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Why don't they dredge Angilla point? #182394
01/30/2019 08:38 AM
01/30/2019 08:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 487
OU Sooner
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ggffrr11 Offline OP
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ggffrr11  Offline OP
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Going from preaching to meddling here: The pass between Angilla point and Mosquito Isle (I can't find the proper name) > What would it cost to dredge this and place a red and green buoy? I wouldn't think this would be a very long channel to dredge. This would bring a lot of traffic into "Leverick Bay's" front door. This would save charter sailor's a bit of time entering North Sound (legally) even on their Iron Genny. I can guess what the political red tape would be like. But, what about costs/environmental factors?

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Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182409
01/30/2019 10:21 AM
01/30/2019 10:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,402
VI,PR,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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sail445  Offline
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Its not a matter of just dredging sand there are coral reefs throughout the area

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182416
01/30/2019 10:53 AM
01/30/2019 10:53 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 394
BaardJ Offline
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BaardJ  Offline
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There's a strong current tidal current there and even breaking seas with a heavy north swell so I could see the channel filling in again pretty quickly.

Local boats have been running the cut for years with apparently no problem and they know to avoid it when there's heavy north swell. For charterers it's only a 1.4nm (15 minute) longer route to Leverick via the already well marked, deep water Colqohoun passage, albeit a bit more windward work.

If the gov't actually had funds available, there are several buoyage projects they could undertake that would have a meaningful impact to boater safety (even though these hazards are well described in cruising guides that often go unread by charterers). SeaTow and Moorings would be a good source for a top 10 list.

1) Better mark the passage between Long Bay, Tortola and Little Camanoe. Although it's on most charter company 'off limits' area, I regularly see charter boats passing through here and I know of several boats that have ripped off their keel on the submerged rock midways in the channel.

2) Mark the semi-submerged rock that is ~300 yards east of Marina Cay. At least 2 boats have struck this in the past few years, and from the photo it looks like the power cat that went on the rocks last week also hit this one.

3) Improve the buoyage into the entrances to White Bay, JVD. Place a few yellow cans to mark the outer edge of the reef, similar to Johnson Reef, to help avoid charterers surfing their boat over the reef.

4) Place a buoy to seaward of Sandy Spit reef. A couple boats grounded on this reef in the past few years and were totaled.

5) Re-mark Saildoggie Rock off Sandy Cay with a more robust buoy, chain, and bottom screw.

6) Place a buoy or two to mark the shallow reef just west of the Government Pier at Setting Point, Anegada. Lots of boats have been pulled off this one.

7) Mark the Two Brothers reef on the approach to Anegada. Several boats have hit this by taking the direct route to/from Setting Point and North Sound.

8) Mark the semi-submerged rock that is 350 yards north of George Dog. I've not read of anyone hitting it, but it can be difficult to see at times.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182418
01/30/2019 11:05 AM
01/30/2019 11:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 303
Tampa, FL
denverd0n Offline
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denverd0n  Offline
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Tampa, FL
Well, it's been said, but just for emphasis, I will reiterate...

1. Not just sand, but coral reefs. It is not as simple as just dredging it.
2. You can't just dredge it once and be done. With the currents through there dredging would be a frequent, constant, on-going expense.

Better to spend that money in more useful/urgent ways.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: BaardJ] #182420
01/30/2019 11:26 AM
01/30/2019 11:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,063
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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GA/NC
[quote=BaardJ]There's a strong current tidal current there and even breaking seas with a heavy north swell so I could see the channel filling in again pretty quickly.

Local boats have been running the cut for years with apparently no problem and they know to avoid it when there's heavy north swell. For charterers it's only a 1.4nm (15 minute) longer route to Leverick via the already well marked, deep water Colqohoun passage, albeit a bit more windward work.

If the gov't actually had funds available, there are several buoyage projects they could undertake that would have a meaningful impact to boater safety (even though these hazards are well described in cruising guides that often go unread by charterers). SeaTow and Moorings would be a good source for a top 10 list.

1) Better mark the passage between Long Bay, Tortola and Little Camanoe. Although it's on most charter company 'off limits' area, I regularly see charter boats passing through here and I know of several boats that have ripped off their keel on the submerged rock midways in the channel.

2) Mark the semi-submerged rock that is ~300 yards east of Marina Cay. At least 2 boats have struck this in the past few years, and from the photo it looks like the power cat that went on the rocks last week also hit this one.

3) Improve the buoyage into the entrances to White Bay, JVD. Place a few yellow cans to mark the outer edge of the reef, similar to Johnson Reef, to help avoid charterers surfing their boat over the reef.

4) Place a buoy to seaward of Sandy Spit reef. A couple boats grounded on this reef in the past few years and were totaled.

5) Re-mark Saildoggie Rock off Sandy Cay with a more robust buoy, chain, and bottom screw.

6) Place a buoy or two to mark the shallow reef just west of the Government Pier at Setting Point, Anegada. Lots of boats have been pulled off this one.

7) Mark the Two Brothers reef on the approach to Anegada. Several boats have hit this by taking the direct route to/from Setting Point and North Sound. ///////

Two brothers or twin sisters?

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 01/30/2019 11:27 AM.
Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: GeorgeC1] #182452
01/30/2019 02:27 PM
01/30/2019 02:27 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 394
BaardJ Offline
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BaardJ  Offline
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You're right George - Twin Sisters. I'll also mention nearby Prawny Shoal which I think has snagged more boats.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182454
01/30/2019 03:24 PM
01/30/2019 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,519
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Online content
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JasonHelmbrecht  Online Content
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
8) replace the Red entrance buoy to CGB.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182469
01/30/2019 06:54 PM
01/30/2019 06:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 883
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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LocalSailor  Offline
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The USCG maintains the buoy system in the USVI - who is the responsible agency in the BVI - just curious.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: LocalSailor] #182539
01/31/2019 03:30 PM
01/31/2019 03:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 629
Minneapolis/Tortola
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rm3 Offline
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Minneapolis/Tortola
Originally Posted by LocalSailor
The USCG maintains the buoy system in the USVI - who is the responsible agency in the BVI - just curious.


I don’t know who has responsibility for the buoys now, but I do know when the buoy system was changed back in 1983 or 1984, the charter companies in the BVI got together and divvied up the responsibilities among themselves to change the system from the original “British” system to the current “American” system. These are currently legally known as Region A and Region B.

I was working for the Moorings and was tasked with taking care of the buoys at the breakwater for the inner harbor in Road Town. On the designated day I got up before dawn, loaded a couple of gallons of paint in a dinghy and headed out to the buoys as it was getting daylight and before the wind started. I slathered green paint on the old red buoys and red paint on the old green buoys. Done, the BVIs were now (mostly) compliant with Region B regulations.

I assume that some BVI Government agency had the authority over aids to navigation, but my faded memory thinks it remembers that the charter companies decided (rightfully) to take things into their own hands to just get things done.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: LocalSailor] #182570
01/31/2019 06:53 PM
01/31/2019 06:53 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 394
BaardJ Offline
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BaardJ  Offline
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Posts: 394
Originally Posted by LocalSailor
The USCG maintains the buoy system in the USVI - who is the responsible agency in the BVI - just curious.


Looks to be BVI Ports Authority
http://bviports.org/reporting-navigational-aids/

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: rm3] #182588
01/31/2019 09:45 PM
01/31/2019 09:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,402
VI,PR,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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sail445  Offline
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VI,PR,NY,AZ
RM3,
I remember also the old system caused a lot of charter boat to go aground due to it being opposite of the US system which most charterers were used to, sort of like keeping Left on the roads compared to Keeping Right
The Red Right Return made more sense.

Re: Why don't they dredge Angilla point? [Re: ggffrr11] #182675
02/01/2019 01:20 PM
02/01/2019 01:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 598
Houston, Texas
louismcc Offline
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louismcc  Offline
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Houston, Texas
I remember when they were making the switch and the paint wasn't sticking very well so it was hard to tell if it was a green buoy painted red or a red one painted green. At one chart briefing we were told to find 2 buoys and go between them.


Louis from Houston

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