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Philpsburg Struggling #210966
12/11/2019 02:19 PM
12/11/2019 02:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,938
Maryland/DC Metro
BeachKitten Offline OP
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The cruise ship pier and catering to cruisers was never the answer. They don't spend the money that land visitors do.

https://stmaartennews.com/economy/businesses-philipsburg-struggle-survive/


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
SXM Sponsors
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210968
12/11/2019 02:41 PM
12/11/2019 02:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,643
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
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I think the attraction of Philipsburg might improve if they got rid of the aggressive hawkers that make going there a pain. Word gets out.....yes, they need jobs but not at the expense of business that are there

Last edited by boucharda; 12/11/2019 02:42 PM.
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210971
12/11/2019 03:11 PM
12/11/2019 03:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 71,916
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Leona--Honestly, in the old days, when we first started coming to SXM, Front Street was a BIG deal with cruisers. The first cruise we came to SXM, we spent the WHOLE day on Front Street, spending a whole bunch of money. Now, the dynamic of cruisers is a lot different, since the actual cabins are so CHEAP, compared to what they were. I remember our first cruise, circa 1986 or so, we paid $1200 a person for a 7 day cruise in an outside cabin on the then brand new NCL Seaward. Back then, Eric often took TWO tuxes onboard. These days, $1200 a person, depending on season, can get you some pretty nice digs in the Caribbean. Things are different these days, with these mega ships holding 6,000 passengers, most of which paid $600 a person for their cabin and who have never worn a tux in their lives, except POSSIBLY at someone's wedding.


Carol Hill
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210972
12/11/2019 03:36 PM
12/11/2019 03:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 45
Wichita, KS
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I agree that since the cruise ship traffic has increased I tend to avoid Phillipsburg if possible. The article talked about 50 restaurants located in P-burg. I certainly don't go there at night time anymore to dine. One reason is the safety and the other is there are too many other good competing restaurants located around the island.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: Carol_Hill] #210974
12/11/2019 04:06 PM
12/11/2019 04:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,938
Maryland/DC Metro
BeachKitten Offline OP
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But when your drinks, food, entertainment are all on board the ship...people aren't eating in town. There are shops at the cruise village, shops on the boat.


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210976
12/11/2019 04:39 PM
12/11/2019 04:39 PM
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Posts: 71,916
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Drinks aren't free on the ship, unless the person paid for a pricy package. As I said, things are much different than when we first started cruising.


Carol Hill
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210977
12/11/2019 04:42 PM
12/11/2019 04:42 PM
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Cruisers were never big spenders. They pay one price for a ticket and not a penny anywhere else. They feel they can eat for "free' on the boat as they have already put up the money. Look at Maho beach when a lot of cruise ships are in. Three quarters of the beach are the cruisers sitting on the ships towels and one quarter will rent loungers. They do nothing for the economy. The only ones making out is the government, the more cruise ships in, the better. Fills their pockets while businesses are hurting.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210978
12/11/2019 04:59 PM
12/11/2019 04:59 PM
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Posts: 55
sxm
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enzosxm Offline
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Modern cruiseships killed St. Maarten. Long gone tha days of boutiques like Gucci, Fendi, La Romana. Jewellery stores like H.Stern, Colombian Emeralds, the real Little Switzerland. Restaurants like Da Livio, Il Pescatore, La Rosa, Antoine, Le Bec Fin, Callaloo, Seafood Galley etc. Etc.

Last edited by enzosxm; 12/11/2019 04:59 PM.
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: enzosxm] #210980
12/11/2019 05:25 PM
12/11/2019 05:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,938
Maryland/DC Metro
BeachKitten Offline OP
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Originally Posted by enzosxm
Modern cruiseships killed St. Maarten. Long gone tha days of boutiques like Gucci, Fendi, La Romana. Jewellery stores like H.Stern, Colombian Emeralds, the real Little Switzerland. Restaurants like Da Livio, Il Pescatore, La Rosa, Antoine, Le Bec Fin, Callaloo, Seafood Galley etc. Etc.


Oh wow...so correct. You just reminded me of all the places that I miss, and that I used to shop in P-burg.

And in Marigot, I bought Dior purses for much less than NYC. <sigh>

Completed my Waterford crystal place setting at Little Switzerland. Mont Blanc for work....

Now, the jewelry stores barely beckon to me. Barely....lol


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210984
12/11/2019 07:02 PM
12/11/2019 07:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,261
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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I would think available beach parking would bring non cruisers to Great Bay Beach and spend money at some of the Boardwalk establishments.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210986
12/11/2019 08:07 PM
12/11/2019 08:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 17,578
St Maarten
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With the traffic situation, you can't even get there! For several years we would watch the cruisers headed back to the ship and they had no shopping bags. Our friend who owns a jewelry store on front street always said they don't make their $ from cruisers, but from the repeat business from stay over guests.


Elaine
*********************************
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Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BillandElaine] #210988
12/11/2019 08:44 PM
12/11/2019 08:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,261
Auburn, WA
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I'm sure your jewelry friend knows but all 6 cruises we've been on we always made purchases while in port. Some large ones too.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BillandElaine] #210994
12/11/2019 10:50 PM
12/11/2019 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BillandElaine
With the traffic situation, you can't even get there! For several years we would watch the cruisers headed back to the ship and they had no shopping bags. Our friend who owns a jewelry store on front street always said they don't make their $ from cruisers, but from the repeat business from stay over guests.


How right you are Elaine.

Scubaman, I believe you but you are way in the minority.

SXM economy will never grow if they depend on the cruisers.

We who visit our beloved island are the ones that keep the economy on SXM growing.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: LBI2SXM] #210996
12/11/2019 11:23 PM
12/11/2019 11:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,261
Auburn, WA
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I feel the cruisers were responsible for the beginning of the island economy kick off long ago. Most discovered the island from cruises and continue to come back either from cruises or extended stays.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BillandElaine] #210997
12/12/2019 12:25 AM
12/12/2019 12:25 AM
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Posts: 760
Harriston
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We always try to get to Phillipsburg at least once, and make a purchase....lol my husband cringes...:) But,,we used to be able to grab a parking spot beside Great Bay resort,,pre Irma, right on the beach then walk downtown. However, that is all blocked off as we found out, so had to try to find the town parking lot, which was full. It was a very real problem to find a spot to park. That is the downside for us.
We have often thought of going to dinner at Chesterfields,,,but I really do not like the vibe in Phillipsburg at night time, so have yet to eat there. Maybe lunch one day this time.
I hope something changes or they can at least make another parking lot. I try to avoid days when there are several cruise shiips in...will see what it is like in Feb when we go.


Randy and Meg Young
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #210998
12/12/2019 12:31 AM
12/12/2019 12:31 AM
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The Minister who had the bollards removed, which then led to/encouraged parking on the sidewalks, didn't help matters.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211002
12/12/2019 08:48 AM
12/12/2019 08:48 AM
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Posts: 3,527
Rhode Island
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I wonder if other cruise stops are experiencing the same thing? And does it depend on whether SXM is the first or last stop? We have never taken a cruise that stopped in SXM. As I recall where we did stop we spent quite a bit at the first stop then less and less at other stops because we found it all the same.

Enzo is correct that the prime stores have gone from SXM. Our first visit to SXM (non-cruise) excited me so when I discovered Phillipsburg. I remember remarking we hadn't seen these stores on our cruise stops. We now are guilty of not visiting Phillipsburg due to parking, hawkers and truthfully not needing as much anymore.

I can remember staying at Great Bay Hotel and taking daily walks into town to shop, sightsee, eat at some of those long-gone fantastic restaurants. Time Shares have added to Phillipsburg's problem. Simpson Bay seems to be the new metropolis. Why fight traffic, fight to park, to go to P'Burg. Marigot used to be a shopping mecca with foreign brands products. That has changed. Marina Royal had delightful boutiques at one time. Bottom line it's not just the cruisers.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211016
12/12/2019 11:17 AM
12/12/2019 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,261
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Many cruises do spend money on island. Just because some jewelery stores are seeing a slowing the spend money on taxis, car rentals, beach loungers, food, duty free puchases, tours, excursions and souvenirs. All contributing to the island economy.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211032
12/12/2019 01:49 PM
12/12/2019 01:49 PM
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Cobourg Ontario Canada
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I agree.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: jeepers] #211036
12/12/2019 02:49 PM
12/12/2019 02:49 PM
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Take a look at Sunset web cam and tell me who is spending money. Surely not the ones who are standing rather than rent a lounge chair. I know of a gal whose friend used to work there and she stated that they may buy a drink but it's not a great income day. She said it too crowded that's about it.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211040
12/12/2019 03:15 PM
12/12/2019 03:15 PM
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enzosxm Offline
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I do not agree with Scuba

Last edited by enzosxm; 12/12/2019 03:15 PM.
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: enzosxm] #211042
12/12/2019 03:35 PM
12/12/2019 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
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Carol_Hill Offline
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Enzo--I have said that many times myself!!! rofl Sorry, couldn't resist!! toast


Carol Hill
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: LBI2SXM] #211063
12/12/2019 07:33 PM
12/12/2019 07:33 PM
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Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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They had to spend money to get there via taxi or tour.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211064
12/12/2019 08:09 PM
12/12/2019 08:09 PM
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BeachKitten Offline OP
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$191.50 or whatever per person is nothing compared to what land stays spend.

Rental car, chairs & umbrella at beach, lodging, meals out, grocery shopping, boat trips, ferry’s, dive trips, on and on and on....


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211066
12/12/2019 08:39 PM
12/12/2019 08:39 PM
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enzosxm Offline
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Plus you have to put on the scale the pollution they cause,
The extra garbage that they download here, infact believe or not they do confer garbagr from the ships to the landfii.
The extra traffic they create.
Just to mention a few of the downside of the cruiseships

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211072
12/12/2019 09:04 PM
12/12/2019 09:04 PM
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Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Originally Posted by BeachKitten
$191.50 or whatever per person is nothing compared to what land stays spend.

Rental car, chairs & umbrella at beach, lodging, meals out, grocery shopping, boat trips, ferry’s, dive trips, on and on and on....


Every thing you listed for land stays are also cruise expedtures except for lodging. And the daily count of cruise visitors far surpasses the land stay people over a years period. I think it probably balances out for expenditure.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: LBI2SXM] #211079
12/12/2019 11:46 PM
12/12/2019 11:46 PM
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Many things have changed over the years:

1) more people are cruising and are repeat visitors to each port
2) the stores and duty free deals are no longer what they were in St Thomas and St Maarten in the 70s
3) you have the internet to get the best deals and selection from someone that takes returns
4) while we know there are good jewelry shops the popin cruiser doesnt know that but they still spend
5)most families dont want all the junk tshirts and trinkets mass produced somewhere else anymore
6)we always eat and drink ashore and drinking is way cheaper ashore. Wed eat dinner to but the boat sails.nQqq
7) there are beaucoup bucks being made on excursions
8) i think cruisers drop alot of money on the island but it just stops at dinner time
9) st maarten is still an interesting port in our book. Better than almost all others

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211082
12/13/2019 12:25 AM
12/13/2019 12:25 AM
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BeachKitten Offline OP
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Then why is the economy contracting?


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211087
12/13/2019 01:29 AM
12/13/2019 01:29 AM
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Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Originally Posted by BeachKitten
Then why is the economy contracting?

For some of the reasons listed above by Pelican.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211136
12/13/2019 11:56 AM
12/13/2019 11:56 AM
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NYCGAL Offline
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I could not agree more....once the Island chose to cater to Cruise ships the entire dynamic shifted

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: NYCGAL] #211140
12/13/2019 12:24 PM
12/13/2019 12:24 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Island makes a lot on money on port fees.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211142
12/13/2019 12:25 PM
12/13/2019 12:25 PM
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BeachKitten Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SXMScubaman
Island makes a lot on money on port fees.


"someone" makes money on those port fees. It does not seem to get back into the economy or help the residents or infrastructure.


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211144
12/13/2019 12:30 PM
12/13/2019 12:30 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Originally Posted by BeachKitten
Originally Posted by SXMScubaman
Island makes a lot on money on port fees.


"someone" makes money on those port fees. It does not seem to get back into the economy or help the residents or infrastructure.

I find that hard to believe.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211165
12/13/2019 03:40 PM
12/13/2019 03:40 PM
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Rhode Island
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The first time we saw a decline in Marigot was after the Euro. Shoppers told us even the French islanders were shopping on the Dutch side to get more for their money.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211178
12/13/2019 04:56 PM
12/13/2019 04:56 PM
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Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
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I think the port fees thing does not really directly help the shops who are looking for business. They help the coffers of those collecting them but the issue is where does the money go? Do the shops get a share?

Last edited by boucharda; 12/13/2019 04:57 PM.
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211203
12/13/2019 07:07 PM
12/13/2019 07:07 PM
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Posts: 17,578
St Maarten
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10% Theo


Elaine
*********************************
God Bless the broken road....
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: SXMScubaman] #211207
12/13/2019 08:00 PM
12/13/2019 08:00 PM
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Last edited by enzosxm; 12/13/2019 08:01 PM.
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: enzosxm] #211210
12/13/2019 08:14 PM
12/13/2019 08:14 PM
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BeachKitten Offline OP
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Great article...thanks.

"Stay-over travelers, whether intra-regional or from outside the Caribbean, spend very much more than cruise ship passengers and generate considerably more local employment than today’s cruise ship business model, which is now highly exploitive of Caribbean countries"

Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner.


"It is good to do nothing all day, and then to rest" wink
Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211213
12/13/2019 08:44 PM
12/13/2019 08:44 PM
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sxm
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enzosxm Offline
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Well I have been living in sxm for 36years, I might have a small insight.

Re: Philpsburg Struggling [Re: BeachKitten] #211216
12/13/2019 09:15 PM
12/13/2019 09:15 PM
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I don't live on SXM but I have spent 37 years/ 60 days per year on SXM. IMO whether you are a stay-over or a cruise day-tripper people in general are spending much less on their vacations. The old timers here have all the jewelry and collectibles they need. I have 12 Llardros from Little Switzerland and more rings than I have fingers. The younger travelers chose adventure over nick-nacks. Maybe the retailer needs to keep up with the needs and wants of the visitor?


Don't Worry Be Happy Not Hangry...
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