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Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226394
05/11/2020 12:28 PM
05/11/2020 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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The charter companies are aligned with the boat owners. In game theory whenever you have 3 players 2 gang up on the 3rd. I found this out growing up as my 2 younger brothers who are bigger than me used to beat me up. As a charterer I don't want to be odd man out if the "shell game" of using charter loaned money to continue to pay the owners runs out and impacts the company solvency. I only have limited time to exercise a CC dispute and saw no downside to doing that and no upside to "loaning unsecured money" so boat owners can get their "guaranteed payments". There is no real certainty when the BVIs will even open and open without requiring either immunity proof or a self quarantine on island.

From my charterer perspective the situation is no different than Irma when full refunds were given because they couldn't fulfill the charter end of the "contract"

The situation is reversed for me with our rental property and I told our "odd man out" guests that if they cant get to it for any reason then they get their money back of which I have 1/2 that was fronted to me.

BVI Sponsors
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: bailau] #226396
05/11/2020 12:54 PM
05/11/2020 12:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Originally Posted by bailau
The charter companies are aligned with the boat owners. In game theory whenever you have 3 players 2 gang up on the 3rd. I found this out growing up as my 2 younger brothers who are bigger than me used to beat me up. As a charterer I don't want to be odd man out if the "shell game" of using charter loaned money to continue to pay the owners runs out and impacts the company solvency. I only have limited time to exercise a CC dispute and saw no downside to doing that and no upside to "loaning unsecured money" so boat owners can get their "guaranteed payments". There is no real certainty when the BVIs will even open and open without requiring either immunity proof or a self quarantine on island.

From my charterer perspective the situation is no different than Irma when full refunds were given because they couldn't fulfill the charter end of the "contract"

The situation is reversed for me with our rental property and I told our "odd man out" guests that if they cant get to it for any reason then they get their money back of which I have 1/2 that was fronted to me.

Hopefully they remember you the next time you try to book.


JasonHelmbrecht
Coconut Breeze Villas
Cane Garden Bay
reservations@coconutbreezevillas.com
www.coconutbreezevillas.com
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226397
05/11/2020 01:13 PM
05/11/2020 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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That will be interesting...I have a had a long and loyal relationship with them especially their Florida center and BVI base camp. Next time they may tell me to pound sand and go elsewhere....

I did send some of the returned money to some of their laid off base camps employees who were finally able to get it today

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226398
05/11/2020 01:13 PM
05/11/2020 01:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,993
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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I have had extensive conversations with owners at two other charter companies. To say they are aligned with the owners might not be quite accurate. One of the companies seems almost hostile in their treatment of the owners. It’s a tough time for everyone. If the world does not open up soon it’s likely that when things start to return to normal travel and vacation costs will soar given the capacity that is going to be lost.
G

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226400
05/11/2020 01:22 PM
05/11/2020 01:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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Interesting George...I wonder if business interruption insurance helped with Irma and the pandemic wasn't covered?

On vacation costs I wonder what this does for the demand side of things?

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: bailau] #226403
05/11/2020 02:32 PM
05/11/2020 02:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Originally Posted by bailau
I wonder if business interruption insurance helped with Irma and the pandemic wasn't covered?

not covered for the pandemic.

Just like breaking your contracts should NOT be reimbursed by a cc company. All that does is increase the cc processing fees to the vendor which ultimately gets passed on the consumer. I hope every customer on this board that pays a higher charter fee next year remembers all the people on this board that used the credit cards companies as a scapegoat because they decided not to honor their contract agreements. Read those contracts next time and don't sign one if you don't agree with it. Save that spot and contract for someone who is honest up front and makes a real commitment.

Someone tries that crap with my reservations will not be welcome back and every other hotel in Cane will know about it.


JasonHelmbrecht
Coconut Breeze Villas
Cane Garden Bay
reservations@coconutbreezevillas.com
www.coconutbreezevillas.com
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226404
05/11/2020 03:08 PM
05/11/2020 03:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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Jason-

I can assure you I have read the contract many times over the years. I understand, appreciate, and respect how you feel. Your comments about "honesty" and "commitment" are off base but again that is certainly your opinion...nothing more and nothing less.

We can agree to disagree.

As I said I am on the other end (your end) of this with my rental property in the US and at the end of the day guests could do a credit card dispute with me as they have done in other homes. I have already told them all at the very beginning if they cant get to my place due to Covid, I am going to refund all monies and not hold them to the technical terms of their contract because IMHO I cant deliver on my end because they signed on to a specific week in their contract with me. If they do a dispute which is certainly within their rights I have no issue with them.

I have taken the credit instead of refund or dispute for other parts of this trip down there...just not here


Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226413
05/11/2020 06:31 PM
05/11/2020 06:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 833
Houston, Texas
louismcc Offline
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I'm probably as big a Moorings fan as anyone but am reaching my limit with them. We have an 07/03 charter scheduled which is obviously not going to happen. I've been avoiding calling them because there are a few weeks to go before the start and I'm sure, as their website says, they are busy dealing with charters that have to be rescheduled.

What ticks me off is they move their "all charters are cancelled" date forward about a week at a time. Perhaps other bases will open sooner but the BVI by all accounts is shut down at least until September. Their current date is now 06/22, so I guess if I wait 2 more Mondays, they'll eventually get around to me.

At this point we fully intend to reschedule, most likely for the same dates in 2021, and not even complain about the fact they'll have use of our money for a full year. I just want to get moving on this because I also need to see what Delta will do with our flights.


Louis from Houston
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226432
05/12/2020 09:30 AM
05/12/2020 09:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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What will be interesting to see down the road is which companies fare better from this. Those that refunded customers (some have right?) but didn't pay owners or those (really just Moorings it seems) that paid owners but didn't refund customers. Seems to me keeping customers happy is more important to both parties to ensure repeat business when things do get going again?


Matt
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226433
05/12/2020 10:00 AM
05/12/2020 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,647
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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What is likely to irritate customers the most is if the companies go belly-up and they lose all their money!

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226435
05/12/2020 10:20 AM
05/12/2020 10:20 AM
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Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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I like Moorings. I really do. My brother in law had a boat in their program for many years selling it just before Irma. I recommend Moorings to everybody

I tried very hard to work with them on this. They were completely non-responsive for emails and calls for a while. When I finally reached Florida I wanted to understand their future and business model given that they were paying out guaranteed cash to owners that hasn't technically been (or will be) earned yet and as most travel companies are thinly capitalized. The nice people in FL were just told to try an retain all bookings and couldn't help further. They wanted to put conditions on my credit in terms of time. I cant just pick up and go to the islands on a moments notice (unfortunately).

I then reached out to my friends in the BVI base. They told me they had been laid off immediately and given a return date that was after this rolling cancel date game that Moorings is playing. The fact that the employees were terminated immediately was the straw that triggered me to pull the plug. So while I left the money on the table for the other local businesses as a credit I really had no desire to do that for KKR especially since they levered up and ultimately killed my favorite store in the whole wide world...ToysR'US. As I mentioned I sent some of that money back to the fired employees so they can buy food.

If it means I am banned from Moorings and apparently Jason's place I can live with that. If they treated their BVI employees better we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: bailau] #226436
05/12/2020 10:33 AM
05/12/2020 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Originally Posted by bailau
If it means I am banned from Moorings and apparently Jason's place I can live with that. If they treated their BVI employees better we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Despite your last disrespectful comment, you're welcome at Coconut Breeze Villas anytime. Thought you agreed to disagree. You didn't do anything to me.

Cheers to better days! I'll be the first to buy you a drink when you return.


JasonHelmbrecht
Coconut Breeze Villas
Cane Garden Bay
reservations@coconutbreezevillas.com
www.coconutbreezevillas.com
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226437
05/12/2020 10:47 AM
05/12/2020 10:47 AM
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Posts: 1,343
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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For clarity my last sentence should have read, "If MOORINGS treated their BVI employees better.....". I meant no disrespect to Jason and certainly apologize for the misunderstanding I created....

As is my custom I will buy anyone here drinks for the kindness, knowledge, and wisdom you have given me

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #226440
05/12/2020 11:21 AM
05/12/2020 11:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,647
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Jason undoubtedly has a better handle on BVI employment practices than I do. My understanding is that, after three months, the lay-offs automatically become terminations, with required severance pay. Especially for businesses with long-term employees, that could mean significant dollars. And heading into slow season, at that.

One way around it might be to recall those laid off in March and lay off other workers until mid-September. I just wonder how many tourism-related busInesses have sufficient cash.

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #227124
05/27/2020 04:12 AM
05/27/2020 04:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
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Kryssa Offline OP
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Kryssa  Offline OP
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Hi All,

Just wanted to close the loop on this topic I started.

Today Moorings agreed to give us a credit for the full price of our August charter good until September 2022 if we paid in full. Otherwise, we would forfeit our deposit. With the offer in writing, we decided to pay off the balance. We will try to book in Croatia for the same week next year if my parents are willing to travel. If not, we will book in BVI for spring 2022 and go with friends if my parents still can't go.

While I wish Moorings would have given us the credit for our deposit, I understand they probably need the cash to float the rest of this season. Yes, there's always a chance they go under and we just flushed more money down the drain, but I think it's unlikely they don't survive in some form.

I wish everyone the best of luck for a happy, healthy rest of 2020. Maybe we'll see you on the water sometime!

Last edited by Kryssa; 05/27/2020 04:13 AM.
Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: Kryssa] #227133
05/27/2020 09:48 AM
05/27/2020 09:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,647
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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If your final payment is due, say, 60 days before the charter begins, and the charter date changes, shouldn't the payment date change?

Corollary question: is there a distinction between the government closes the border but the charter company is still prepared to do the charter and the charter company closes their base? Compare this to a house rental after Irma. It strikes me there is a difference between the house is useable but you don't want to go and the house blew away.

Re: Refunds from Moorings? [Re: RatmansWife] #227142
05/27/2020 05:13 PM
05/27/2020 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
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Kryssa Offline OP
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Kryssa  Offline OP
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I can only speak from our personal experience, but because our charter was so far out (August 29,) Moorings was under no requirement to do anything for us. If we changed our charter date, it would have been a $1000 change fee. And then we would have been locked into summer 2021, which my parents didn't want to do. And if we canceled, they'd keep the $3500 deposit.

You might be able to get a free change if you were in their no-sail window of 6 weeks before the charter, but then they'd already have your full balance paid so the question of moving the date with only the deposit paid becomes moot.

My parents say there is no way they will travel to Europe this year, so if we waited too long, we worried we wouldn't have the flexibility to cancel with a full credit because right now Croatia is starting to let sailing charterers arrive in the country and sail. It's pretty hard to get there though with only maybe a half dozen European cities getting flights from the US.

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