Captain Jay--excellent post...

Well said, Captain Jay.

Just saw this on BVI Abroad Facebook page....

"USA state dept travel advisory for the BVI
Level 3 – Reconsider Travel: Avoid travel due to serious risks to safety and security. The Department of State provides additional advice for travelers in these areas in the Travel Advisory."

Hi Capt Jay

you are misinformed about the Covid outbreak no strippers involved.

Just saw this on google news. Sounds like they were detained longer than 27 hours.


https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your...ister-detained-in-british-virgin-islands

Not strippers -- classified as poll workers for election.

Worst kept secret in the Caribbean. "Pole workers it is."

lcrich--same link already posted above. Still going on, apparently..

I just removed a couple of posts here, which had gone further off topic and into personal insults. You know guys, if this weren't such an IMPORTANT topic, I would lock it down right now.

Get back to the subject at hand. And this chippiness stops NOW.

Wow! I'm just realized I'm traversing USVI waters on nearly every trip out of Soper's Hole to Norman Island, and seems I remember having plenty of company. Looking at Google Earth, it appears I would need to head east to Nanny Cay before turning south.

Noel that is the exclusion zone,not territorial waters so hopefully you are safe.

My fear is that if this is not settled soon the US will ban travel to the BVI.

This is confusing. What exactly is the Exclusion Zone? Is the area west of the Norman-Nanny Cay line and east of the USVI/BVI border a no-fly zone?

Sounds to me like someone in Washington needs to talk to someone in London to get this sorted out.

There has been a lot of talk about the "exclusion zone". That zone is for BVI based boats in BVI waters. They closed this area to their own boats when they reopened recreational boating to people already legally in the territory. This "exclusion zone" has nothing to do with the US side of the Narrows or anything to do with US boats. They do not have the jurisdiction to exclude US boats or any other boats legally in US waters from transiting the US side of the narrows. They do have the right to close the border and the boundary. See the link below.
BVI Exclusion Zone

George--Frankly, I think the US should consider making that threat anyway. This whole thing is BS.. Total over-reaction.

As has been stated already, the BVI was within its rights in stopping the two boats in question. But their actions and reactions in these cases seem to have been grossly disproportionate to the transgressions involved and I, for one, hope that the BVI government learns that every action on their part has an equal and opposite reaction. Unfortunately the citizens of the BVI will have to bear the brunt of any sanctions - but perhaps the bureaucrats and politicians involved will suffer as well; perhaps sooner than the next elections.

Yes, a gross over-reaction to minor transgressions.

Maybe I am missing something but why exactly is the US going to "threaten" a strong ally for doing something that is totally within its rights under recognized international law?

Never ever been a fan of the BVI government but they clearly indicated here with these 2 examples if you want to play loosely with their boundaries and rules there is a price to pay. As a Captain I stay away from international boundaries in normal times (or at least make my intentions publicly known) and here the BVI have telegraphed their intentions repeatedly on this and have had Covid come into BVI from people not respecting their boundaries.

I agree with Zanshin that BVI has a complete disregard for their goodwill among both tourists and the BVI businesses that support tourism....

But "International Incident"....highly unlikely.

Even this matter this week between UK and USA which was tragic never rose to an "International Incident"
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wo...24-o5m2fjap3bg3lhv2o6enhixwb4-story.html

The lesson here for serious Captains is don't mess with their boundaries.

They are holding US citizens without any charges being filed. They have given no notice of when they will be charged or released. They were passengers on the boat and not the skipper. This is treatment you expect from North Korea not the BVI. There is also the concept of innocent passage and how it applies to exclusion zones. There is some question if this exclusion zone is even legal given other accords the BVI has agreed to abide by.

My friend I don't believe this involves the exclusion zone as Captain Jay pointed out....

if they were truly 2 miles inside BVI waters then I don't know how the "innocent passage" plays out and if 2 miles then it couldn't be going around Mary Point as 2 miles would put them north of Thatch.

I am quite sure as good as a captain and a pilot as you are you wouldn't make this "mistake" especially given the circumstances. Was the punishment overly harsh? For sure...

Does it come up to the standard of Otto Warmbier in North Korea? Not even close. I would point out the other boat was released so I imagine they are holding this boat for quarantine since 1 crew member publicly admitted that they broke quarantine in PR.

Again I am not a fan of the BVI government but do understand, respect, and appreciate the rule of law....

Where did the fact "2 miles" come from?

That was posted from the people aboard the impounded sailboat, the link is somewhere in this thread. I wondered about that distance as well, since 2 miles is more than an insignificant "incursion" in that area (considering the Sir Francis Drake passage has a distance of about 2 miles from Tortola to St. Thomas in the exclusion zone and the sea-border runs through the middle...)

Here is an updated thread...note the hearing is on Monday. The people on the boat claim they were "1.5 miles" in BVI and were leaving Maho bay for "another close place to snorkle" on the video.

https://wjla.com/news/local/virgini...ister-detained-in-british-virgin-islands

Well, that's pretty interesting..

So for a brief moment there was a post here from Sleepychef that referenced the 4 were at the "Indians" and this statement...don't know what happened to his post as it is gone now but here is the link.

https://bvi.gov.vg/media-centre/sta...ding-four-persons-entering-bvi-illegally

That BVI government post is highly disingenuous. It basically says that the US news post is wrong, but doesn't supply any corroborating information apart from stating that they have placed the people involved in quarantine at the government's expense (we'll see if that turns out to be true - I'm highly suspicious of that statement and would be really surprised if those under quarantine aren't charged for the privilege). And I can't believe that they can post an article describing this house-arrest and "BVILOVE" at the same time! "We love you, but we'll detain you anyway and please tell your friends to visit, too..."

sleepychef must have deleted that link himself, as that was what I was responding to.

agree Zanshin but don't think the story from the 4 is genuine either...will know more on Monday

BVI is clearly losing the PR battle....

I am sure the BVI has caught others who actually intended to enter and go ashore in the BVI illegally. The earlier covid outbreak being a example. Does anyone know if those individuals were required to pay a 20,000.00 dollar fine and if not what the punishments were? Does the BVI differentiate between a honest mistake that posed zero covid threat until they were apprehended verses those who actually pose a threat with illegal entry?

I had read that they left maho and were sailing in the direction
of Jost with the intention of tacking back over. Who the heck knows

Here is another story that just resolved as well...

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/...tish-virgin-islands-finally-returns-home

I think the other great lesson is if you have an issue get legal help ASAP. I would note boat 1 that was released apparently had legal counsel on the phone before they docked and the issue was resolved. This boat on the other hand decided to broadcast to the world that they were guilty and had even broken PR quarantine....a good attorney would have not only advised them to be quiet but at least make sure if you aren't you don't admit wrongdoing publicly in a further attempt to embarrass an already embarrassed BVI. In the Foy matter in the link even the US involvement didn't really alter the outcome with the exception of possibly reducing his fine....

I am not condoning BVIs behavior here but I think it is a strong warning for all serious captains

The people who were caught entering while the borders are closed are simply being quarantined just like any belonger or resident entering the BVI at this time. They are in the same hotel everyone stays in when quarantining. The cost is being covered by the BVI citizens and based on the cost to quarantine 4 people, the $20k does not come close. They are lucky the full quarantine cost wasn't passed on to them along with the fines.

Interesting. Wonder why there wasn't some official word from the government to that effect before now? And the press release seemed to indicate that they were being criminally charged, but the timing seemed to be AFTER the story came out in the news.. So, are they being criminally charged?

You generally don’t drag someone into your country to place them in quarantine. They are being held under guard against their will. The standard term for that is arrest.

That is how quarantine has been done here since June. If only they'd waited until December 1 to violate the border, they could have quarantined for only 4 days.

Completely agree. It makes zero sense. If this is simply to protect the BVI from COVID-19, they should have been warned and escorted back across the border. No contact and zero risk to anyone.

I'd guess there's more to the story or they got tired of warning people and needed to send a message. The timing seems like the perfect time to send a message as USVI charters will be increasing closer to the holiday season. Immigration officers in most countries have a reputation of being strict and that's for a reason. Just because it's normally a "softer" sea border does not make it OK to assume there will be a warning.

I understand boats need to have space to tack but I'm also pretty sure that boat has a engine and not need to tack thru a narrow channel just because they felt like day sailing.

Completely agree with Jason...they sent a loud and clear message after signaling multiple times (e.g. inviting UK to help protect borders, setting up barges to monitor, issuing warnings, Foy matter) that they were getting "serious" about their border especially after being embarrassed about the smuggling operation and someone sneaking in from STT and infecting people with COVID and I believe causing a lockdown.

If people want to continue to poke the bear backed in the corner there will be consequences...

We will find out today what exactly they are charged with.

I have to disagree, the boaters aren’t pulling into port and in no way is there a chance to pass on a disease while out in the open water.