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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: moxie]
#147105
10/23/2017 09:00 PM
10/23/2017 09:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Agreed. St. Maarten needs to agree to the Dutch conditions. Period.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#147107
10/23/2017 11:03 PM
10/23/2017 11:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,635 Brookfield, CT.
pat
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Having learned too many times over too many years how things often seem to happen on Sint Maarten, I don’t blame them for insisting on these things. There has to be some integrity and accountability, both of which have often been missing in the Island government’s dealings. Don’t know how the border thing would work out but for sure, there has to be accountability over that kind of money, and the people who so desperately need it shouldn’t be held hostage in this mess. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
Respectfully,
pat
"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them."
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: The_Lurker]
#147111
10/24/2017 09:06 AM
10/24/2017 09:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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The Daily Herald has been having a lot of problems recently. Try back later.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: deputydog1157]
#147113
10/24/2017 09:46 AM
10/24/2017 09:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Doesn't matter which recent PM you are talking about, the SXM government in general has not been good stewards of the people's money.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: deputydog1157]
#147116
10/24/2017 10:37 AM
10/24/2017 10:37 AM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,262
Kennys
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Angelface]
#147119
10/24/2017 03:26 PM
10/24/2017 03:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
thebowl
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Angelface said: So I wonder - if the people who need this relief want it to come in WITH conditions, is there anyway for them to force Marlin's hands? It's unbelievable that at a time like this, he's playing politics with relief funds. ALL relief funds come with strings and conditions. He holds an elected office, so there's bound to be a way for the political process to run its course. How long can he continue to hold his ground in the face of his constituents, who are desperate for the aid? Who knows? Probably not very long would be my guess. I am not at all surprised that he is making a lot of noise about this. As I mentioned, there is a democratic system of some sort, and the insistence on an "Accountability Commission" constitutes a vote of no confidence in him by the Netherlands. They are saying in a very direct way that they do not trust him to do what he has been elected to do. If he is as pure as the driven snow, this is patronizing and offensive. And if he isn't, he will lose the ability to deal the money out to his friends. For him, it's bad either way. But the money talks, so there's no question how this ends. Just when.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#147135
10/26/2017 09:53 AM
10/26/2017 09:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Not that anything will change in Marlin's position, but there is supposed to be a meeting of Parliament at 4 PM today to discuss this matter.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#147139
10/26/2017 11:22 AM
10/26/2017 11:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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For those interested, the parliament meeting is supposed to be carried live on www.pearlfmradio.sx and www.sxmparliament.org There is some kind of a session going on now, but the session about the Dutch aid is supposed to be 4 PM today. And yes, the SXM government has fallen many times, but I would doubt it in this situation.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: MrWhiskerssammy]
#147141
10/26/2017 06:02 PM
10/26/2017 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 705 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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MrWhiskerssammy said: Couldn't have said it any better myself. Most of the St. Maarten politicians are in it only for themselves. Not all of them, but for sure most of them. It is about time for their constituents to demand they do what they were elected to do--and that is take care of St. Maarten residents. I can't for the life of me imagine why the same bunch of thieves who have lied to them in the past over and over keep being elected. Sounds like Congress. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Kennys]
#147145
10/26/2017 07:41 PM
10/26/2017 07:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,635 Brookfield, CT.
pat
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Kennys said: It was stopped with walk outs . Are you saying the SXM government officials walked out?! OMG! Is it time to recall them all?
Respectfully,
pat
"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them."
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Kennys]
#147149
10/26/2017 08:40 PM
10/26/2017 08:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Lesley--again, what did your statement about people walking out, what does that mean??
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: BGH]
#147157
10/27/2017 09:22 AM
10/27/2017 09:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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You are assuming that they WANT to hold a meeting. They have been doing this stuff for years. Someone doesn't show up so they don't have a quorum, so they can have an excuse not to do anything. As I said, 'fiddling while Rome burns'..
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: BGH]
#147159
10/27/2017 10:35 AM
10/27/2017 10:35 AM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,635 Brookfield, CT.
pat
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For well over thirty years I’ve been trying to understand how the government operates here, and why the people keep electing the same ilk of officials election after election. To this day I still don’t get it.
But I do get ‘the people’ are currently getting screwed. They need help and they need it now and the government seems to be going out of its way to see that help doesn’t come.
What a shame the higher powers in control of the purse strings should ask for transparency and accountability with regard to the millions of Euros involved here, (she says with tongue firmly planted in cheek!) .........
God help the people of SXM. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />
Respectfully,
pat
"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them."
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#147161
10/27/2017 12:15 PM
10/27/2017 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,141 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem
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I am confused with all these political posts here. I thought politics was not tolerated on the forum.In the past, posts have been shut down because of this, but somehow SXM politics seems to be different.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Snorkeller]
#147167
10/28/2017 07:45 AM
10/28/2017 07:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,288
PelicanPirate
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I dont know sxm government structure at all. But I did here Marlin speak manyntimes on the radio after the storm. Seems very bright. It cant be easy governing any Caribbean island. Look at PR if you dont like GEBE.
As for the oversight, there has to be some, the question is how much.
I do know many countries of the world get handcuffed when the IMF comes in to “help” with loans and all during financial crises.
That may not apply here as might just be aid coming that does not require strings or repayment and dutch just want to make sure not squandered orr corrupted, how will the dutch hand out the cash? Is it aid or a loan? Who decides amounts?
Anyway, like i said, dont understand govt structure or what the dutch are giving and demanding exactly.
Last edited by PelicanPirate; 10/28/2017 07:48 AM.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: BGH]
#147170
10/28/2017 11:00 AM
10/28/2017 11:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 705 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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The Islands Govt. corruption has been well documented...... they don't sign the deal as is......no $$$$. Where is the SXM $$$ for the rebuild???
Last edited by SXMBND; 10/28/2017 11:02 AM.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: bksm]
#147172
10/28/2017 02:13 PM
10/28/2017 02:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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My understanding is that he feels it is a violation of SXM's independent status as a country. .....meanwhile, there will be no country left, as a result of his hubris..
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: sasasal]
#147175
10/29/2017 10:26 AM
10/29/2017 10:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,571 Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman
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sasasal said: this government is very corrupt... Many residents are aware of this. Marlin has taken money from investers, and put it in his pocket...this is what I have been told. Why this continues??? Not sure... It kind of reminds me of Puerto rico, they want to be independent, but want the U.S. to pour money in... Hope this does not offend anyone, but this is a reality... Your either independent or not... St.M. with this government can not survive... Marlin should give up all the money he received from Chinese investers to rebuild the Island My opinion, and that of many that live on Island Lots of allegations. Where is the documented proof?
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: SXMScubaman]
#147176
10/29/2017 10:53 AM
10/29/2017 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 705 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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Interesting facts and probable motivation for the Dutch Govt. insistence to rules regarding the bailout $$$$
From Wikipedia:
"Debt
On November 2, 2006, the Dutch government set aside 65 million guilders (NAF) to pay off St. Maarten's debts. The Dutch portion of the island became a country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands in 2010. While this was beneficial in some ways, the decision has shifted more responsibilities over to the island and with those, more debt.[5] Since St. Maarten became an autonomous country in 2010, it has never had a balanced budget and it has accumulated a debt of 200 million guilders (NAF) according to a statement by the Minister of Finance in December 2015.[20][21]"
This is a country of less than 40,000 citizens........do the math folks. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by SXMBND; 10/29/2017 10:55 AM.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: SXMBND]
#147177
10/29/2017 12:13 PM
10/29/2017 12:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,295 Vancouver, WA
Todd
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Doing the math- updated with new starting numbers 200,000,000 NAF divided by 40,000 people = 5000 NAF per person. 5000 NAF per person equals about $2850 USD.
In the US our national debt is about $60,000 per person. That equals about $106,0000 in NAF.
If the SXM debt was at the same rate as here in the US per person then they would be at $4,240,000,000 NAF or about $2,400,000,000 USD.
Spin this what ever way you want and have a great morning. Feel free to correct any math errors, still early here on the West Coast. Cheers, Todd
Last edited by Todd; 10/29/2017 01:47 PM.
I prefer the Isle seat
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Todd]
#147178
10/29/2017 02:37 PM
10/29/2017 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 705 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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Todd said: Doing the math- updated with new starting numbers 200,000,000 NAF divided by 40,000 people = 5000 NAF per person. 5000 NAF per person equals about $2850 USD.
In the US our national debt is about $60,000 per person. That equals about $106,0000 in NAF.
If the SXM debt was at the same rate as here in the US per person then they would be at $4,240,000,000 NAF or about $2,400,000,000 USD.
Spin this what ever way you want and have a great morning. Feel free to correct any math errors, still early here on the West Coast. Cheers, Todd There was no intent to make a comparison between a country of 250+ million people.....1/2 of which pay no taxes, and are taken care of cradle to grave by the government and a COUNTRYwith a population (~40K) that would be representative in size of a small U.S CITY. That comparison would be foolish. A couple a hundred Million $$$$ are generated yearly as a direct result of tourism taxes alone, T/S.....airport, cruise ships. They obviously don't spend diddly on infrastructure,military or entitlements......so tell us where the money goes????
Last edited by SXMBND; 10/29/2017 02:38 PM.
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: SXMBND]
#147182
10/29/2017 05:09 PM
10/29/2017 05:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,295 Vancouver, WA
Todd
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I just did the math and added a comparison for reference, I could have used Canada or France which is about half of what the US is but easier to relate to where most of us live. I think Netherlands per person debt is about $38k in USD but a bit more difficult to be sure of. Not political, not saying anything is right, just did math as requested with the info given with a slightly researched reference point. Cheers, T
I prefer the Isle seat
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: SXMBND]
#147183
10/29/2017 09:50 PM
10/29/2017 09:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 68 Spring,Texas
ARC
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SXMBND said:Todd said: Doing the math- updated with new starting numbers 200,000,000 NAF divided by 40,000 people = 5000 NAF per person. 5000 NAF per person equals about $2850 USD.
In the US our national debt is about $60,000 per person. That equals about $106,0000 in NAF.
If the SXM debt was at the same rate as here in the US per person then they would be at $4,240,000,000 NAF or about $2,400,000,000 USD.
Spin this what ever way you want and have a great morning. Feel free to correct any math errors, still early here on the West Coast. Cheers, Todd There was no intent to make a comparison between a country of 250+ million people.....1/2 of which pay no taxes, and are taken care of cradle to grave by the government and a COUNTRYwith a population (~40K) that would be representative in size of a small U.S CITY. That comparison would be foolish. A couple a hundred Million $$$$ are generated yearly as a direct result of tourism taxes alone, T/S.....airport, cruise ships. They obviously don't spend diddly on infrastructure,military or entitlements......so tell us where the money goes???? Sounds like a typical west coast train of thought! Nice comeback SXMBND, very true!
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: sasasal]
#147186
10/30/2017 01:29 PM
10/30/2017 01:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 246
BlueGreenWater
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sasasal said: Sometimes you do not need documented proof. Do you really think government can not hide things????? This is an Island, who has the power to get real proof... The proof is in the aligations from many people over the years... Ask the residents what they think!!! Not ttol people.. "Sometimes you do not need documented proof....The proof is in the aligations..." Ummm, no. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Snorkeller]
#147188
10/30/2017 06:38 PM
10/30/2017 06:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,485 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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I saw that in the DH today about Brownbill. Doing what needs to be done, hopefully.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dutch government firm on conditions
[Re: Kennys]
#147194
10/31/2017 09:51 AM
10/31/2017 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 705 South Coast of MA
SXMBND
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Kennys said: He tried a "late change " after he learnt about what was going to happen to him. Typical politician. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" />
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