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Backing up to a mooring ball? #24155
12/21/2013 10:00 PM
12/21/2013 10:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 221
Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline OP
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Hi Folks,

My wife and I recently completed a charter with the Moorings at St. Martin. Of course, with just the two of us, it fell to my wife to be up on the bow to pick up the mooring. She did fine but while anchored, we saw a cat come in and turn in front of the mooring and then back up to it. The captain then just stepped down to the swim platform and hooked up with what looked like very little effort.

I'm not sure if he then walked the line forward or if it was just a long line already attached to the bow.

Anyway, that looked like a pretty good idea and I just wondered if anyone else did it that way and what are the pros and cons.

Thanks,

Tom

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Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24156
12/22/2013 04:22 AM
12/22/2013 04:22 AM
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Posts: 3,522
Worcester, U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
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It works well on a cat because of the twin motors. Not quite so easy on a mono. Big advantage is how easy it is to pick up the ball. Big disadvantage is how close your prop is to lines that might get caught in it.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: Jeannius] #24157
12/22/2013 08:29 AM
12/22/2013 08:29 AM
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Saint Thomas, USVI
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It can be done and made to look easy with good boat handling skills but there is no room for error. On a cat with sail drives if you miss or over run your approach you will put the painter in the prop. Picking it up from the bow you have 40 feet of boat between the line and the prop.
Jay

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: CaptainJay] #24158
12/22/2013 01:05 PM
12/22/2013 01:05 PM
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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several years ago I saw Mike Kneafsey pick up a ball single handed mid ship, starboard side, nice pick up.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24159
12/22/2013 01:44 PM
12/22/2013 01:44 PM
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Worcester, U.K. and Spain
Jeannius Offline
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I never actually pick up at the stern as I have an excellent first mate who never misses the ball.

On my own, I drop the anchor, cos I don't like paying!

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: Jeannius] #24160
12/22/2013 03:50 PM
12/22/2013 03:50 PM
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Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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We had to do this one trip when we realized the boat hook we had was broken. Easy in a Cat - I'd only do it if necessary on a mono since it would be much easier to get the prop wrapped.


Matt
Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24161
12/22/2013 05:46 PM
12/22/2013 05:46 PM
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Quote
sail2wind said:
several years ago I saw Mike Kneafsey pick up a ball single handed mid ship, starboard side, nice pick up.


Evan itís not that hard with a mono. Had to do it when our designated picker upper dude couldnít get out of his bunk because he was in de-tox from the night before. This was in the Grenadines where you donít pick up a pennant you pick up the ball. Rig a long line from the bow cleat Ė pull up next to the ball slooooooowly - slip it in to the eye and casually walk to the bow and cleat that end. Take a bow. If it doesnít go that way swear a lot and go to a different location and repeat. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Banana.gif" alt="" />

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: rhans] #24162
12/22/2013 08:02 PM
12/22/2013 08:02 PM
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Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised that there are so many warnings about getting the mooring lines wrapped in the prop.

Obviously, I haven't done this before and, in fact, I have virtually no experience backing a large monohull. I understand that the boat doesn't steer very well in reverse but it seems like, if I'm backing slowly towards the ball, I'd have very little chance of overrunning it and getting things in the prop. Even if I really overcook it and back into the ball too fast, I just take it out of gear and wait until I drift back off of it right?

The big risk that I was expecting was if I had the the bow line led back along say, the starboard side and I back up to the ball and tie onto it, but the boat turns such the ball is on the port side. Is there a chance I could get hung up and not be able to "unwind"? It seems like it would blow around but maybe it could get stuck?

I really want to try this but I want to get as many tips as possible before I do.

Thanks,

Tom

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24163
12/22/2013 08:16 PM
12/22/2013 08:16 PM
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Michigan
rhans Offline
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Quote
tmsxmsails said:
Thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised that there are so many warnings about getting the mooring lines wrapped in the prop.

Obviously, I haven't done this before and, in fact, I have virtually no experience backing a large monohull. I understand that the boat doesn't steer very well in reverse but it seems like, if I'm backing slowly towards the ball, I'd have very little chance of overrunning it and getting things in the prop. Even if I really overcook it and back into the ball too fast, I just take it out of gear and wait until I drift back off of it right?

The big risk that I was expecting was if I had the the bow line led back along say, the starboard side and I back up to the ball and tie onto it, but the boat turns such the ball is on the port side. Is there a chance I could get hung up and not be able to "unwind"? It seems like it would blow around but maybe it could get stuck?

I really want to try this but I want to get as many tips as possible before I do.

Thanks,

Tom


A little clarification.
I never said ďBack into a mooring with a monoĒ. That would be dumb.
What sail2 and I where referring to is the practice of slowly pulling abeam of the mooring and grabbing it.
DO NOT TRY TO BACK INTO IT

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24164
12/22/2013 08:23 PM
12/22/2013 08:23 PM
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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The prop does not need to be turning to do damage. As you know, when you backing up and reach the ball, the boat is not going to completely stop. A taught mooring ball line could snap, bend, or even worse, disengage the prop. I have never thought of even attempting to pick a ball from the stern in a mono.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24165
12/22/2013 10:36 PM
12/22/2013 10:36 PM
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Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline OP
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Okay, well, the question was about backing up to it but regardless; Why is there more risk of damaging the prop on a mono than on a cat?

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24166
12/22/2013 11:46 PM
12/22/2013 11:46 PM
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maytrix Offline
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Because a mono doesn't maneuver as easily. IF you get the line caught in the prop, damage done could be the same regardless of the boat, its just easier on a cat to keep it where you want.

The other issue can be getting it caught around the keel. Wind plays a factor as well.

Best bet is to pick it up from the bow - only reason we've ever picked up from the stern (as close to port or starboard side as possible) was due to us not having a usable boat hook.


Matt
Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: maytrix] #24167
12/23/2013 06:05 AM
12/23/2013 06:05 AM
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sail445 Offline
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I cleat a 15' dock line on the bow and motor up to the mooring until I'm almost at a stop, pop it in neutral and run up with the boat hook grab the pennant and slide the dock line through the eye of the pennant.
Works perfect 99% of the time even in high winds.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24168
12/23/2013 12:43 PM
12/23/2013 12:43 PM
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Caribbean
Tortola7 Offline
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Quote
sail2wind said:
several years ago I saw Mike Kneafsey pick up a ball single handed mid ship, starboard side, nice pick up.


Kneafsey also always had a Wichard snap shacke rigged, which makes singlehanding easy. Once you have the pickup done you can rig a safety line to the top of the ball at your leisure.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: Tortola7] #24169
12/23/2013 01:38 PM
12/23/2013 01:38 PM
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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I have the same shackle, still not easy.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: Tortola7] #24170
12/23/2013 03:17 PM
12/23/2013 03:17 PM
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VI,NY,AZ
sail445 Offline
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Quote
Tortola7 said:
Quote
sail2wind said:
several years ago I saw Mike Kneafsey pick up a ball single handed mid ship, starboard side, nice pick up.


Kneafsey also always had a Wichard snap shacke rigged, which makes singlehanding easy. Once you have the pickup done you can rig a safety line to the top of the ball at your leisure.


Question, it seems if your single handling and your connected to a mooring ring with the Carbine hook and the trades are blowing, how can you disconnect it without forward motion to slacken the line?

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail445] #24171
12/23/2013 05:45 PM
12/23/2013 05:45 PM
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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with much difficulty

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24172
12/23/2013 07:32 PM
12/23/2013 07:32 PM
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sail445 Offline
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Quote
sail2wind said:
with much difficulty

So basically your better off running a line through the eye of the mooring so it can be released when you untie it from the cleat which makes the carbine only effective when you have someone at the helm.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail445] #24173
12/23/2013 07:57 PM
12/23/2013 07:57 PM
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Caribbean
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The safely is just a slack line slipped through the top of the ball, it isn't under tension and can be released easy. To release the Wichard under load, just throttle up a bit to take the slack off, walk up and release it, it isn't hard at all.

Backing up to a mooring ball? #24174
12/24/2013 06:18 AM
12/24/2013 06:18 AM
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sail445 Offline
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If it's blowing 15 or 20k the boat will be blown back by the time you get to the bow and then you still have to physically unclip it.
It just seems it would be better with a crew.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail445] #24175
12/24/2013 09:25 AM
12/24/2013 09:25 AM
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Everything is better with a crew, but when singlehanding, that isn't an option. The boat won't be blown back that fast, just over run the ball just a bit. Basically you have the painter plus the bridle, so you can move the boat up about 6+ meters. Gives you plenty of time.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail445] #24176
12/24/2013 10:19 AM
12/24/2013 10:19 AM
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tmsxmsails Offline OP
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Quote
sail445 said:
I cleat a 15' dock line on the bow and motor up to the mooring until I'm almost at a stop, pop it in neutral and run up with the boat hook grab the pennant and slide the dock line through the eye of the pennant.
Works perfect 99% of the time even in high winds.


Regarding this technique; so in the end, you have your line cleated on one end, passed through the eye of the mooring line, and then cleated on the same or another cleat? I was told not to do that as it can create a sawing motion and abrade the mooring loop (both I'm sure but they were worried more about the mooring loop).

This would make for easy drops since you just uncleat one end and drop the loop. Is the sawing risk only if you run from one cleat to another side (making a V/bridle)? Is it better to run back to the same cleat so that you have more of a straight run on your line?

Thanks,

Tom

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24177
12/24/2013 11:10 AM
12/24/2013 11:10 AM
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This is my favorite way to pick up mooring pennant. This technique starts @ about 1:15 DO NOT TRY THIS @ HOME!

My daughter is wearing the yellow headband.... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


I always take life with a grain of salt. Plus a slice of lemon, and a shot of tequila
Backing up to a mooring ball? #24178
12/25/2013 08:17 AM
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Well I'm going to stick with my system, it's fail safe.

Backing up to a mooring ball? #24179
12/25/2013 08:25 AM
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Yes the best way is to run it back to the same cleat.
If you run it to the other cleat you have a chance of it touching the bow
Anchor.
I can't think of a way to hook up to a mooring pennant quickly and with less chafe the the one I just mentioned.
In the USVI the NPS recommends the same system of running your line through and back to the same cleat.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? #24180
12/25/2013 08:41 AM
12/25/2013 08:41 AM
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Great crew member it's no wonder your winning <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/usflag.gif" alt="" />

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail445] #24181
12/27/2013 12:35 PM
12/27/2013 12:35 PM
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Back to the OP question... We've moored by the stern a couple of times in a cat. To do this we first moored by the stbd bow up close, and then using dock lines and some engine work transferred the load from the bow to the midships cleat, and then to the stern on one side, and then we hooked up the other side... ending up with one loop to port and one to starboard. This definitely takes some thinking through the operation in advance.

When moored by the stern the breeze and shade is heavenly in the afternoon, but you get your cockpit completely soaked if it rains. There's no place to hide.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: tmsxmsails] #24182
12/27/2013 04:42 PM
12/27/2013 04:42 PM

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Quote
tmsxmsails said:
Why is there more risk of damaging the prop on a mono than on a cat?
Because most sail drive props are rubber hub, outboard style, props. When they are wrapped, the hub gets sun and the prop fails permanently soon thereafter. Most monohulls have props that are not rubber hubbed and are, this, less likely to suffer expen$ive damage.

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? #24183
12/27/2013 04:43 PM
12/27/2013 04:43 PM

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Quote
Anonymous said:
Quote
tmsxmsails said:
Why is there more risk of damaging the prop on a mono than on a cat?
Because most sail drive props are rubber hub, outboard style, props. When they are wrapped, the hub gets sun and the prop fails permanently soon thereafter. Most monohulls have props that are not rubber hubbed and are, this, less likely to suffer expen$ive damage.


Make that "spun".

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? #24184
12/27/2013 06:38 PM
12/27/2013 06:38 PM
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rhans Offline
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Quote
Anonymous said:
Quote
tmsxmsails said:
Why is there more risk of damaging the prop on a mono than on a cat?
Because most sail drive props are rubber hub, outboard style, props. When they are wrapped, the hub gets sun and the prop fails permanently soon thereafter. Most monohulls have props that are not rubber hubbed and are, this, less likely to suffer expen$ive damage.


Thatís I tidbit of worthless information from our anonymous friend.

Letís see, with a line fouled in the prop we may have damaged the hub on a saildrive propeller and you have a couple hundred pressing a new one in.

OR

On a straight inboard found on most monoís The same line bends the shaft that takes out the cutlass bearing, maybe bends the strut and may have bent the rudder post. A couple thousand at least.

Geeez

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: rhans] #24185
12/27/2013 09:10 PM
12/27/2013 09:10 PM
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Don't you just love these clueless anon posts?

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: sail2wind] #24186
01/04/2014 08:26 PM
01/04/2014 08:26 PM
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Evan, the guy in Capt Rick's video at Anegada had several mooring balls near the stern and thought it was just fine. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]
Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: Richieg1g] #24187
01/04/2014 08:47 PM
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Quote
Richieg1g said:
Evan, the guy in Capt Rick's video at Anegada had several mooring balls near the stern and thought it was just fine. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />


That's true. Hopefully he has since taken up Playing with rubber ducks in the tub <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Backing up to a mooring ball? [Re: rhans] #24188
04/05/2014 12:01 PM
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I have a better idea. I will go with you next trip and be your mooring girl picker upper! Leave the fancy tricks to the locals. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Groovin.gif" alt="" />



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