Traveltalkonline.com Forums


SXM Cruise Schedule TTOL Sponsors SXM Travel Calendar
Forum Statistics
Forums39
Topics27,780
Posts198,668
Members25,118
Most Online1,403
Dec 25th, 2017
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tammy 85
RonDon 71
Kennys 60
SammyM 37
Member Spotlight
SharonfromSXM
SharonfromSXM
St. Maarten/Long Island
Posts: 1,103
Joined: June 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
columthompson, Illinijs, VLCPO, yellowrose
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (Clod, 1 invisible), 59 guests, and 414 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Re: Club Orient #183879
02/12/2019 01:58 PM
02/12/2019 01:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
H
Hdrdr911 Offline OP
Traveler
Hdrdr911  Offline OP
Traveler
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
There was no photography allowed on the C/O side of the beach and there still isnt. It was never illegal to have a camera on the beach,you just couldn't use it. Who knows what you are actually photographing. Only you. Hence the prohibition. Heard the senic shot argument used lots to no avail . No Mrs Hill I am not incorrect as I never quoted French law. As Steve at Club O explained to me the Club had the right to police the beach and confiscate cameras as well as delete photos. There is currently signage to this effect on the beach right now and Cedrick and company reportedly are enforcing it.

Last edited by Hdrdr911; 02/12/2019 02:05 PM.

If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me
SXM Sponsors
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183881
02/12/2019 02:26 PM
02/12/2019 02:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
Traveler
SXMScubaman  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
But by whose authority can it be enforced? Beach is public to high water mark.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183883
02/12/2019 02:39 PM
02/12/2019 02:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
You know I wish I knew what your name was, as I feel silly addressing a post to Hdrdr. But there unfortunately IS no Club O at the moment, only the Perch Lite. And, as far as I know, no security at this point. And again, I will state that French law says that no one can take your picture without your consent. No one will confiscate any camera or delete photos unless the person is taking pictures of people that don't wish their pictures taken. I frankly don't know what authority they ever had to confiscate cameras, probably only that the gendarmes said they wouldn't do anything about it if they did. But regardless, it's a moot point UNLESS someone is taking pictures of people who don't want their picture taken.

We've been going to Club O beach since 1989. I'm sure that someone who didn't have anything better to do has taken my picture on many occasions and I really couldn't care less. But more importantly, I don't GET this 'me versus them' mentality that some folks--not necessarily you--have about the Club Orient beach. The beach and Club O were always clothing optional. Which means that anyone can walk there on the beach or sit down on the sand or rent a chair or bring their own chair. And that's fine with me. It's a beach, a beautiful beach, where people should relax. If going to that beach or talking about it makes someone so uptight, they aren't getting what the place is supposed to be.


Carol Hill
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183886
02/12/2019 02:51 PM
02/12/2019 02:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,317
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
Traveler
pat  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,317
Brookfield, CT.
There are still many here who remember this beach from ‘back in the day’ before there were any laws or rules or preconceived ideas of what was and wasn’t acceptable. I have this very sincere fear that if people keep pushing their own’ particular agendas, one of these days the French powers that be will ban ALL nudity and just be done with what used to be acceptable. Remember people, it was a deserted beach of particular beauty and remote enough that people didn’t care what the odd and occasional visitor did there. That certainly isn’t the case anymore.......


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: Club Orient [Re: pat] #183888
02/12/2019 03:26 PM
02/12/2019 03:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Allison731 Offline
Traveler
Allison731  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Originally Posted by pat
. Allison,

If I was you, it’s not my shoulders I’d be most worried about! The twin peaks can and will burn badly and while not from personal experience, I have it on good authority, this can be extremely painful.

If you do happen to end up with a bad sunburn anywhere, Biofine (perhaps Biofine?) can be purchased otc at Maho Pharmacy and probably at most others, too, and it works wonders in relieving the pain from a severe sunburn.

Good luck and enjoy your trip.


I figured my girls would also get roasted. It’s just the way I’m built. Strangely, my mid-section and legs barely notice the sun at all.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183889
02/12/2019 03:43 PM
02/12/2019 03:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 31
McLean, VA, USA
decaym Offline
Traveler
decaym  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 31
McLean, VA, USA
Speaking of signs, was there ever any plan to replace the big Club O sign? I believe it disappeared during the hurricane before Irma. It was pretty explicit regarding photography on that end of the beach.

Attached Files Club O Sign.JPG
Re: Club Orient [Re: Carol_Hill] #183895
02/12/2019 04:50 PM
02/12/2019 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
H
Hdrdr911 Offline OP
Traveler
Hdrdr911  Offline OP
Traveler
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
Originally Posted by Carol_Hill
You know I wish I knew what your name was, as I feel silly addressing a post to Hdrdr. But there unfortunately IS no Club O at the moment, only the Perch Lite. And, as far as I know, no security at this point. And again, I will state that French law says that no one can take your picture without your consent. No one will confiscate any camera or delete photos unless the person is taking pictures of people that don't wish their pictures taken. I frankly don't know what authority they ever had to confiscate cameras, probably only that the gendarmes said they wouldn't do anything about it if they did. But regardless, it's a moot point UNLESS someone is taking pictures of people who don't want their picture taken.

We've been going to Club O beach since 1989. I'm sure that someone who didn't have anything better to do has taken my picture on many occasions and I really couldn't care less. But more importantly, I don't GET this 'me versus them' mentality that some folks--not necessarily you--have about the Club Orient beach. The beach and Club O were always clothing optional. Which means that anyone can walk there on the beach or sit down on the sand or rent a chair or bring their own chair. And that's fine with me. It's a beach, a beautiful beach, where people should relax. If going to that beach or talking abo
ut it makes someone so uptight, they aren't getting what the place is supposed to be.

Well all I can say to that is if you spent that much time there then you know what I have said is the absolute truth. On our first visit to Club O we were given a tour and an orientation of sorts. The overiding theme was the Clubs comittment to the protection of your privacy. The Clubs security did, on many occasions sieze cameras and delete photos. Yes it was mostly cruisers . On a personal level I could care less but Im not dependant on that kind of privacy back in the world. Many people are. My wife is a whole different story. Ill know firsthand what the deal is very shortly.
It is a beautiful beach and I hardly spend any time on this nonsense when Im there, however there have been times when I needed to step between a jerk and my wife.Not that it should matter but she is an extremely attractive lady and I am , as I should be, very protective of her. We have the right to be left alone and not harrassed by these idiots who think we are there for thier amusement. That section of the beach was established for just that reason and the photography prohibition is there for that reason as well. Disagree all you want. Thats my take on it.

Last edited by Hdrdr911; 02/12/2019 04:56 PM.

If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183897
02/12/2019 05:42 PM
02/12/2019 05:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 14,074
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
Traveler
ruralcarrier  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 14,074
Ohio
Quote
The overiding theme was the Clubs comittment to the protection of your privacy.


Privacy on a public beach? How can the "Club" override French law?


J.D.
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183899
02/12/2019 05:57 PM
02/12/2019 05:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
hdrdr--Again, you're not getting my point. I know that they regularly seized cameras, and/or deleted pictures, but it was only when someone had their picture taken without their permission, as for example, someone just walking down the beach snapping shots. And I still not am certain they could do it LEGALLY, but they did it. Again, it is not allowed under French law to take someone's picture without their permission. What is the remedy under French law if they do? I THINK the answer is some type of a lawsuit, and not self help like that. And I also wouldn't be surprised if the gendarmes told Stephen they wouldn't do anything if someone complained that their camera was taken or destroyed... ...which is not the same as saying it was legal.


Carol Hill
Re: Club Orient [Re: Carol_Hill] #183906
02/12/2019 06:27 PM
02/12/2019 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
H
Hdrdr911 Offline OP
Traveler
Hdrdr911  Offline OP
Traveler
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
I get your point I just dont agree with it. Ive only stated things I have personally witnessed and experianced. I dont suppose anything that may or may nor have been said to Steve. I do know what he said to me. Ive no reason to doubt him. It was never any different in my ten years as a Club O patron. Security had the authority and used it to protect thier guests. I will suppose this, that in all the years Club O patrolled the beach and detained people and searched photographic equipment, deleting material found to be in violation of policy. Im quite sure if they were operating outside of thier authority the Collective would have stopped it. Word on the other SXM sites is that Cedrick has assumed that responsibility. Self help is not always inappropriate but Im not as well versed in French Law as in the statutes here, however I wont hesitate to protect my wife or anyone else I care about.

Last edited by Hdrdr911; 02/12/2019 06:34 PM.

If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me
Re: Club Orient [Re: decaym] #183913
02/12/2019 06:51 PM
02/12/2019 06:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
Traveler
SXMScubaman  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
Originally Posted by decaym
Speaking of signs, was there ever any plan to replace the big Club O sign? I believe it disappeared during the hurricane before Irma. It was pretty explicit regarding photography on that end of the beach.


The side was a Club O sign and pertains to that property, not the public beach.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183917
02/12/2019 07:21 PM
02/12/2019 07:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 587
jenniboston Offline
Traveler
jenniboston  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 587
This is really a silly argument.

The facts:

In France it is not legal to take a picture of an unwilling subject, regardless of where they are. Period.

How this effects the beach in front of the Club O property:

The management had signs up declaring the property to be a camera-free zone. The implication was that this covered
the beach too, but of course that would probably have not been enforceable had it ever been brought to the authorities or
Court's attention. To the best of my knowledge neither ever occurred over a dispute over a camera. (Remember,
no one can hold a candle to the US when it comes to rampant litigiousness...)

It was in the Club's self interest to make patrons and visitors comfortable, and this occasionally included shielding them from
jerks with cameras. Security would take cameras and/or film away if they witnessed blatant use or got a complaint. Yes, they'd
do this on the beach too. Again, see the caveat on my last point. AT THE SAME TIME, if a regular patron or visitor known to
Security took a quick picture of themselves and/or willing subjects they generally could do so with little issue.

Club O is unfortunately not currently in operation. The beach concession is being run by a former Employee who
probably agrees with the previous management's feelings in regards to making patrons feel comfortable. There is
no current security however, so the previously mentioned jerks may have better luck taking pictures than
they previously did. Again, still illegal. If a fellow patron decides to toss a camera in the sea that is also probably
illegal, but it's unlikely to be frowned upon by anyone on that section of the beach.

Re: Club Orient [Re: jenniboston] #183920
02/12/2019 07:48 PM
02/12/2019 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
H
Hdrdr911 Offline OP
Traveler
Hdrdr911  Offline OP
Traveler
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
That pretty much sums it up. I do know that the gendarmes got involved once that I witnessed. They backed Club O.
Done with this, I wouldnt really call it an argument, just opposing viewpoints.


If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me
Re: Club Orient [Re: decaym] #183921
02/12/2019 07:49 PM
02/12/2019 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 166
U
Uksimonusa Offline
Traveler
Uksimonusa  Offline
Traveler
U
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 166

Originally Posted by decaym
Speaking of signs, was there ever any plan to replace the big Club O sign? I believe it disappeared during the hurricane before Irma. It was pretty explicit regarding photography on that end of the beach.



They do have two similar signs now on the actual Perch Lite and Cedrick told me last week, there is a big sign on order to replace the one you are talking about.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Uksimonusa] #183925
02/12/2019 08:02 PM
02/12/2019 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
Traveler
SXMScubaman  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
But there is no Club O so that side will be different and non enforceable.

Re: Club Orient [Re: jenniboston] #183930
02/12/2019 09:02 PM
02/12/2019 09:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Jenni--Exactly! You are correct. And it is totally opposite of Hdrdr's position, even though he claims he agrees with you.


Carol Hill
Re: Club Orient [Re: jenniboston] #183941
02/12/2019 10:42 PM
02/12/2019 10:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,410
P
PelicanPirate Offline
Traveler
PelicanPirate  Offline
Traveler
P
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,410
There were many visable camera “stoppages” during our recent two weeks. More than before the storm.

I attribute this to many of those occuring with folks that arrived on welcomed ATV tours. There is a open space between two large swaths of chairs. Folks would get off ATV, hear some info on the place, get a beer or drink at perch and take a quick stroll to that open space to see some water. All were easy “please no photos” stoppages.

Evidently, there was a pretty good confrontation just before our arrival when a visitor took some pics of a family with children. That guy’s camera is now a miniature reef.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Carol_Hill] #183954
02/13/2019 07:34 AM
02/13/2019 07:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
H
Hdrdr911 Offline OP
Traveler
Hdrdr911  Offline OP
Traveler
H
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 137
New Hampshire
Originally Posted by Carol_Hill
Jenni--Exactly! You are correct. And it is totally opposite of Hdrdr's position, even though he claims he agrees with you.

Seriously Carol ?? Wow !


If the phone doesn't ring .... it's me
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183969
02/13/2019 10:14 AM
02/13/2019 10:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
She said basically what I said, which is that they didn't have legal authority to do what they did, but they did it anyway AND that the only people who are in trouble with taking pictures are those who take pictures of others without their permission. Your position, I think, is that they had legal authority to seize cameras and throw them in the sea AND that no one is allowed to take pictures, regardless of whether the subject consents or not.


Carol Hill
Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183974
02/13/2019 10:52 AM
02/13/2019 10:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
S
stangied Offline
Traveler
stangied  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
hdrdr you will win this battle even though you stated what Club O management told you when
Club O was still open. They are a few on here that are Judge and jury and what they say is
gospel in there little world. Look at how many times they post. 13000 +, 67000+, and about
9000 so it looks like all they have to do is just sit around and post their opinions. And others
like us that like to get on here to try to get some updates on what is going in St Martin will
not be tolerated. They will just close the post.
I have been staying at Club O for many years and what you say Steven said is what I have
always seen. Legal or not

Re: Club Orient [Re: stangied] #183975
02/13/2019 10:58 AM
02/13/2019 10:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
S
stangied Offline
Traveler
stangied  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
Hdrdr try SXM Naturism and SIMLPLY SXM on Facebook and you can get a lot of good info rmwuth out all the hassle

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #183995
02/13/2019 02:20 PM
02/13/2019 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Allison731 Offline
Traveler
Allison731  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Legal or not, enforced or not, debatable or not, there’s still such a thing as courtesy. Would you feel comfortable if someone was making use of a camera on the nude beach you happened to be occupying? I certainly would not. I would not bring a camera simply out of respect for other beach goers. If my bare butt winds up online, I will be beyond upset. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t think of any reason to take pictures there, other than lustful reasons. I would forget what is legal and what can be enforced, and instead consider basic courtesy.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Allison731] #184000
02/13/2019 02:36 PM
02/13/2019 02:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
Traveler
SXMScubaman  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
" but I can’t think of any reason to take pictures there, other than lustful reasons."
I would not have a problem if someone was walking the beach and took a selfie with the ocean, boat or landscape as a backdrop. Heck I might just do it myself and God help the person that would try to stop me.

Re: Club Orient [Re: SXMScubaman] #184013
02/13/2019 03:43 PM
02/13/2019 03:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
S
stangied Offline
Traveler
stangied  Offline
Traveler
S
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 98
Well they would have stopped you when Club O was open😎

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #184015
02/13/2019 03:54 PM
02/13/2019 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 19
X
xraylady Offline
Traveler
xraylady  Offline
Traveler
X
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 19
While Jenniboston is correct that there is currently no Club O security, the no picture taking policy is being activity implemented by both Cedrick and the employees at Perch Lite. I watched with some amusement, on our most recent visit, when one of the young ladies at Perch Lite asked a tourist what part of no picture taking didn't he understand as he prepared to take a picture out towards the water. There is a sign in the sand as you walk towards the water from the current parking lot which states picture taking is not allowed. Whether this restriction is legal or not is another issue but it has been strictly enforced since my wife and I have been going to the beach in front of Club O. What I have always wondered about is how Club O has been able to prevent the beach vendors from plying their trade on the Club O beach? Is that portion of the beach really public or does Club O have an understanding with the French side authorities to limit beach access?

Re: Club Orient [Re: stangied] #184020
02/13/2019 04:32 PM
02/13/2019 04:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
Traveler
SXMScubaman  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,281
Auburn, WA
Originally Posted by stangied
Well they would have stopped you when Club O was open😎

Wasn't inplying before Irma but now it isn't Club O anymore.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Hdrdr911] #184031
02/13/2019 05:41 PM
02/13/2019 05:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,248
Hershey, Pennsylvania
Tom Offline
Traveler
Tom  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,248
Hershey, Pennsylvania
As fairly suggested to me and others in the past, there are topics that we need to agree to disagree on. No harm done. Let's just move on.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Tom] #184062
02/13/2019 08:20 PM
02/13/2019 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Allison731 Offline
Traveler
Allison731  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 104
Edison, NJ
Originally Posted by Tom
As fairly suggested to me and others in the past, there are topics that we need to agree to disagree on. No harm done. Let's just move on.


Considering that I’m getting multiple suggestions on what to do with my situation, I’d suggest we’re just naturally debatey creatures.

Re: Club Orient [Re: Tom] #184068
02/13/2019 09:06 PM
02/13/2019 09:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 69,125
Central Florida!
Tom--Agreed.


Carol Hill

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1