in that setting.

I don't know but my experience has been fine with service in the VIs. I don't expect it to be fast...I'm in slow down mode down there myself. The servers have been friendly enough. In fact some of them have been wonderful.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: zhawk] #132661
06/16/2017 04:16 AM
06/16/2017 04:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
NJ USA
M
mcevog Offline
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mcevog  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
NJ USA
I don't know... I read comments like this sometimes and wonder if I visit a different BVI! In all the times that I have been there I have never failed to have a good time; never failed to come away with a relaxed smile on my face, and never failed to enjoy the company of the people that I have met. As for service from the institutions that I have visited, I have only good experiences and things to say. I think its a wonderful place, with wonderful people, and I have been going since the late 80s. Sure - its got a lot busier, and a lot more hectic, but the charm, for me, hasn't diminished.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: mcevog] #132662
06/16/2017 05:35 AM
06/16/2017 05:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,061
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Posts: 2,061
Ontario, Canada
I'd rather be there than here sums it up for me.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: RonP] #132663
06/16/2017 08:14 AM
06/16/2017 08:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
D
Donald Offline
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Donald  Offline
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Posts: 30
Tourists behaving badly while on holidays is hardly a new phenomenon.

However in a boating environment, it seems speed and recklessness can have a worse impact than, say, some obnoxious moron in a restaurant.

However if a bartender/server is treating me poorly because somebody was rude to them 2 weeks or 2 years ago, then they are in the wrong job. For me, I have done my last Full Moon Party at Trellis after standing in line at the bar for 15-20 minutes and watched everyone around me get service. Fortunately, we had women in our crew who got drinks ordered for the males in our party.

And I LOVE the BVIs having done 7 sailing trips and my 8th one booked for next February. I have heard all about “Island time” and, while I don’t quite get it, I am powerless to change attitudes (“Changes in Latitude, Changes in Attitude” as Jimmy would say…). But excruciating slow service from the moment you get off the ferry and sit through C&I with orders to fill out the form correctly “or else” to restaurant servers who have gone MIA, it is becoming more and more difficult to write it off as “part of the charm” of the islands. Then again maybe I’m just getting old and cranky…..

But for the record, I am not equating slow service with rudeness. The people I have met from the BVIs have been, for the most part, pleasant and proud of their islands.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132664
06/16/2017 08:22 AM
06/16/2017 08:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Tortola, BVI
L
LianeLeTendre Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Tortola, BVI
I've lived and worked in the BVI for the past 24 years ... 25 years in November. I can't agree with you at all. The tourists I've met here are generally relaxed, happy, polite and are just making it their business to enjoy everything the BVI has to offer.

There are always going to be "pushy, loud, arrogant and aggressive types" anywhere you go, but they are by no means in the majority.

Having said that, I have discovered (first hand) that the older we get, the grumpier and less tolerant of others we become. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

As to the comment...

Quote
Remember that distinction when you're in the VI and I submit that you'll rarely encounter rudeness from locals.


All I can say is ...

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Doh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Rofl.gif" alt="" /> I assure you, rude locals exist and they are certainly capable of dishing it out ... but again, they are by no means in the majority.

"Politeness and Geniality" are two way streets. Interestingly, they run parallel to "Perception and Expectations Avenues" and come to an abrupt end at "Judgement Circle". Not surprisingly, "Judgement Circle" is only one block removed from "Preconceived Notions Alley" ... a dead end.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: theKurp] #132665
06/16/2017 09:06 AM
06/16/2017 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 55
J
jwh445 Offline
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jwh445  Offline
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Posts: 55
My family, friends and I have been sailing the BVI for the last 10 years. We know that we are not the tourists you are talking about, but after reading your post, I understand why we are treated poorly by some local establishments. Thank God the BVI is such a beautiful place and a sailors paradise because I don't return each year for the great service and friendly people. Example; I finished a bottle of water, crushed the bottle, removed all air, recapped and hunted down a recycle bin; after placing the bottle in the bin I was called out, from across the restaurant by a waiter for putting my garbage in a bin with no bag. I returned to the bin and removed my bottle. I am not calling out all BVI service employees, just the ones who share the OP's attitude of lumping all tourists into the touron category. Everything happens for a reason and IMO, the BVI will return to the quiet place it once was, thanks to the touron attitude of some local employees.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: jwh445] #132666
06/16/2017 10:06 AM
06/16/2017 10:06 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 190
zhawk Offline
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zhawk  Offline
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Posts: 190
Also I do think the "bad apples" in both tourists and the service industry tend to get noticed...the squeaky wheel and all that. They seem to be more significant and in greater numbers than they actually are.

But I agree with Liane, much of it is what you bring to bear. What is your attitude and expectations etc. I expect it to be slower and I expect to be okay with that. I expect to engage employees personally (I actually do here in the states too...works better up here as well) before doing business. I think it actually fits the vibe better on vacation anyway.

If you have a timer that goes off (and then sets you off) at 5-10 minutes to get served most islands (not just the VIs) are going to frustrate you.

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: zhawk] #132667
06/16/2017 01:26 PM
06/16/2017 01:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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LocalSailor  Offline
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Posts: 992
USVI
I find rude locals and tourists in every locale I travel no matter where it is.
many tourist destinations that get overloaded at certain times of the year often sell the bumper sticker:
"if it Is TOURIST Season why can't we shoot them?"

Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: LocalSailor] #132668
06/16/2017 02:27 PM
06/16/2017 02:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 483
Austin, TX
TackingAg Offline
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TackingAg  Offline
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Austin, TX
While I am not condoning inconsiderate behavior at all, I suppose there is another perspective to it. First, if you don't want to encounter these situations, it's probably best to sail on down the chain where you don't have to wait an hour for a "parking spot". Head to the SVI's and drop a hook. But some of these jerk/rude captains (or CCC's) are probably great husbands/wives and fathers/mothers. But they're trying to cater to their guests and show them a good time (on a timeline, as is the case in the BVI's since you have to get to a mooring field by 3pm). So rushing in front of someone is probably so they don't have to hear the complaints or grumbling of their crew who are watching along the rails for a couple of hours for that "parking spot". Again, not condoning, just observing. Now if someone cuts you off to get the slip/ball of their choice while there are others to select from (happened to me in Marina Cay). Now, that's a person by a different name. I would probably judge somebody's rudeness by how they behave at the restaurant and bar treating locals and other travelers. Yes, yes there are plenty of those rude people out there.


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Re: Disdain for tourists [Re: mcevog] #132669
06/25/2017 10:21 AM
06/25/2017 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 304
Rockford, Michigan
aarpskier Offline
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aarpskier  Offline
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Rockford, Michigan
Quote
mcevog said:
I don't know... I read comments like this sometimes and wonder if I visit a different BVI! In all the times that I have been there I have never failed to have a good time; never failed to come away with a relaxed smile on my face, and never failed to enjoy the company of the people that I have met. As for service from the institutions that I have visited, I have only good experiences and things to say. I think its a wonderful place, with wonderful people, and I have been going since the late 80s. Sure - its got a lot busier, and a lot more hectic, but the charm, for me, hasn't diminished.


Can adopt and attest to every word of this quote. Just returned from 9 days in paradise. Had great service everywhere ashore (HL&S, DYC, Leverick, Scrub, Marina Cay, Cooper, EBR). We find that immediately exchanging first names, and subsequently conversing re personal background, works wonders. It's all about lattitude!


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