TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands BVI Impounding boats

I just spoke to a contact that I trust in the BVI's. They stopped and impounded two vessels today for entering BVI waters. The boat he knew of personally was a 1/4 mile inside BVI waters. Sailing with no intention of landing onshore. This would normally be considered an innocent passage. He was fined twenty thousand dollars.

If you are chartering or sailing in USVI waters do not cross the border.

Jay - private boats or charter boats? If charter, what company?
I've was chased by the BVI patrol boat last summer. I believe I was inside US waters when they came to yell at me. But not necessarily clear on the chart plotter where the border is located. This past charter in November I made the first tack very early to make sure they understood I knew not to cross into BVI waters. When CPB is broke, bored, and paranoid bad things can happen.

All boats have a right of innocent passage and I believe the BVI has signed those accords. This should become a government to government issue.

The boat that I could confirm is private.

Tacking upwind in Drakes Passage - especially around the Narrows -- it is almost impossible not to cross into BVI waters .I did hear of a vessel being fined earlier this week.

WOW, I sailed around St John last month and I am pretty sure I crossed the line. I felt I was "innocent passage".

I would think CBP would recognize a boat with full sails underway is not trying to enter country and spread Covid 19. If sails dropped and idle speed, I could understand CBP taking a closer look.

The problem when you have mental midgets in CBP.

There is most certainly more to this story than a sailboat tacking upwind and crossing the border between the BVI and the USVI. Both countries UNCLOS signatories and due to the wind direction in the Sir Francis Drake Channel boats sailing upwind are forced to repeatedly cross the water border. Both border patrols know this and it is impossible for the officers not to know these rules. Hence there are elements in this that we haven't been told about.

If the boat was just sailing, then this case will go to Den Haag and the BVI will not only have to pay back fines and damages, but will get fined as well.

p.s. The U.S.A. and Britain are signatories of the Hague Conventions of 1899 and the BVI was grandfathered in as a British Overseas Territory. The international permanent court of arbitration is where this type of case would be heard, and it sits in Den Haag, Netherlands.

Very poor public relations for BVI. Especially a 20k fine??

I still can't find any corroboration of this anywhere. There are clear rules as to when the BVI might think that this is not innocent passage - the most likely one is if they were fishing..

http://www.virginislandsnewsonline.com/en/news/vessel-fined-20k-for-illegal-entry-another-detained

which island is in the foreground?

The BVI don’t go by the rules and maritime laws because each person in law enforcement go by what they think at the moment and don’t know most of the laws.
About 15 years ago a boat coming in from St Maarten arrived at night with their yellow flag up dropped anchor and in the morning had their boat confiscated before C&I opened and they were fined for illegal entry

Pretty sure we were seeing one of the BVI vessel monitoring boats anchored off Great Thatch last week while we were on St. John. Not a very good photo (sorry).

The wife/SO of the captain is Peggy Gregory. She is on FB and confirmed the incident. She went on to explain that the captain will be forthcoming with more information: "We will be giving facts to reliable sources ", she stated.

I've had a friend note that they might have been snorkeling in the Indians prior to getting stopped - might that be true?

If they stopped at the Indians they legally must clear customs.
G

Which is not currently possible. A big fine, but a stupid move, if true.

Exclusion Zone -- tough channel at Mary Pt /Narrows/ Great Thatch

https://bvi.gov.vg/sites/default/fi...vised_not_to_sail_in_exclusion_zone.jpeg

The owner of the vessel advised that they were not snorkeling over by the Indians.

That would explain the fines - a vessel entering the exclusion zone on the BVI side of the water border. I don't see any sunset date on that exclusion zone, but certainly hope that it will be rescinded on December 1st when the BVI opens up again.

I don’t think a exclusion zone is legal unless they drop out of the international agreements they have signed or they are taking direction from North Korea!

Looking into maritime law precedents there are cases to be made both for, and against, exclusion zones. see such references as https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1666&context=ils

Most likely the BVI's zone will be upheld - but I personally feel that they might have won a battle but doomed their war to failure.

The exclusion zone was set up to stop illegal entry and even BVI boats need permission to visit JVD using the direct route. If they were inside that zone then they were well inside BVI waters.

Here's a description of the exclusion zone: https://bvi.org.uk/boaters-advised-not-to-sail-in-exclusion-zone/

I suspect it has a typo. It says, "The exclusion zone is an area west of 64*38.300’W on the south side of Tortola." That longitude is about at Nanny Cay, and it would make a lot more sense for the zone to be east of that point. And in that case, the exclusion zone would not include the narrow area around Great Thatch, Little Thatch, and Frenchman's Cay.

Dan

Edited to add: OK, based on the posts below, please ignore this one:

The purpose of the exclusion zone is to prevent smuggling from the USVI into the BVI. So, as I understand it, they do not want unauthorized boats in the waters between St. John, St. Thomas and Tortola or the western islands.

Not a typo that is where the exclusion zone is you need permission to sail out of Nanny Cay directly towards JVD

Any updates if the fines and impound of the yacht were due to entering the exclusion zone or for other reasons?

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE
After delivering an Outbound 46 from Newport, RI to St Thomas last week, the owner Kevin Gregory, crew Andrew Dunbar, and myself went for a day sail to ease into society after nine days at sea. On Wednesday (Nov. 18), we were heading to Francis Bay, St John, USVI when we unwittingly sailed two miles beyond the US border, into BVI waters.

Within minutes a black hulled POLICE RIB pulls along and tells us to “stop the boat.” After brief questioning, the officer phoned his superiors, completes the call, requests our passports and ships documents, and escorts us to West End, BVI for processing.

While powering in, Kevin, a St Thomas resident was busily phoning attorneys and references to defend our case. Upon arrival at the customs dock, charges were filed for failure to report in upon entry to BVI water and failure to submit paperwork within 12 hours.

The essence here is that we weren’t intending to clear into BVI because our ultimate destination was a US harbor. However, after 27 hours and a $20,000 fine, we were released. Kevin was not allowed to take an exception before signing the admission of guilt.

Before we left, the BVI police brought in a US flagged 45’ yawl with two elderly couples, presumably for similar treatment, eventually escorting them to Road Harbour for processing. This is a money grab, be careful out there.

So basically the waters east of St. John and west of the exclusion "boarder" from the west end of Norman to Nanny Cay are a no fly zone for any boats? Certainly boats coming from USVI as described by TomSW. What about BVI-cleared boats transiting from, say, Road Town to JVD via Thatch Island Cut?

Permission needed from Customs for BVI boats or else take the long way around

I hope that this exclusion zone will be dropped upon the re-opening on December 1st!

BVI Love!!

Given these heavy handed tactics sailors who are truly transiting should be ready to keep sailing and immediately call the USCG. Better to run for US waters and deal with USCG/CBP than these thugs. Just another reason to re-think BVI as a chartering destination.

Maria and Steve--Looks to be exactly the same thing posted by TomSW here in this thread, earlier today..

Sorry, missed that post.

For the record, I was not the guy on the boat. I just re-posted what he wrote.

2 miles is a pretty big "mistake" if you know the borders are closed.

Tom--thanks for the clarification.

Maria and Steve--no problem, I just re-read your post a couple of times, trying to figure out if it was different.

Just read through this thread and Jason I agree "2 miles" is quite a distance with local knowledge (St Thomas owner). The author of the email might have been guestimating distance from the shoreline of St John? or actual border? Leinster Bay is 2nm from West End. I'm curious where the boat was approached. Either way, when people get jammed up like this do the stiff penalties usually get reduced? Unfortunate incident just sailing around.