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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198903
06/30/2019 04:49 PM
06/30/2019 04:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,054 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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First reports are it was a collision with a Voyage Cat. If true looks like the Voyage cat won!
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 06/30/2019 04:49 PM.
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198905
06/30/2019 06:32 PM
06/30/2019 06:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,054 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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I am not sure they are stronger, they are certainly not heavier. Usually the boat that is doing the hitting bow first comes out just fine. I saw the results of a Cat collision years ago and the boat that was hit turtled with the hull flooded and the boat that hit them bow first suffered almost no damage. Being the boat hitting bow first does not however mean you are at fault depending on the circumstances. This will be a insurance mess I suspect. G
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 06/30/2019 06:34 PM.
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198912
06/30/2019 09:17 PM
06/30/2019 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
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Beer and rum, lots of beer and rum! Beer and Rum is what’s used when the prosecutor and the judge sit down to determine who the guilty party is. It’s a tradition.
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198919
06/30/2019 11:29 PM
06/30/2019 11:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,228 Somewhere out there
kneafseym
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Running charters for 20+ years I was in potential collision situations more than I care to admit. Fortunately only once would have been my fault, but very scary, a dive boat in open water 10 miles offshore anchored in my blind spot where I would never have guessed a boat to be. I would always tell the guests during my briefing, even though I am the Capt I am not infallible and if you see something like another boat approaching too close, I have no issues with you mentioning it and I would prefer you would. I would say of my near collisions, about 40% were a result of no one at the helm (not just bareboat, but professional crewed boats), I would make sure I scared the crap out them them by passing close astern and doubted they made that mistake again.
Mike
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: BaardJ]
#198922
07/01/2019 08:05 AM
07/01/2019 08:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,054 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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How can two 50 footers collide in broad daylight, sunny conditions, 14 kts wind, relatively flat seas, and apparantly just a few hundred yards from the Moorings base? There're no FCFS mooring balls to be racing to!
3rd photo shows a Voyage cat nearby with its mainsail partially lowered.
Not to speculate, but I can picture the Moorings cat just departing the base midday as it starts a weeklong charter, while the Voyage cat is tacking up the SFD and comes into Baughers Bay on starboard tack with visibility partially obscured by the genoa. The Moorings boat is idling forward as it starts to raise its mainsail - the crew is all looking up at the lazy jacks and battens and no is scanning for boats as it gets into the Voyage cat skipper's blind zone (and who has no one posted on his portside as lookout). Boom!
Hope the lessons-learned from the accident report get shared.
I feel very bad for the owners (if they were not onboard) as they will be stuck with a lot of the costs. Since the boat was a Moorings boat the owners should be fine. They will receive 100% of the value of the purchase price since the boat is under 1 year old. If repairable they will be fully paid every month during repairs. I suspect the boat will be repaired because they practically have a Leapard factory set up next to the Moorings still fixing IRMA boats.
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 07/01/2019 08:06 AM.
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: Orange_Burst]
#198927
07/01/2019 09:45 AM
07/01/2019 09:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,392 Maryland
Kirk
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It looks like BVI News took the article down. Says it is no longer available. It was interesting how the headline said it was now a confirmed collision and the link went dead.
Kirk in Maryland
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198941
07/01/2019 12:57 PM
07/01/2019 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 967 Middleburg, VA
cwoody
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Boating Rule number 1 is to always avoid a collision. If a collision occurs the Nav. Rules were not observed. The Coast Guard and Admiralty Court take the position that there are no accidents. A watch (lookout) is required anytime that a vessel is under way.
Opposite of NO FAULT... Both Captains at fault!
Chuck W.
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#198993
07/01/2019 11:18 PM
07/01/2019 11:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,228 Somewhere out there
kneafseym
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Posts: 3,228
Somewhere out there
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George you are correct in the Regs it says something like, make an obvious course change to show your intentions.
Mike
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: Christo]
#199028
07/02/2019 10:43 AM
07/02/2019 10:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,054 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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Scary just how poor the construction is. But then...if they were built properly they'd cost too much to charter out at the low prices we all enjoy...and to muppet who don't know what they're doing. And of course it would have taken many years to replace the fleets after Irma/Maria.
Swings and roundabouts... The Leopards are built like tanks relative to many cats. That is why structurally they hold up well in charter but are not that fast. Basically that boat got hit by 28,000 lbs doing probably 7 knots with all the force concentrated into about a 1 to 2 square foot cleaver. I am not sure even ¼ steel plate would have held up. Take a look some time at the pics of the Andrea Dora collision. Same principle. G
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199029
07/02/2019 10:46 AM
07/02/2019 10:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,529 Grenada
Zanshin
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Grenada
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The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs) are quite clear: Rule 8 (Action to avoid a collision) (a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.
(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.
(text in Bold highlighted by me) a 10 degree change when approaching head on is easier to see than a 20 degree course change when approaching at an oblique angle. Since neither vessel was constrained by draft (chuckle - they are catamarans...) then ultimately both captains are at fault, although one boat will be most likely be significantly more responsible than the other, which didn't apply Rule 8 in a timely manner.
Last edited by Zanshin; 07/02/2019 10:47 AM. Reason: changed "skipper" to "captain"
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199048
07/02/2019 01:15 PM
07/02/2019 01:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Massachusetts
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That might make them less at fault, but even when raising the main they should be aware of what is around them and coming towards them. And I've never raised the main with the engine off so maneuvering out of the way should be possible and be able to be done quickly.
Matt
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199049
07/02/2019 01:34 PM
07/02/2019 01:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 833 Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin
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Redmond, WA
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I think in these situations we are interested in the details not out of idle curiosity, but we're looking for reasons why this couldn't/wouldn't happen to us, or at least learn from what went wrong.
One possible takeaway is to forego demonstrating one's dedication to being a super avid sailor by raising or dousing sails near a congested area such as the Road Town Harbor entrance. Still just speculation of course.
M4000 "Lio Kai"
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199081
07/02/2019 08:07 PM
07/02/2019 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 559 Apex, NC
agrimsrud
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Apex, NC
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Lots of people with poor understanding of the rules of the road plus poor judgement. Last week we were sailing on a starboard track out in the channel and had a Saba 50 nearly run us down on an intersect on a port track. I was keeping a close eye on him and certainly would have yielded if necessary. The Saba eventually yielded. The captain was very angry with us and screamed we needed to learn the rules of the road.
Life's short - sail more!
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199094
07/02/2019 10:33 PM
07/02/2019 10:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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Macon, Georgia
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Not a question of which boat was stronger. It was a T-bone collision and the T-bonor usually comes out far better than the T-bonee
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: Be Careful Out There!
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#199237
07/04/2019 03:25 PM
07/04/2019 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
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I couldn't count the amount of times in the BVI that we have had to alter course because another boat clearly had no F###### idea about col-regs!
...given that our professional racing days are behind us, we of course...just give way to the muppets and carry on with our day.
It's great that idiots, morons and fools get to experience the beauty of the islands on ikea-boats these days...and great for the coffers of KKR, but of course the occasional sinking...or maybe drowning is the cost of it.
Last edited by Christo; 07/04/2019 03:29 PM.
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