Traveltalkonline.com Forums


BVI Cruise Schedule TTOL Sponsors BVI Travel Calendar
Forum Statistics
Forums39
Topics30,922
Posts234,961
Members25,492
Most Online2,218
Jan 21st, 2020
Top Posters(30 Days)
Fred 85
Zanshin 78
pat 59
Kennys 53
Fran 53
Member Spotlight
Posts: 165
Joined: March 2016
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
kathyf
Who's Online Now
18 registered members (SammyM, HibiscusFan, BaardJ, EdB, Savannahlucy, Sunnykm, GW248, Latadjust, SeeDiver, GeorgeC1, MrEZgoin, xrayman67, SXMScubaman, tomintx, kbd, 3 invisible), 150 guests, and 420 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
BVI Impounding boats #240275
11/19/2020 05:45 PM
11/19/2020 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,214
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline OP
Traveler
CaptainJay  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,214
Saint Thomas, USVI
I just spoke to a contact that I trust in the BVI's. They stopped and impounded two vessels today for entering BVI waters. The boat he knew of personally was a 1/4 mile inside BVI waters. Sailing with no intention of landing onshore. This would normally be considered an innocent passage. He was fined twenty thousand dollars.

If you are chartering or sailing in USVI waters do not cross the border.

BVI Sponsors
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240277
11/19/2020 06:00 PM
11/19/2020 06:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 528
Apex, NC
agrimsrud Offline
Traveler
agrimsrud  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 528
Apex, NC
Jay - private boats or charter boats? If charter, what company?
I've was chased by the BVI patrol boat last summer. I believe I was inside US waters when they came to yell at me. But not necessarily clear on the chart plotter where the border is located. This past charter in November I made the first tack very early to make sure they understood I knew not to cross into BVI waters. When CPB is broke, bored, and paranoid bad things can happen.


Life's short - sail more!
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240278
11/19/2020 06:10 PM
11/19/2020 06:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
All boats have a right of innocent passage and I believe the BVI has signed those accords. This should become a government to government issue.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240279
11/19/2020 06:10 PM
11/19/2020 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,214
Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay Offline OP
Traveler
CaptainJay  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,214
Saint Thomas, USVI
The boat that I could confirm is private.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240281
11/19/2020 06:40 PM
11/19/2020 06:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,095
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
Traveler
LocalSailor  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,095
USVI
Tacking upwind in Drakes Passage - especially around the Narrows -- it is almost impossible not to cross into BVI waters .I did hear of a vessel being fined earlier this week.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240285
11/19/2020 09:01 PM
11/19/2020 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 700
Georgia & South Carolina
D
Deepcut Offline
Traveler
Deepcut  Offline
Traveler
D
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 700
Georgia & South Carolina
WOW, I sailed around St John last month and I am pretty sure I crossed the line. I felt I was "innocent passage".

I would think CBP would recognize a boat with full sails underway is not trying to enter country and spread Covid 19. If sails dropped and idle speed, I could understand CBP taking a closer look.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Deepcut] #240291
11/20/2020 12:05 AM
11/20/2020 12:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,900
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
Traveler
sail445  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,900
VI,GA,AZ
Originally Posted by Deepcut
WOW, I sailed around St John last month and I am pretty sure I crossed the line. I felt I was "innocent passage".

I would think CBP would recognize a boat with full sails underway is not trying to enter country and spread Covid 19. If sails dropped and idle speed, I could understand CBP taking a closer look.

The problem when you have mental midgets in CBP.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240292
11/20/2020 02:38 AM
11/20/2020 02:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
There is most certainly more to this story than a sailboat tacking upwind and crossing the border between the BVI and the USVI. Both countries UNCLOS signatories and due to the wind direction in the Sir Francis Drake Channel boats sailing upwind are forced to repeatedly cross the water border. Both border patrols know this and it is impossible for the officers not to know these rules. Hence there are elements in this that we haven't been told about.

If the boat was just sailing, then this case will go to Den Haag and the BVI will not only have to pay back fines and damages, but will get fined as well.

p.s. The U.S.A. and Britain are signatories of the Hague Conventions of 1899 and the BVI was grandfathered in as a British Overseas Territory. The international permanent court of arbitration is where this type of case would be heard, and it sits in Den Haag, Netherlands.

Last edited by Zanshin; 11/20/2020 02:49 AM. Reason: Added postscript
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240320
11/20/2020 11:34 AM
11/20/2020 11:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline
Traveler
tpcook  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
Very poor public relations for BVI. Especially a 20k fine??


tpcook
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240327
11/20/2020 12:31 PM
11/20/2020 12:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
I still can't find any corroboration of this anywhere. There are clear rules as to when the BVI might think that this is not innocent passage - the most likely one is if they were fishing..

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240345
11/20/2020 02:15 PM
11/20/2020 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
sleepychef Offline
Traveler
sleepychef  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town

Last edited by sleepychef; 11/20/2020 02:16 PM.
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240347
11/20/2020 02:32 PM
11/20/2020 02:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,900
VI,GA,AZ
sail445 Offline
Traveler
sail445  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,900
VI,GA,AZ
The BVI don’t go by the rules and maritime laws because each person in law enforcement go by what they think at the moment and don’t know most of the laws.
About 15 years ago a boat coming in from St Maarten arrived at night with their yellow flag up dropped anchor and in the morning had their boat confiscated before C&I opened and they were fined for illegal entry

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240353
11/20/2020 02:47 PM
11/20/2020 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 610
Northern Virginia
ecm56 Offline
Traveler
ecm56  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 610
Northern Virginia
Pretty sure we were seeing one of the BVI vessel monitoring boats anchored off Great Thatch last week while we were on St. John. Not a very good photo (sorry).

Attached Files PXL_20201114_153344695_2.jpg
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Zanshin] #240412
11/21/2020 11:13 AM
11/21/2020 11:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,218
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Offline
Traveler
Maria_and_Steve  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,218
Colorado and Sailing the World
The wife/SO of the captain is Peggy Gregory. She is on FB and confirmed the incident. She went on to explain that the captain will be forthcoming with more information: "We will be giving facts to reliable sources ", she stated.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240422
11/21/2020 01:36 PM
11/21/2020 01:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
I've had a friend note that they might have been snorkeling in the Indians prior to getting stopped - might that be true?

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240426
11/21/2020 02:05 PM
11/21/2020 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
If they stopped at the Indians they legally must clear customs.
G

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: GeorgeC1] #240430
11/21/2020 02:22 PM
11/21/2020 02:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 906
Memphis, BVI, CT
R
RatmansWife Offline
Traveler
RatmansWife  Offline
Traveler
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 906
Memphis, BVI, CT
Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
If they stopped at the Indians they legally must clear customs.
G

Which is not currently possible. A big fine, but a stupid move, if true.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240433
11/21/2020 04:01 PM
11/21/2020 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,095
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
Traveler
LocalSailor  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,095
USVI
Exclusion Zone -- tough channel at Mary Pt /Narrows/ Great Thatch

https://bvi.gov.vg/sites/default/fi...vised_not_to_sail_in_exclusion_zone.jpeg

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240437
11/21/2020 05:58 PM
11/21/2020 05:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,126
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Online content
Traveler
warren460  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,126
Ontario, Canada
The owner of the vessel advised that they were not snorkeling over by the Indians.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show) and Lagoon 450, (both part of the Charter Caribe fleet (all inclusive charters) -St Thomas USVI https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240452
11/22/2020 01:13 AM
11/22/2020 01:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
That would explain the fines - a vessel entering the exclusion zone on the BVI side of the water border. I don't see any sunset date on that exclusion zone, but certainly hope that it will be rescinded on December 1st when the BVI opens up again.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240460
11/22/2020 08:26 AM
11/22/2020 08:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
Traveler
GeorgeC1  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,700
GA/NC
I don’t think a exclusion zone is legal unless they drop out of the international agreements they have signed or they are taking direction from North Korea!

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240464
11/22/2020 09:03 AM
11/22/2020 09:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Looking into maritime law precedents there are cases to be made both for, and against, exclusion zones. see such references as https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1666&context=ils

Most likely the BVI's zone will be upheld - but I personally feel that they might have won a battle but doomed their war to failure.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240465
11/22/2020 09:06 AM
11/22/2020 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
sleepychef Offline
Traveler
sleepychef  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
The exclusion zone was set up to stop illegal entry and even BVI boats need permission to visit JVD using the direct route. If they were inside that zone then they were well inside BVI waters.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: sleepychef] #240469
11/22/2020 09:46 AM
11/22/2020 09:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,329
New Jersey, USA
DanS Online content
Traveler
DanS  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,329
New Jersey, USA
Here's a description of the exclusion zone: https://bvi.org.uk/boaters-advised-not-to-sail-in-exclusion-zone/

I suspect it has a typo. It says, "The exclusion zone is an area west of 64*38.300’W on the south side of Tortola." That longitude is about at Nanny Cay, and it would make a lot more sense for the zone to be east of that point. And in that case, the exclusion zone would not include the narrow area around Great Thatch, Little Thatch, and Frenchman's Cay.

Dan cheers

Edited to add: OK, based on the posts below, please ignore this one: smile

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240471
11/22/2020 09:55 AM
11/22/2020 09:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 906
Memphis, BVI, CT
R
RatmansWife Offline
Traveler
RatmansWife  Offline
Traveler
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 906
Memphis, BVI, CT
The purpose of the exclusion zone is to prevent smuggling from the USVI into the BVI. So, as I understand it, they do not want unauthorized boats in the waters between St. John, St. Thomas and Tortola or the western islands.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240472
11/22/2020 10:02 AM
11/22/2020 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
sleepychef Offline
Traveler
sleepychef  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
Not a typo that is where the exclusion zone is you need permission to sail out of Nanny Cay directly towards JVD

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240507
11/23/2020 08:06 AM
11/23/2020 08:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Any updates if the fines and impound of the yacht were due to entering the exclusion zone or for other reasons?

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Zanshin] #240526
11/23/2020 09:19 AM
11/23/2020 09:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
Traveler
TomSW  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
WI. St. Thomas
BE CAREFUL OUT THERE
After delivering an Outbound 46 from Newport, RI to St Thomas last week, the owner Kevin Gregory, crew Andrew Dunbar, and myself went for a day sail to ease into society after nine days at sea. On Wednesday (Nov. 18), we were heading to Francis Bay, St John, USVI when we unwittingly sailed two miles beyond the US border, into BVI waters.

Within minutes a black hulled POLICE RIB pulls along and tells us to “stop the boat.” After brief questioning, the officer phoned his superiors, completes the call, requests our passports and ships documents, and escorts us to West End, BVI for processing.

While powering in, Kevin, a St Thomas resident was busily phoning attorneys and references to defend our case. Upon arrival at the customs dock, charges were filed for failure to report in upon entry to BVI water and failure to submit paperwork within 12 hours.

The essence here is that we weren’t intending to clear into BVI because our ultimate destination was a US harbor. However, after 27 hours and a $20,000 fine, we were released. Kevin was not allowed to take an exception before signing the admission of guilt.

Before we left, the BVI police brought in a US flagged 45’ yawl with two elderly couples, presumably for similar treatment, eventually escorting them to Road Harbour for processing. This is a money grab, be careful out there.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240531
11/23/2020 10:22 AM
11/23/2020 10:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 61
Mill Valley, CA
H
Husker Offline
Traveler
Husker  Offline
Traveler
H
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 61
Mill Valley, CA
So basically the waters east of St. John and west of the exclusion "boarder" from the west end of Norman to Nanny Cay are a no fly zone for any boats? Certainly boats coming from USVI as described by TomSW. What about BVI-cleared boats transiting from, say, Road Town to JVD via Thatch Island Cut?

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240533
11/23/2020 10:32 AM
11/23/2020 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
sleepychef Offline
Traveler
sleepychef  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 954
road town
Permission needed from Customs for BVI boats or else take the long way around

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240535
11/23/2020 10:40 AM
11/23/2020 10:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
Zanshin Offline
Traveler
Zanshin  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,742
BVI
I hope that this exclusion zone will be dropped upon the re-opening on December 1st!

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240548
11/23/2020 12:11 PM
11/23/2020 12:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
tpcook Offline
Traveler
tpcook  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
South Sound Villa Virgin Gorda
BVI Love!!


tpcook
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240549
11/23/2020 12:13 PM
11/23/2020 12:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
D
DaveZ Offline
Traveler
DaveZ  Offline
Traveler
D
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Given these heavy handed tactics sailors who are truly transiting should be ready to keep sailing and immediately call the USCG. Better to run for US waters and deal with USCG/CBP than these thugs. Just another reason to re-think BVI as a chartering destination.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Maria_and_Steve] #240555
11/23/2020 01:05 PM
11/23/2020 01:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Maria and Steve--Looks to be exactly the same thing posted by TomSW here in this thread, earlier today..


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Carol_Hill] #240558
11/23/2020 01:31 PM
11/23/2020 01:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,218
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Offline
Traveler
Maria_and_Steve  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,218
Colorado and Sailing the World
Sorry, missed that post.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240559
11/23/2020 01:37 PM
11/23/2020 01:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
WI. St. Thomas
TomSW Offline
Traveler
TomSW  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
WI. St. Thomas
For the record, I was not the guy on the boat. I just re-posted what he wrote.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: CaptainJay] #240560
11/23/2020 01:39 PM
11/23/2020 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,167
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
Traveler
JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,167
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
2 miles is a pretty big "mistake" if you know the borders are closed.

Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: TomSW] #240563
11/23/2020 01:57 PM
11/23/2020 01:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Tom--thanks for the clarification.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: Maria_and_Steve] #240564
11/23/2020 01:58 PM
11/23/2020 01:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
Traveler
Carol_Hill  Offline
Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 73,210
Central Florida!
Maria and Steve--no problem, I just re-read your post a couple of times, trying to figure out if it was different.


Carol Hill
Re: BVI Impounding boats [Re: JasonHelmbrecht] #240567
11/23/2020 02:45 PM
11/23/2020 02:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,193
VIRGINIA
B
BEERMAN Offline
Traveler
BEERMAN  Offline
Traveler
B
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,193
VIRGINIA
Just read through this thread and Jason I agree "2 miles" is quite a distance with local knowledge (St Thomas owner). The author of the email might have been guestimating distance from the shoreline of St John? or actual border? Leinster Bay is 2nm from West End. I'm curious where the boat was approached. Either way, when people get jammed up like this do the stiff penalties usually get reduced? Unfortunate incident just sailing around.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1