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Club O FAQ on insurance situation #167662
08/13/2018 03:04 PM
08/13/2018 03:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,423
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PelicanPirate Offline OP
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Go to their Facebook for a very interesting and detailed explanation of the situation under the tiitle FAQ #5.

Dont want to duplicate their work but do want to point people that way if inclined.

Very enlightening.

SXM Sponsors
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167668
08/13/2018 04:06 PM
08/13/2018 04:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 588
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Since there are people here who are not also on Facebook, and since this is a really important update (directly from Club O management):

"So, what’s the problem with the insurance?

We have been asked this multiple times and have avoided trying to give more than a cursory answer. We are still limited in what we can say as there are a host of attorneys involved in getting the problem rectified.
First, I need to preface this by saying once again there are two separate entities to Club Orient Resort. One is Orient Beach Club (OBC) which is the management company and employs all the staff, provides utilities, does the marketing, reservations and a host of other things.
The copropriété or Copro for short is similar to a Homeowners Association. They represent the homeowners at Club Orient and are represented by an elected Board of Directors with a President. In addition, they retain a Syndic which is a professional property manager, who pays their bills and assists them in conducting Copro business.
These are two distinct and separate entities with different regulations and mandates. OBC is a French Corporation called an SAS and has shareholders which are comprised of most of the homeowners, with certain conditions.
Under French law the OBC must be a profit-making company, whereas the Copro must be a non-profit organization.
Now, just on the above paragraphs we could drone on endlessly on where they work in tandem for the benefit of Club Orient and where they must operate independently of each other. But, they are not adversarial, even when disagreements arise. Both entities want a vibrant and strong Club Orient!
When it comes time for insurance to be purchased every year, the two organizations must solicit and negotiate their policies separately. This has always been the case.
OBC owns very few structures. The Warehouse, Utility buildings, Housekeeping building, Water sports and Spa building as well as the boutique.
The Copro is responsible for all the infrastructure both above and below ground and all the other buildings, plus the landscaping on their property. A much larger and more expensive proposition.
After Irma wreaked havoc on us we (OBC) retained an insurance expert. Yes, in France the insurance company does not send out an insurance adjuster. You are required to hire one, at your expense and the money is deducted from your insurance proceeds.
It was determined that OBC suffered a total loss and the insurance company agreed to pay the full-face value of our policy. This included coverage for our structures, business interruption, as well as several lesser categories.
These funds were received by OBC on October 31, 2017. This has allowed us to continue to pay our staff “chomage partial” (explained in previous updates) as required by law, rent office space, maintain our website and many other things such as; building the Perch Lite and purchasing supplies for Cedric at Water sports to name just two.
What OBC did not have the ability to legally do was to effect any repairs or even clean-up on the property belong to the Copropriété. This was very frustrating for all concerned.
The Copro retained their own insurance expert who also declared the Copro property a total loss and submitted the necessary paperwork to the insurance company.
The insurance company, after months of inaction, raised the question of should they forward proceeds to Copro’s syndic, or directly to each individual owner. Copro wanted the proceeds to go directly to the syndic so that rebuilding contracts could be signed and work could begin immediately. The insurance company required a majority of owners to provide a power of attorney for this action, which was provided.
I’ll spare you the back and forth which followed, bs time consuming and frustrating and still has not resulted in one penny of money being sent to the Copro.
Now add into the mix that there is a very small minority of homeowners who seem to be bent on destroying Club Orient and basically turning it into a rest home for themselves. They have not paid homeowner dues OR INSURANCE PREMIUMS for 10 years! Yet, they have written to the insurance company demanding insurance proceeds be sent directly to them. They have also advised the insurance company that the Syndic is not authorized to receive any of the proceeds.
Unbelievable as it sounds, even though they have contributed nothing to the Copro or the insurance, and owe approximately one million euros in dues, under French law they are still considered members of the Copro. When this occurred the insurance company, not wishing to be sued by either the Copro or the small group of non-paying owners, simply said we will not release any funds until this is settled. There are now 4 lawyers working on this case for Copro and the belief is that there will be funds forthcoming sometime in the Fall. Unfortunately, that will be too late to have units ready for occupancy this high season.
You may ask why you don’t just buy them out. Many people have tried to do just that, and every offer has been refused. The goal of this group appears to be the destruction of Club Orient, not money.
We realize the above may raise as many questions as it answers, but it is very difficult to explain every detail of what has transpired over the last eleven months. This is especially true when you are dealing with the laws of another country, which may be vastly different than your own.
The Copro is very positive about eventually prevailing in all the above challenges. But, OBC is currently a management company, with no resort to manage and unlike the Copro they have significant obligations each month.
OBC is exploring every option at its disposal under French law to continue operating, even with no revenue. This continues to be more challenging with each passing month. But, the Copro is ultimately responsible for the rebirth of Club Orient and by not being burdened by the monthly obligations which face OBC, they remain confident the obstacles which they currently face will be overcome."

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167670
08/13/2018 05:01 PM
08/13/2018 05:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,407
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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No Comment but thank you for posting!


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167671
08/13/2018 05:20 PM
08/13/2018 05:20 PM
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Posts: 1,423
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PelicanPirate Offline OP
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You’re closer to the Club O family so thanks for putting it on here. Didnt want to rouse things but Yes it is a big explanation update.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167674
08/13/2018 05:48 PM
08/13/2018 05:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 588
jenniboston Offline
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Yes, I'm glad this information is finally out there! It's been hard holding my tongue as all the wild speculation and incorrect theories have been flying about! hairy

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167680
08/13/2018 07:24 PM
08/13/2018 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 974
Louisiana
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jenniboston,Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post that. I am not on Facebook, so I was a little uneducated on what was really going on.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167686
08/14/2018 12:18 AM
08/14/2018 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,812
Royersford, PA (30m NW of Phil...
Biturbo Offline
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I truly appreciate what Club Orient is doing to erase all the wild speculation. It is a difficult situation, and I fully trust their honesty. They had plans to at least have some units available before this upcoming high season and are just as disappointed as those hoping to rent them are.


"It's a magic kind of medicine, that no doctor could prescribe." JB
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167687
08/14/2018 12:24 AM
08/14/2018 12:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 198
Edam, Saskatchewan - Canada
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PrairieGirl Offline
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"They have not paid homeowner dues OR INSURANCE PREMIUMS for 10 years!" My question is out of genuine curiosity - was there no recourse for this, why would the Copro allow this to happen for such an extended period of time?


LeAnn


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Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167698
08/14/2018 08:38 AM
08/14/2018 08:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 337
SeaStar Offline
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SeaStar  Offline
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Thank you for posting this information.
Do you know how many owners/units are causing this situation?

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167699
08/14/2018 09:13 AM
08/14/2018 09:13 AM
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Posts: 719
Paris VA USA
JimRuos Offline
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Re: Homeowners who have not paid dues or insurance, might those be those who have taken their units out of the rental pool? Regardless, wishing an early resolution of the issue for all. … Jim

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: JimRuos] #167701
08/14/2018 09:48 AM
08/14/2018 09:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Toronto, Ontario
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lovemysxm Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
One and the same.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167702
08/14/2018 10:08 AM
08/14/2018 10:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,407
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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"What OBC did not have the ability to legally do was to effect any repairs or even clean-up on the property belong to the Copropriété."

This statement makes me wonder how perch lite was built?
Beach Vending is rental of chairs, umbrellas, water sports and massage services which needs a beach vending permit.
Food and Beverage is a different Concession License.


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: sxmmartini] #167703
08/14/2018 10:13 AM
08/14/2018 10:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 14,268
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Quote
"What OBC did not have the ability to legally do was to effect any repairs or even clean-up on the property belong to the Copropriété."

This statement makes me wonder how perch lite was built?
Beach Vending is rental of chairs, umbrellas, water sports and massage services which needs a beach vending permit.
Food and Beverage is a different Concession License.


Perhaps it was not built legally. Imagine that.


J.D.
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167704
08/14/2018 10:19 AM
08/14/2018 10:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 218
London,Ontario CDN
JMSH Offline
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Just guessing but I would think that the concern of these certain owners, not paying dues or insurance premiums, has been known for years. I am sure that there was some legal steps that could/should have been taken years ago to rectify the situation. For whatever reason those steps were not taken.......now the [censored] has hit the fan and items that should have been settled years earlier MUST be settled now. Sometimes sticking your head in the sand (even on Orient Beach) has sad consequences.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: JMSH] #167708
08/14/2018 11:57 AM
08/14/2018 11:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Toronto, Ontario
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lovemysxm Offline
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“For whatever reason those steps were not taken .....” And what facts are you aware of that allows you to make such a statement?

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167710
08/14/2018 12:14 PM
08/14/2018 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 218
London,Ontario CDN
JMSH Offline
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JMSH  Offline
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Look at the first two words of my reply!

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167714
08/14/2018 01:01 PM
08/14/2018 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,658
Portland, OR
jazzgal Offline
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I don't have a dog in this hunt, but that was an excellent explanation for those of us on the periphery. Thanks for posting.


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Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: JMSH] #167719
08/14/2018 02:48 PM
08/14/2018 02:48 PM
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Posts: 588
jenniboston Offline
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Originally Posted by JMSH
Just guessing but I would think that the concern of these certain owners, not paying dues or insurance premiums, has been known for years. I am sure that there was some legal steps that could/should have been taken years ago to rectify the situation. For whatever reason those steps were not taken.......now the [censored] has hit the fan and items that should have been settled years earlier MUST be settled now. Sometimes sticking your head in the sand (even on Orient Beach) has sad consequences.


Well, you guessed wrong. duh

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167720
08/14/2018 03:16 PM
08/14/2018 03:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,544
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
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Was that "duh" really necessary?

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: SXMScubaman] #167721
08/14/2018 03:20 PM
08/14/2018 03:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,701
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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OK, let's just keep our cool here folks and keep it civil.


Carol Hill
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167728
08/14/2018 05:08 PM
08/14/2018 05:08 PM
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Posts: 148
Unionville, PA
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In the US we all know what happens when you don't pay HOA fees. The HOA sues you, gets a judgment and puts your property up for sale.

It does not work that way in France. The legal system runs slowly so that people are so disgusted they work things out on their own. That favors people not necessarily looking for justice. That is how Reint Brink was able to fend off the majority owners for years.

The owners were not sitting on their hands doing nothing. I personally offered to mediate the dispute. The majority owners were willing to mediate, but the group who were not paying into the condo association were not. By the way, Paul, Martin, Tom and others, that offer remains open.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167729
08/14/2018 05:38 PM
08/14/2018 05:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 168
Columbia, SC, USA
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Post the same thing in two places and get such different responses.....Responses from Facebook:

So sorry for Club O employees and Club O patrons to hear this news. Thinking of you all and praying that you are and will be well with this setback.
Thanks and I will wait patiently for your reopening.
My favorite place ever, so looking forward to returning. Sending lots of positive energy your way.
So, so sad. We miss you so much.
Selfish people! How sad, Paradise is on hold just for them! Praying for a positive outcome for Club O! We love you Club O!
Thank you for getting this update out! I've got scars on my tongue from bitting it so hard these past couple of months!
A great write up, thanks!!
So sad that such a small number of people are holding the rest in thrall.
So very sad that a few are making it so bad for thousands!!!!!
Very confusing to me, but I am confidant Club O is handling everything properly.
Thanks Steve that explains a lot. Good luck
So sad, but praying for a resolution and to come back when all is rebuilt
Thank you for the continuing updates
Hope all gets done and the place once again are full of laughter and sun


Love the positive nature of these comments!



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Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: DandM29212] #167732
08/14/2018 06:03 PM
08/14/2018 06:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 455
Maine
SXMbeacher Online content
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Maine
So true!.......... Love your trip ticker!

Last edited by SXMbeacher; 08/14/2018 06:05 PM.


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Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: DandM29212] #167734
08/14/2018 06:25 PM
08/14/2018 06:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 588
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Agreed! thumbsup

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: Maitre_Jim] #167735
08/14/2018 07:08 PM
08/14/2018 07:08 PM
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Posts: 6,407
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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sxmmartini  Offline
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Originally Posted by Maitre_Jim
In the US we all know what happens when you don't pay HOA fees. The HOA sues you, gets a judgment and puts your property up for sale.

It does not work that way in France. The legal system runs slowly so that people are so disgusted they work things out on their own. That favors people not necessarily looking for justice. That is how Reint Brink was able to fend off the majority owners for years.

The owners were not sitting on their hands doing nothing. I personally offered to mediate the dispute. The majority owners were willing to mediate, but the group who were not paying into the condo association were not. By the way, Paul, Martin, Tom and others, that offer remains open.


Most HOA bylaws would put a lien on your property when it is sold. The owners not paying their fees probably will never sell their units.
It sounds like a mess and I personally don't care anymore as long as I can go to the beach!


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167755
08/15/2018 06:24 AM
08/15/2018 06:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,630
Oyster Pond St. Martin
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soualigacapt Offline
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These may be the same people from the last legal dispute that lost in court and were banned from the resort for 10 years.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: soualigacapt] #167757
08/15/2018 06:32 AM
08/15/2018 06:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 455
Maine
SXMbeacher Online content
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That's interesting.



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Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167773
08/15/2018 10:56 AM
08/15/2018 10:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,113
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Offline
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I would guess that some of these certain owners are members of TTOL. Maybe they would be willing to explain their position? Just sayin' smile

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: soualigacapt] #167797
08/15/2018 03:35 PM
08/15/2018 03:35 PM
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jenniboston Offline
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Originally Posted by soualigacapt
These may be the same people from the last legal dispute that lost in court and were banned from the resort for 10 years.


Correction: No owners (even the ones refusing to pay their dues) have been banned from the property.

Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: PelicanPirate] #167803
08/15/2018 03:51 PM
08/15/2018 03:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,407
Long Island, New York
sxmmartini Offline
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I was wondering about the insurance to contents of the Orient shop and reception. There was an original painting done by Nancy Corrigan which was hanging in the reception area worth $$$ Did they save the painting or was it destroyed in the hurricane?


"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it." Mae West
Re: Club O FAQ on insurance situation [Re: jenniboston] #167809
08/15/2018 04:54 PM
08/15/2018 04:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,630
Oyster Pond St. Martin
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soualigacapt Offline
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There was a legal dispute years ago and the French court ruled in favor of the resort because of the contract in effect and as punishment for starting the dispute, certain owners were banned from the resort of 10 years. I don't know if this was appealed but one owner I know had to beg on bended knees to not be included in the group and was allowed to use their beach side property.


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