Traveltalkonline.com Forums


BVI Cruise Schedule TTOL Sponsors BVI Travel Calendar
Forum Statistics
Forums39
Topics35,574
Posts282,671
Members26,193
Most Online2,218
Jan 21st, 2020
Top Posters(30 Days)
Colour1 23
pat 22
cruzer 16
BEERMAN 14
MIDiver 13
Member Spotlight
gordapeak
gordapeak
Maryland, US
Posts: 1,071
Joined: March 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Who's Online Now
24 registered members (ChiTownHarry, Kennys, mike_susan, Snorkeller, CarolinaSailor, bluejacket, captmoby, pandpfromcanada, SXMScubaman, anet_scot, snuba, xrayman67, MKGrey, Thistle, davidandsusannj, ColoBoater, Manpot, IWIWSE, 6 invisible), 138 guests, and 79 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Protecting charter boats? #140042
09/06/2017 12:27 PM
09/06/2017 12:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 638
MD, USA
polaris Offline OP
Traveler
polaris  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 638
MD, USA
While praying for the people on BVI to be safe, am wondering what all the charter companies have done to "save the boats?" Is there room to move them to hurricane holes? Can they keep them safe in their own harbors? Without floating docks can they protect from surge?

I remember when TTM Belize actually lost crew while trying to move boats ahead of a storm.


Polaris
BVI Sponsors
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140043
09/06/2017 12:48 PM
09/06/2017 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 989
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
hallucination Offline
Traveler
hallucination  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 989
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
Most of the pilings on floating docks are under 6ft. then they are "boats" often teatherd to holding anchors....not good. Majority run to hurricane holes. very few get on the hard.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140044
09/06/2017 12:51 PM
09/06/2017 12:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
EllenS Offline
Traveler
EllenS  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
I know our boat with Marine Max can either be on land, in hurricane hole or tied up in their marina. They were done several days ago. I'm not sure about protection or what will happen. Things can always be replaced. Wondering how our friends are holding up...

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140045
09/06/2017 12:53 PM
09/06/2017 12:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,533
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,533
GA/NC
I don't think there are any givens for a storm of this size. All we can do is wait and see.
G

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140046
09/06/2017 12:53 PM
09/06/2017 12:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,939
U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
Traveler
Jeannius  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,939
U.K. and Spain
Nolan... Most of them are moved to Paraquita Bay. Someone posted a link in an earlier post to the arrangements for each of the companies.

This is the first time I am truly glad I no longer own a boat in the BVI.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140047
09/06/2017 12:55 PM
09/06/2017 12:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,390
Ill, USA
Will_L Offline
Traveler
Will_L  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,390
Ill, USA
There will be a lot of losses. The sheer numbers of boats preclude getting them all in the safest shelters like paraquita bay. For a " normal" storm the south side of Tortola/ Virgin Gorda would be protected. Unfortunately the eyeball swallowed up Virgin Gorda and a good part of Tortola meaning they will be getting those 225 mph winds on north side wall..and then 140 from the south with the surge that brings. There will be tremendous losses I would bet. And those on the hard are likely not secured for eyewall velocity of this storm.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: polaris] #140048
09/06/2017 01:42 PM
09/06/2017 01:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Great effort and great planning going back to Charlie Cary and 1973. There simply is not enough time, manpower, line, and spaces to protect the boats against surge and wave action. The only chance to survive the combinations of surge and wave actions is large space and many long lines. As soon as the boats are exposed to surf like wave action cleats, winches pull out and all kinds of gear busts. The boats end up piled up like dominoes. You can already see examples from St. Martin.

None of the bareboats come equipped for storm preparations.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: Will_L] #140049
09/06/2017 01:51 PM
09/06/2017 01:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,639
An island state of mind
tradewinds Online content
Traveler
tradewinds  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,639
An island state of mind
The first photos from Paraquita Bay are sickening. The boats are piled up on each other.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: tradewinds] #140050
09/06/2017 02:00 PM
09/06/2017 02:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Quote
tradewinds said:
The first photos from Paraquita Bay are sickening. The boats are piled up on each other.


There should not be any surge on there yet? Here is the 2017 seating chart. Those are supposed to be the lucky boats to keep the industry open until the insurance companies, banks, and builders catch up?


http://www.bvimarineassociation.com/downloads/1607PARAQUITA%20BASE%20PLAN%2026%20Jun17.pdf

Last edited by StormJib; 09/06/2017 02:03 PM.
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: tradewinds] #140051
09/06/2017 02:02 PM
09/06/2017 02:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA
onlymedication Offline
Traveler
onlymedication  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Quote
tradewinds said:
The first photos from Paraquita Bay are sickening. The boats are piled up on each other.


link or source? thanks

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: onlymedication] #140052
09/06/2017 02:09 PM
09/06/2017 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
salica Offline
Traveler
salica  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
FB: BVI Abroad shows several photos of destruction in Paraquita Bay. Moorings boats not too bad at base, but wait for the change of wind direction. Some destruction at Village Cay Marina.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: salica] #140053
09/06/2017 02:25 PM
09/06/2017 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA
onlymedication Offline
Traveler
onlymedication  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Could this possibly be real? Goodness gracious...

https://twitter.com/jeremyskitchen/status/905493723190059008

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: onlymedication] #140054
09/06/2017 02:34 PM
09/06/2017 02:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
Traveler
maytrix  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
Wow.. that is not good. I have always wondered about having them all tied up like they do - one goes, another goes and eventually I would think it is a domino effect once you get a few loose that is more pulling on the rest.

Hope everyone stays safe.. boats can be replaced.


Matt
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: onlymedication] #140055
09/06/2017 02:37 PM
09/06/2017 02:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA
onlymedication Offline
Traveler
onlymedication  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Jacksonville, FL, USA

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: onlymedication] #140056
09/06/2017 03:34 PM
09/06/2017 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
C
Christo Offline
Traveler
Christo  Offline
Traveler
C
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Just sickening to see that. No doubt far worse images to come. Hope everyone has made it through.

...so I'm guessing its going to be a long time before anyone is chartering in the BVI again if the majority of the fleet has been destroyed?

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: Christo] #140057
09/06/2017 04:42 PM
09/06/2017 04:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Quote
Christo said:
Just sickening to see that. No doubt far worse images to come. Hope everyone has made it through.

...so I'm guessing its going to be a long time before anyone is chartering in the BVI again if the majority of the fleet has been destroyed?


There are many, many boats in the BVI. Some will have survived to be buffed out. Sunsail/Moorings alone have a very large global inventory and pipeline of new boats. By the time the real season comes around post Thanksgiving there will certainly be boats to charter. No doubt many things will be different.

White Bay and and a few others will be very crowded!

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: StormJib] #140058
09/06/2017 05:19 PM
09/06/2017 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,639
An island state of mind
tradewinds Online content
Traveler
tradewinds  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,639
An island state of mind
They won't be going to Ivan's because it was destroyed. Not sure how the rest of them fared.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: tradewinds] #140059
09/06/2017 05:36 PM
09/06/2017 05:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 339
Ottawa, Canada
UncleLuff Offline
Traveler
UncleLuff  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 339
Ottawa, Canada
Was just moored out front of ivan's in June... yes completely destroyed.

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/bvi%...3NzU4ZTk2In0%3D


I worry about Anegada... the entire north east eye wall was travelling right through it.

BVIs will take a long long time to recover...

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: UncleLuff] #140060
09/06/2017 06:45 PM
09/06/2017 06:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,068
South Jersey, USA
boatjunkie Offline
Traveler
boatjunkie  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,068
South Jersey, USA



[Linked Image]
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: UncleLuff] #140061
09/06/2017 06:46 PM
09/06/2017 06:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Someone will be nailing and screwing together beach bars pronto. There is just too much cash in the day trade there. Those that need to eat will get open. The $1250 a night hotel rooms the government craves will take a little longer. The likes of Foxy and Bomba will fill any gaps needed to support the thirsty boats in the meantime.

Now to the Moorings even with all the docks underwater the Moorings dinghys seem ready to get back to work as soon as the wind stops. That may have changed with some of the later breeze out of the south...

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...amp;oe=5A1C4ED5

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: StormJib] #140062
09/06/2017 07:03 PM
09/06/2017 07:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 685
Roswell, GA
Armand28 Offline
Traveler
Armand28  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 685
Roswell, GA
I was watching Foxy's cam until it got really wet then shut off. It was the last working cam in the area, and showed some of the workers getting ready. I really hope they are all ok.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: StormJib] #140063
09/06/2017 10:51 PM
09/06/2017 10:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,997
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
Traveler
GlennA  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,997
Macon, Georgia
StormJib, have you seen the pictures of Paraquita Bay and the Moorings docks??? Not much of that mess is going to buff out any time soon. Most of the buffing is gonna be with insurance adjusters.

It is doubtful that Moorings/Sunsail would have more than a couple dozen boats available by Thanksgiving.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: onlymedication] #140064
09/06/2017 11:37 PM
09/06/2017 11:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,321
sailaway42 Offline
Traveler
sailaway42  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,321
Here is what we did to do our best to protect Catatonic: https://www.facebook.com/dadelo/videos/10213573873199054/

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: sailaway42] #140065
09/07/2017 05:03 AM
09/07/2017 05:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
C
Christo Offline
Traveler
Christo  Offline
Traveler
C
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
We received this from Sunsail / Moorings this morning:

"We have suspended charters until mid-September for the moment while we assess the damage.

We will be contacting customers who’s charter have been affected in due course, however we remain hopeful that your charter in January will be unaffected."

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: Christo] #140066
09/07/2017 08:42 AM
09/07/2017 08:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,533
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,533
GA/NC
I suspect the Moorings will be able to Salvage about half the boats and have them in charter by 15 Dec. They will also pull boats from other bases to the BVI. It will however take years for the industry to recover. That will be devasting to local employment.
G

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: GeorgeC1] #140067
09/07/2017 08:49 AM
09/07/2017 08:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
Traveler
maytrix  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
I'm sure insurance also won't just want to total them all either, so that makes sense. If they aren't sunk or have serious structural damage, they probably can be repaired.

I wonder what Moorings did with their 58's? That's a lot of money and a lot of windage..


Matt
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: maytrix] #140068
09/07/2017 09:06 AM
09/07/2017 09:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
EllenS Offline
Traveler
EllenS  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
I'll be able to give you our personal experience as we are waiting to hear about our boat. Seems like it is going to be a really long process.

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: EllenS] #140069
09/07/2017 09:33 AM
09/07/2017 09:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
Traveler
maytrix  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,718
Massachusetts
Quote
EllenS said:
I'll be able to give you our personal experience as we are waiting to hear about our boat. Seems like it is going to be a really long process.


Closest we've come to dealing with something like this was after Hurricane Irene, we lost a house we had bought 3 months earlier in Vermont. Got pushed right off its foundation and filled with 3-6" of mud and structure too damaged to salvage anything so it was a total loss. Insurance first gave an estimate of 60-70% of the value since flood insurance is based on depreciated value.. Since we had only bought it 3 months earlier, we argued it hadn't depreciated yet.. fortunately we said the right things and got full payout. Happened in August and we got paid in December I think.

I have not idea what boat insurance is like, but hopefully it would be similar, although my initial feeling is it is probably a bit more drawn out.


Matt
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: EllenS] #140070
09/07/2017 10:48 AM
09/07/2017 10:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Quote
EllenS said:
I'll be able to give you our personal experience as we are waiting to hear about our boat. Seems like it is going to be a really long process.


The banks likely will not wait or want to wait. The long standard industry process is for the underwriters and/or the bank to put a professional marine surveyor on the boat. That surveyor will document the damage and loss in very short order. The best practice but not required is for the owner(s) to put their own independent surveyor on the boat.

No two marine insurance policies are created equal. The variables are too long to list and are generally even more complicated in a named storm.

One worse case, is the bank and underwriter determine the hull is totaled or beyond practical repair with an insurance payment capable off paying of the loan but little or nothing more wiping out any owner's down payment, equity, or perceived equity. In almost every case of severe damage the finance partner will be focused on getting the loan paid off before the loan is delinquent and the moment they have a surveyors report that declares the collateral worthless or compromised.

Anything that takes more than buffing out will be very expensive on a good day in islands. Boats in a non assembly line are very, very expensive to fix.

Any experienced professional marine surveyor should be able to easily explain the marine industry practices here. Maybe on first step is to determine if the charter operator has already engaged independent professional survey resources on your behalf. Does the person writing the report(s) work for the owner, operator, finance partner, or underwriter? History shows at this point the bank always gets paid first.

Last edited by StormJib; 09/07/2017 12:12 PM.
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: StormJib] #140071
09/07/2017 11:20 AM
09/07/2017 11:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
EllenS Offline
Traveler
EllenS  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 569
Lake Norman, NC
Thanks for the info. Good questions to ask whenever we can get through.

Our minimum plan is to go down if we are not totaled to see for ourselves. Now I have a better idea of what's to come.

Thanks,
Ellen

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: StormJib] #140072
09/07/2017 11:49 AM
09/07/2017 11:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 64
NY
Thistle Online content
Traveler
Thistle  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 64
NY
Wish everyone all the best in recouping their losses. Hopefully, many have gap insurance that covers the difference in what is owed to the bank and the replacement cost (would include dollars invested in down payment and additional items on boat and loss of income)? Not sure that exists, but I've often thought that I would want that assurance (insurance) before buying a boat and putting her in charter - catastrophic losses are indeed devastating. Again, hope all will be back on their boats this year and that the locals will receive the support they need to rebuild. This is so sad!

Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: maytrix] #140073
09/07/2017 01:11 PM
09/07/2017 01:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 348
Pittsburgh, PA
S
Schwendy Offline
Traveler
Schwendy  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 348
Pittsburgh, PA
Quote
maytrix said:
I'm sure insurance also won't just want to total them all either, so that makes sense. If they aren't sunk or have serious structural damage, they probably can be repaired.

I wonder what Moorings did with their 58's? That's a lot of money and a lot of windage..



New photos show most or all of Mooring's 5800 totally destroyed or severely damaged. One is upside down across the docks.



[Linked Image]
Re: Protecting charter boats? [Re: Schwendy] #140074
09/07/2017 01:34 PM
09/07/2017 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
Traveler
StormJib  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
The new wide flat floating condo we call cats may end up redefining hurricane prep. They peeled up like a tin roof taking out everything down wind of them.

[Linked Image]

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=21432760_10213921330377967_6105221953041374547_n.jpg


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1