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Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Catmandu] #160748
05/13/2018 05:54 PM
05/13/2018 05:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 94
New Jersey
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Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160749
05/13/2018 05:57 PM
05/13/2018 05:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Morrisville, PA/West End, Tort...
Aries4 Offline
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Morrisville, PA/West End, Tort...
Benures Bay? Garner Bay?


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Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Aries4] #160750
05/13/2018 06:32 PM
05/13/2018 06:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,198
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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Originally Posted by Aries4
Benures Bay? Garner Bay?


You need a anchorage with lots of Moorings. Benures bay would be destroyed if they put the WillyT there.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160754
05/13/2018 10:01 PM
05/13/2018 10:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,963
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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Benures Bay is out. Dr. J doesn't want the Willy T anywhere near Norman Island.

Just spitballing a little. The only place the Willt T could move to with similar protection and maintain the traffic volume would be Christmas Cove. It would also be an additional incentive to charter out of the USVI. That would also make Dr. Smith question his actions even more. Already I suspect he is finding that, from a PR standpoint at lease, the tail he has grabbed has teeth on the other end.

Last edited by GlennA; 05/13/2018 10:23 PM.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: GlennA] #160768
05/14/2018 11:36 AM
05/14/2018 11:36 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,892
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Online crying
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I still think Soper's Hole is an option..just outside the mouth of the harbour. The added bonus would be if Ewan ran a boat shuttle from the old Fish N Lime dock for landlubbers..could get a lot of land business as well as boats that way..and God knows we need something else on the West End of Tortola..

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Manpot] #160773
05/14/2018 12:26 PM
05/14/2018 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 456
Oak Park, IL
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That would be great for West End and would be a short run for USVI folks and from Tortola generally. I wonder, though, if the ferry wakes and wind gusts would make it untenable.

Diamond Cay would be another good option. There’s good holding, it’s close to Tortola and C&I, he could run water taxis from Fish & Lime to there too, and along with B-Line and Foxy’s Taboo would make the E end of JVD quite a hot spot.

I think anywhere the Willy T goes there would be some NIMBY opposition, either from home owners or existing business owners, so this is going to be a tough puzzle to solve.


Tom Garvey
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160797
05/14/2018 05:35 PM
05/14/2018 05:35 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 762
Louisville, KY
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Just wondering .... Did the owner of the Willy T show poor judgement in leaving the wreckage of the former boat laying on shore and debris on the sea floor. It has been approximately 9 months since the hurricane destroyed the old Willy T, and I haven't read anything regarding the clean-up. If the owner of the Willy T was only interested in replacing his former boat, and perhaps showed little interest in the mess he left on someone else's property .... that property owner might have little sympathy or motivation in the matter. I don't know, perhaps someone could comment.


Noel Hall
"It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time."

www.noelhall.com
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160800
05/14/2018 06:34 PM
05/14/2018 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Panama City Beach, Florida
xrayman67 Offline
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I did see a video of a barge crane trying to remove the old Willy T a few months back. The crane collapsed backwards on to a cat sitting on the deck of the barge.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160802
05/14/2018 07:42 PM
05/14/2018 07:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,963
Macon, Georgia
GlennA Offline
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My understanding is that they have cleaned up all the minor pieces but the hull is still on the beach awaiting a replacement crane. The Willy T was close to maximum capacity for the crane that attempted the first lift. It had to be brought in very close attempting to improve leverage and keep the barge stable. The boom was only a few degrees off vertical and when a choker broke the rebound flipped the boom over backwards. Unfortunately for the only lightly damaged cat on the barge deck there nothing to hold a boom once it goes over vertical.

That has nothing to do with the current situation however. This is simply that Dr. Jarecki has wanted the Willy T gone for the last 19 years and saw irma as an opportunity to call in some chips.

Last edited by GlennA; 05/14/2018 07:47 PM.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160803
05/14/2018 09:14 PM
05/14/2018 09:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 247
Redmond, WA
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Redmond, WA
For us, Pirate's prices after the rebuild already amounted to a de facto boycott. We still visit, but eat and drink aboard.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160830
05/15/2018 01:08 PM
05/15/2018 01:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 240
Texas
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I'll be boycotting Pirates, but will NOT be avoiding the Bight on my next trip. Nope - I'll be the obnoxious PIRATE blasting inappropriate music and dancing naked in the bay. Take THAT, Dr J.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160849
05/15/2018 03:32 PM
05/15/2018 03:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 371
now - or when ?
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now - or when ?
This thread is hilarious
Y'all realize there is 5 sides to every story... true?

Yeah... plunk the new "ting" (LOL- sorry Mal) in Apple Bay.. in front of Manpot's place.....
His place will be full into perpetuity

and... I'll finally have a way of getting to WillyT's... w/o a seafaring raft

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160854
05/15/2018 03:50 PM
05/15/2018 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 668
Middleburg, VA
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Middleburg, VA
All is not lost yet …. a friend of mine sent me this today:


"Looks like the Willie T will be stationed at Great harbor Peter Island. Permits are being finalized today. So.....looks like you can still "jump naked with a painkiller “!!"

More to come .......


Chuck W.
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Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160856
05/15/2018 04:13 PM
05/15/2018 04:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,591
St. John, USVI
RickG Offline
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St. John, USVI
There has to be a great back story here.

Cheers, RickG


S/V Echoes, 2003 Benetau 423
St. John, USVI
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Manpot] #160857
05/15/2018 04:16 PM
05/15/2018 04:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 55
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jwh445 Offline
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I would love to see the Willy T and all it's debauchery anchor in the bay at Peter Island's harbor. :-)

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160858
05/15/2018 04:46 PM
05/15/2018 04:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 285
Hilton Head, SC
Steve27 Offline
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Read today that the Willy-T will be in Great Harbor on Peter Island now. Hopefully they will have their own mooring balls since Peter Island balls are $60.


Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Steve27] #160861
05/15/2018 04:55 PM
05/15/2018 04:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,084
Toledo, OH, USA
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Originally Posted by Steve27
Read today that the Willy-T will be in Great Harbor on Peter Island now. Hopefully they will have their own mooring balls since Peter Island balls are $60.


We just stayed in Great Harbor Peter Island, ball was $30 for the night. Those balls are owned by Oceans 7. Same price as they were everywhere else.


Colleen


[Linked Image]


Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Orange_Burst] #160865
05/15/2018 05:10 PM
05/15/2018 05:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 285
Hilton Head, SC
Steve27 Offline
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Ok great! We are headed down in July and looking to try there then. Thanks for the info!


Cruising the local waters here in SC and GA. Love the BVIs and miss the Tradewinds!
Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160934
05/16/2018 01:29 PM
05/16/2018 01:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 240
Texas
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So I *say* I will overnight in the Bight next time, but I guess if HE gets what he wants, there soon won't be affordable balls, and anchoring will be banned? drown

Are we staying abreast of this proposed "arrangement" between Dr J and government that will affect the public's use of the waters and shore up to the vegetation line around Norman? handshake

Am I the only one that's really sick of the Uber rich taking away our rights to use GOD given natural spaces? cloud

Am I afraid my name will be put on some "list" for a cavity search by customs next time I visit? eek

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: CGB] #160951
05/16/2018 05:51 PM
05/16/2018 05:51 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,892
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Online crying
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Would love to see a new "Ting" in Apple Bay...still hoping to have our summer beach party..more to come! Maybe we can get the " T" to anchor in front of CRC for a few hours..Ewan??

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #160955
05/16/2018 06:28 PM
05/16/2018 06:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 624
Memphis, BVI, CT
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I am hoping that, with the government’s involvement, Dr. J’s new development will be every bit as successful as Prospect Reef.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: RatmansWife] #160994
05/17/2018 10:30 AM
05/17/2018 10:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Originally Posted by RatmansWife
I am hoping that, with the government’s involvement, Dr. J’s new development will be every bit as successful as Prospect Reef.


It would be just as successful if the Willy T was in the harbor.
A lot of celebrities and Mega yachts have visited the T.
I even saw Michael Douglas and Zeta there in 2006.
Only a minority of the guests would be too stuffy to complain.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161031
05/17/2018 04:05 PM
05/17/2018 04:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 430
Charlotte, NC
DEL Offline
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Charlotte, NC
Interesting to think about the status of the various traditional resorts in the BVI right now. Peter Island, Biras Creek, Little Dix, Bitter End... Guana appears to be open on their website and Facebook, but not per BVI Traveller. Sailing has been the core tourist attraction for 50+ years. Biras Creek closes and no one seems to care. If I were running the BVI government, I would put the emphasis on attracting more sailors (but reduce the racing for mooring balls). They have a great competitive advantage against the other Caribbean islands.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Catmandu] #161040
05/17/2018 05:44 PM
05/17/2018 05:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 489
Jacksonville, FL, USA
onlymedication Offline
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Jacksonville, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Catmandu
Remember this a boat not a land based restaurant/bar therefore easy to relocate. Does it really matter where they end up. We will all certainty cruise there assuming still in BVI. Question is where? I can imagine it in a more remote harbor/cove as to not tread on other existing businesses.



Not much remote left in the BVI.

"They paved paradise to put up a parking lot."

I wasn't even a big fan of Willie T, per se. Just not my or my wife's style, really. Our favorites were more along the lines of the peace and serenity of Cow Wreck. But we enjoyed going there, and definitely enjoyed watching the revellers move to and fro and enjoy themselves. They weren't hurting anyone, except for maybe themselves on occasion. The loss of Willie T, in and of itself, isn't really that big of a deal to me, personally. But it means a lot to many, and more particularly, the how and why of the loss (or moving) of the Willie T is a strong statement of the priorities of the BVI Gov't. It's got me feeling very sad.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161054
05/18/2018 09:36 AM
05/18/2018 09:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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Sea&SkiPJ Offline
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I'm relatively new here, so please forgive me if I offend anyone...

I've only chartered in the BVI three times, the last one with my kids, both in their twenties. They're joining my wife and me this July when we return for our fourth trip. When I told them that the Willie T would be absent from the Bight, their response was "oh well, we'll still have a great time."

The Willie T was iconic, to be sure. Watching drunken revelers toss themselves naked off the top deck was amusing, if only for a moment. And while its loss is sad and painful to some, I don't think the BVI economy is going to collapse without the Willie T.

On the other hand, two massive hurricanes that obliterate the businesses and infrastructure of the islands would crash the economy.

I love the BVI and return there to spend my money, even while having wonderful sailing options like Nantucket, Block Island, Martha's Vineyard and Narragansett Bay. My history with the BVI is far less extensive than many folks here and my experience with the government is equally less established.

But if I were managing the BVI economy, I'd ask, is the Willie T going to employ all those people whose jobs were lost when the businesses in which they were working were washed away? Is the Willie T going to pay for all of the medical treatment for injuries sustained during the storms? Will it pay to clean up the landscape, pave the roads, rebuild businesses and homes? Will it provide enough tax revenue for the government to pay for adequate law enforcement, emergency services, transportation hubs, or schools for the children of residents? Honestly, the owners of the Willie T were unable to find an effective solution for getting its carcass off the beach (I know they tried, but they failed and it seems like they gave up). Is that attractive to sailors spending tens of thousands of dollars on vacations?

Having small, quaint businesses within an economic eco-system is a necessary and desirable thing. But, despite being distasteful to many, the long-term health and sustainability of the islands will be built on large capital investment, job creation and tax revenues.
That's capitalism. Let's face it, the sailing destinations of New England are doing quite well with a mix of small and large businesses, but without their version of the Willie T. I think the BVI will live without it too. Maybe the thing to do is take a deep breath, relax, remember the Willie T with fondness and move on.

I suppose, those who are truly repulsed by this can exercise their right to avoid the BVI and sail elsewhere. I respect that. I also appreciate the vacant mooring ball that will produce.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161055
05/18/2018 10:34 AM
05/18/2018 10:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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The Willy T is one of many businesses in the BVI and yes it pays taxes and produces jobs like many other small businesses it also supports plenty of small satellite businesses that supply them with inventory, maintenance Etc.
To downplay the importance of a small successful business is detrimental to health of the economy

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161056
05/18/2018 10:50 AM
05/18/2018 10:50 AM
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Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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Sea&SkiPJ Offline
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Massachusetts
I don't disagree and I'm not downplaying it. As I said, small business are necessary. Combined, they contribute to the overall economy.

But losing one small business has far less of an impact than losing a larger resort, like the BEYC, for example, who employs far more people, supports far more ancillary businesses and pays significantly more taxes. Without these properties and, come to think of it, charter companies, which are larger entities, small businesses could not sustain the economy of the BVI.

If the government is looking to bolster the economy through the development of similar properties, it's hard to question that thinking.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161058
05/18/2018 11:00 AM
05/18/2018 11:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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It’s obvious that larger businesses employ and pay more taxes, but to deliberately prevent a previously successful smaller business from operating sets a negative precedent

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161059
05/18/2018 11:15 AM
05/18/2018 11:15 AM
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Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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Sea&SkiPJ Offline
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Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.

It will be interesting to see how things develop over time.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161060
05/18/2018 11:37 AM
05/18/2018 11:37 AM
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Posts: 4,084
Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst Offline
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Originally Posted by Sea&SkiPJ
Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.

It will be interesting to see how things develop over time.


The first year I visited the BVI's, 2000, there were plans in the works for a big resort at Norman Island, you see where that is today?


Colleen


[Linked Image]


Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161061
05/18/2018 11:39 AM
05/18/2018 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
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Sea&SkiPJ Offline
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Does that mean that nothing will ever happen there?

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161062
05/18/2018 11:42 AM
05/18/2018 11:42 AM
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Toledo, OH, USA
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Probably not in my lifetime, 19 years later, nothing has happened.


Colleen


[Linked Image]


Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161064
05/18/2018 11:53 AM
05/18/2018 11:53 AM
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Massachusetts
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Well, my first visit to the Bight was 1992. There was an old restaurant there, pretty run down, I think. The Jarecki's changed it to Pirates's Bight in 1999 after purchasing the island, subsequently sinking over $1.5MM into it.

People may not care for the restaurant or the land lord, I'm not judging, but, something clearly has happened since 1992.

That is a precedent.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see what happens. In the meantime, I'll continue to support the BVI economy by spending my money there.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Orange_Burst] #161070
05/18/2018 12:48 PM
05/18/2018 12:48 PM
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Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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It will probably happen in the next two or three years because the economy is on its way to booming once again and things will be going full speed ahead and in the next twenty years it will convert the BVI from a tropical paradise to an urban upscale PC jungle

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161072
05/18/2018 12:52 PM
05/18/2018 12:52 PM
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Posts: 300
Rockford, Michigan
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Rockford, Michigan
Originally Posted by Sea&SkiPJ
Well, my first visit to the Bight was 1992. ...


Our first, and last, vist to the Bight was in 1995. There was one boat there - ours - and more goats on the hills than we had ever seen or heard in one place. Roosters have nothing on goats as alarm clocks. We skipped the place on every BVI charter since, as the Willie T was not our cup of tea. We really like Great Harbor, and walking the path to the PIR for painkillers at the Beach Club. Something tells me those days are probably over. Too much non-resort traffic, goodbye path. boohoo

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: Sea&SkiPJ] #161073
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Originally Posted by Sea&SkiPJ
Possibly. Or it opens the door for large capital investment, which may result in substantially greater sustained overall benefit.

It will be interesting to see how things develop over time.


The issue is not whether capital investment is good or bad. Rather, its that the politically connected owner of Norman Island exerted pressure to prevent the Willy T from reopening in the Bight because it did not fit with his planned development. There is also the anti competitive aspect. Jarecki used his political influence to eliminate the only competition for his restaurant. The Bight is not owned by Jarecki. This may be the way things work in the real world but that doesn't mean people should just accept it.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: aarpskier] #161074
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
05/18/2018 01:05 PM
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Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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There haven’t been any goats on Norman island since the early 2000’s the developers felt the same as you and they hired a hunter to shoot them all and left them where the fell to enriches the soil.
Your dream seems to be comimg true as the resorts move in the “non-resort traffic” will disappear.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: NCSailor] #161075
05/18/2018 01:14 PM
05/18/2018 01:14 PM
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Posts: 2,592
VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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I agree completely, they’re turning the the history and lore of the islands into a commercial venture.
Soon you’ll see millennium women trying to walk in the sand with high heels and complaining its to soft

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161076
05/18/2018 01:22 PM
05/18/2018 01:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
S
Sea&SkiPJ Offline
Traveler
Sea&SkiPJ  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 61
Massachusetts
Any entrepreneur knows, competition is actually a good thing, but...

People don't have to accept it. Freedom of choice allows everyone to decide how to comport themselves. If you don't want to support what's going on there, then simply sail somewhere else. That's how consumers exert their pressure. Otherwise, it's the golden rule: he who holds the gold, makes the rules.

Change is inevitable. First, I hope that in twenty years I can still operate a yacht in the BVI. That alone will be noteworthy. Second, I hope those who push for change will read this post and consider those whose passions beckon for a simpler, greener, and more compassionate evolution. Who knows, stranger things have happened.

In the meantime, I'll still sail with unbridled joy and passion, because for me, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.

Cheers.

Re: Willy T...denied [Re: jpfitzy7] #161080
05/18/2018 02:15 PM
05/18/2018 02:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,084
Toledo, OH, USA
Orange_Burst Offline
Traveler
Orange_Burst  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,084
Toledo, OH, USA
The old restaurant was called Billy Bones, it closed in April of 2002, we happen to be there on their last night in business.


Colleen


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