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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Manpot]
#240274
11/19/2020 06:06 PM
11/19/2020 06:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,901 Maine
Breeze
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,901
Maine
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My 14 year old niece has been flying right-seat with her dad in a wide range of aircraft from tail-draggers to dual-engine turbo-props for the better part of 5 years. She was left seat 2 summers ago in both glider and lake craft, with supervision. He's turned her over now to an actual flight school because he really MUST make sure she earns her quals, and he's convinced she is ready to do just that. She won't do her over-land distance solo for a while, but even after that, there are years and years and years before she would even dream of right seat in a commercial aircraft.
Putting a computer in charge of an aircraft without the back-up of an effective kill-switch manned by a qualified aircraft captain is hardly the definition of Boeing's ( or any other owner/operator) best work. First Max that went down should have been the last one.
More than one charter boat has gone aground because auto-pilot was misused by < someone> a charter company trusted as " captain". CYOA won't clear a boat for the STX crossing without 2 CG licensed captains aboard. I'm pretty sure the reason why is no big mystery.
Last edited by Breeze; 11/19/2020 06:14 PM.
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Manpot]
#240276
11/19/2020 06:49 PM
11/19/2020 06:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,089 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,089
GA/NC
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The aircraft had and always has had kill switches for the trim system. In the first crash they were turned off per procedures and the aircraft continued to fly. They then put them back on and passed control to the copilot and the aircraft crashed. On the prior flight on that aircraft the crew had the exact same failure. They used the disable switches and flew the aircraft using manual trim to the destination without issues. In the second crash they were not used but the aircraft was still flyable. Neither pilot however noted or bothered to reduce power from full takeoff power. As a aircraft speed increases out of trim conditions increase. Your 14 year old niece had more experience than the copilot in the crash. Things are done differently in Africa. I once had a Air traffic Controller admonish me after multiple radio calls he did not answer about bothering him while he was trying to sleep! Here is a statement on his experience: Two-hundred hours is extremely low," Aimer told Business Insider. "In an emergency, it becomes a problem. If you have a complicated airplane and you basically put a student pilot in there, that's not a good thing. Even if the guy in the left seat has so much experience, if you have so much imbalance of experience, that can be a problem."
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 11/19/2020 07:14 PM.
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Breeze]
#240508
11/23/2020 09:11 AM
11/23/2020 09:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 559 Apex, NC
agrimsrud
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 559
Apex, NC
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CYOA won't clear a boat for the STX crossing without 2 CG licensed captains aboard. I'm pretty sure the reason why is no big mystery. I don't think that's entirely correct. I believe it's not 2 CG captains but rather two people qualified to captain the boat. If it was 2x CG captains it would be a very small subset. I don't think CYOA wishes to make that trip impossible but rather make sure it's safe. I tried to find the rules on their website but I don't see it there. So if you want to go to STX I would think a conversation with them would be the place to start. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and I can attest that it's a great sail and a fun place to hang out. And if you have entered STT following the entry requirements then no other regulations are required for STX.
Life's short - sail more!
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Manpot]
#240575
11/23/2020 04:37 PM
11/23/2020 04:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,089 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,089
GA/NC
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I am not sure about your xenophobia comment but the US requires 1500 hours to fly as a copilot for a air carrier. Europe has lower hour requirements but very tough testing standards. Several African airlines were seeing very low pass rates on candidates they sent to Europe or the US for training. They initiated their own in house training programs and now enjoy a near 100% pass rate and drop them into the right seat with 200 hours. The global statistics for jet hull losses in 2019 was .15 per million flight hours. Africa was 1.39.
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 11/23/2020 04:45 PM.
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Manpot]
#240627
11/24/2020 07:57 AM
11/24/2020 07:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 54 London, England
sunman60
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 54
London, England
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I respect your opinions because you both are pilots. But it's hard to get away from this; Boeing commissioned a plane with a new 'safety' software override capable of crashing the plane on it's own, and in my opinion that's horrendous. I don't recall these 'inexperienced , poorly trained' pilots crashing 737's before this, the aircraft and their pilots have an excellent safety record historically. 8 Americans, 18 Canadians, 7 Brits , 33 other Europeans were amongst the fatalities and the exiting CEO walked away with a $62m severance package, heaven knows what we'd all be thinking and saying if this were a Chinese or Airbus product. Peace brothers, I'm not here to argue, I'm just very sad about it all.
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Manpot]
#240633
11/24/2020 09:21 AM
11/24/2020 09:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Wasn't the other contributing factor that the sensor failed and there was only one. And that the US airlines that fly these paid the extra for a second sensor? Thus making it far less likely the issue would occur in the first place in the US regardless of whether or not the pilots would handle it better? Having a safety system with no redundancy seems like a big flaw to me.
Matt
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: sunman60]
#240642
11/24/2020 10:01 AM
11/24/2020 10:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 211
Kegoangoango
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 211
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I respect your opinions because you both are pilots. Seriously??? One IS a 737 pilot. It’s NOT an opinion - it’s fact. If you are properly trained the planes don’t crash. If you are not, they crash. Both are still true if the part fails. Is that really hard to understand?.
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Re: 737 MAX
[Re: Kegoangoango]
#240644
11/24/2020 10:10 AM
11/24/2020 10:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,976 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Traveler
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,976
Central Florida!
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All righty then. I have no clue what any of this has to do with the BVI and it's gotten pretty chippy, so will end this one here.
Carol Hill
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