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the 90 vs the 10 #138052
08/15/2017 10:30 PM
08/15/2017 10:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 495
OU Sooner
G
ggffrr11 Offline OP
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ggffrr11  Offline OP
Traveler
G
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 495
OU Sooner
I booked a charter for winter, 2018 with one of the second tier charter companies. I have been bareboating since ~ 1993 and have chartered with this company over ten times. We have chartered many of their sloops/cats up to '53. It is an excellent company. This time we booked one of their new flagships which will be put into charter this winter. Paper work/contract signed and here we go.

After we signed everything and sent in the $8k, 50% down payment (ouch), the charter company informed us the boat owner has now decided all charters must have a first day captain: no exceptions. I rapidly contacted the charter company to further explore this entity. I was informed the captain with be of no charge and we worked out prelim plan for heading to Norman Island the first day where the captain will then find his/her way home prior to nightfall.

The 90 is this: I am 90% (sort of) ok with this. It's nice to have some one actually assist you in the initial raising the sail/sailing a new boat which you have never been on. Maybe the checkout can occur partially during the sail over to Norman Island. This may be the greatest thing ever. There are, definitely, a lot of pluses.

But, somewhere is this is the negative 10%. I have a contract signed/ $8k sent in. Now, the contract (post signatures) has been tweaked. What if they want to tweak this again? What if the owner says, I really don't want my boat taken by anyone to Anegada, etc? I have had issues in the past with another company passing a last minute rule that you had to use/rent one of their expensive cell phones (they agreed this wasn't in the contract).

When it is all said and done, I feel it takes some pressure off of the captain and crew to have a free demo. I just wish this was in the original contract. I don't feel the charterer has any leverage to later "tweaking the contract" in his own direction.

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Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: ggffrr11] #138053
08/15/2017 10:56 PM
08/15/2017 10:56 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 364
Pacific NW
S
snmhanson Offline
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snmhanson  Offline
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S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 364
Pacific NW
I personally wouldn't sweat it. Sounds like the captain would basically be on the boat for about three hours and then you would be free. You might even be able to get underway quicker if the briefing can be done by the captain, or if the briefing can be shortened because you'll have a captain on board.

However, if you really don't like the idea I would think that you'd have grounds to cancel the charter for a full refund. Just tell them that they changed the contract and you're not satisfied with the new one. In reality it seems that you could enforce the original contract since it is a legal and binding contract, but I think it would be wiser to just find a different boat than take that route.

Matt

Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: snmhanson] #138054
08/16/2017 06:38 AM
08/16/2017 06:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 218
42.77N 76.14W
jmon Offline
Traveler
jmon  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 218
42.77N 76.14W
Several years ago we took a captain on day one of our charter in St. Vincent and the Grenadines just so we could get out of the marina at 8AM vs. noon. The bonus was, we got some of the best advice i have ever gotten regarding some "secret" anchorages etc. from the captain. Even though you may have been to the BVI umpteen times, I'll bet you can garner just one piece of information that will offset the 10% bad feeling you have about getting "duped" by the change in plans. Besides, most decisions in life are not as easy as 90/10 are they?


Jeff
Credit Card Captain
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Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: ggffrr11] #138055
08/16/2017 07:24 AM
08/16/2017 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,350
VIRGINIA
B
BEERMAN Offline
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BEERMAN  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,350
VIRGINIA
We have paid for a day captain twice. It really was just about 3-4 hours of their time by the time we shuttled them to a ferry, once at Peter and once at Marina Cay. If Norman is your "must be" destination, make sure you tell them and have them tell you the captain can catch a ride from there, or just plan a 1-1/2 hour sail in the Drake and drop them off at Peter, then onto Norman for you guys. We were off the docks early with the captain.

As far as the contract change...2nd tier, but is this a brand new, larger than you've chartered before boat?

Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: BEERMAN] #138056
08/16/2017 10:54 AM
08/16/2017 10:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,316
MD, USA
Dirichlet Offline
Traveler
Dirichlet  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,316
MD, USA
If it were me I'd probably just roll with it, given that it adds no cost or additional hassles. I'm often sailing with a crew of complete non-sailors - if you're in that situation an additional competent hand the first time off the dock could be helpful.
Again, I'd probably just flow with it, and hope to learn something new from the local captain. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" />


... DIF all the time...
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Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: Dirichlet] #138057
08/16/2017 11:08 AM
08/16/2017 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,100
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,100
Maryland
I agree with the above ... use it as a learning experience and pick their brain for local knowledge while you have a "captive audience."

Local knowledge is gold, and hard won.

Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: Twanger] #138058
08/16/2017 12:33 PM
08/16/2017 12:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Make the best of the free help. You can always ask the captain to observe you and your crew taking the vessel to the first mark and back to the dock as your first day captain checkout. In other waters that is a standard check out. Take one of the guys on the dock to a set mark and back to drop him or her off.

If you read the fine print most of the contracts allow the charter company to restrict the entire charter to the dock of the charter company chooses to do so for any reason. Once you hand the deposit over the charter company has all the cards.

Re: the 90 vs the 10 [Re: ggffrr11] #138059
08/16/2017 01:26 PM
08/16/2017 01:26 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 794
Manhattan Beach, CA
calsail Offline
Traveler
calsail  Offline
Traveler
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 794
Manhattan Beach, CA
We have chartered every summer in the BVI since 1981 (July/August for Festival). Bareboat until a last minute Birthday Cruise in Feb, 2003 when we convinced Joe at Patouche to let us charter his day sailer (46' catamaran) but it included "boatboy" Jason for the week. This 19y/o young man was such a delight to have onboard along with the eight of us that we chartered with him for three more years during the summer. But we also learned something. Local knowledge rules. From that time onward for all these years we have chartered with the Moorings and arranged to have Jimmy Hodge skipper with us. He is invisible until you need him. It is just like bareboating until something needs fixing or ???. Need a safari van on Anegada, a mooring late in the day at Cooper, dock space anywhere in the BVI, lobster in the summer, a sail repaired mid-channel, Jimmy gets it done. Once he arranged to have 3 lbs of lox delivered to our boat in Trellis Bay. Once you take a local skipper you will never turn back. So 3 hours may turn into a week. I have Jimmy's cell if ever needed by anyone.


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