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Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279639
04/06/2022 05:22 PM
04/06/2022 05:22 PM
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Bay Area
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Pretty rough putting the skipper in the forepeak, but I guess its done although I think that is something one would want to make the skipper has agreed to in advance. When is your trip?

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Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279640
04/06/2022 05:49 PM
04/06/2022 05:49 PM
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rgensler Offline
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Yeah, it's all over their website about where the skipper will sleep. Our first time so no idea how big it is, just following Moorings directions. We're scheduled for Saturday at noon.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279643
04/06/2022 06:15 PM
04/06/2022 06:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 363
S/V Event Horizon
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S/V Event Horizon
It is called the coffin for a reason. Small.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279647
04/06/2022 07:49 PM
04/06/2022 07:49 PM
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Posts: 7,113
GA/NC
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I have stayed in the coffins many times. It’s not great but all you do is sleep there. The newer boats have AC up there which is a big help if you have a rainy night.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279649
04/06/2022 07:53 PM
04/06/2022 07:53 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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Originally Posted by rgensler
I just received a call from Moorings. 5000 not available and asking to swap to a 4500. Said they were only getting 5 boats licensed per day. Said they would offer a refund of $3,750. Boat we had reserved was 0-1 year old. Does this seem like a reasonable offer?


They are offering you about the rack rate difference in price. I would tell them that’s acceptable however you want a 2000 dollar credit toward your next charter. Is this a 4500 or 4500L? What are your dates?

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 04/06/2022 07:56 PM.
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: GeorgeC1] #279652
04/06/2022 09:04 PM
04/06/2022 09:04 PM
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rgensler Offline
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It's a 4500 they are offering. We go out Saturday for 7 nights

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279654
04/06/2022 09:29 PM
04/06/2022 09:29 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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If you were on a zero to 1 year old boat and they are putting you on a older 4500 I would definitely ask for the credit.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279655
04/06/2022 09:45 PM
04/06/2022 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 363
S/V Event Horizon
FRANKIE2 Offline
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Well, at least you get to go sailing. Others have not been quite as fortunate.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: GeorgeC1] #279661
04/07/2022 08:17 AM
04/07/2022 08:17 AM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
If you were on a zero to 1 year old boat and they are putting you on a older 4500 I would definitely ask for the credit.


WHY Credit which locks you into the company for another trip? (Do you really want to repeat with Moorings after this management issue? If answer is "yes" , then credit okay... If ""maybe" or "No", then credit is bad deal).

You should get a refund.... 3750 that they offer is not equal to the difference in older 4500 model and a newer 5000. I would ask for $5000 cash refund.

If you settle for a "Credit" , demand that the credit is transferrable to other individual.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279662
04/07/2022 08:57 AM
04/07/2022 08:57 AM
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rgensler Offline
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Called them back today. Said the boat is a 4600L 0-1 yr old. Couldn't find this on their website and then the rep said it's actually a 4500L. Told me the refund would be $2,813 and no other boats were available. I told him that the rep that called yesterday left in their msg that they were offering a $3,750 refund. Told me I would have to talk to the head of sales who wasn't available or he could just cancel the booking right now. We paid $28,500 base price for the boat originally.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279669
04/07/2022 10:25 AM
04/07/2022 10:25 AM
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Posts: 350
Ottawa, Canada
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$28,500! for how long? I just did a search on the Moorings web site for a 1-3 year old 4500 and was quoted app. 15k for 7 nights. admittedly did not include captain but that should run 300-400/day?

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279679
04/07/2022 03:21 PM
04/07/2022 03:21 PM
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rgensler Offline
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That's just the price for the boat. Skipper is additional. It's a 7 night trip.
I'm on hold right now. No one ever called me back.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279681
04/07/2022 04:27 PM
04/07/2022 04:27 PM
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After being hung up on 3 times and an hour on hold finally got ahold of the rep who called yesterday. Tried to again say the refund would be $2,813. I let her know that yesterday she left a message saying $3,750 was the refund. She agreed to that but wouldn't give any additional refund. Said that only the VP in the UK could authorize that and it was 9pm there. She said she would try him tomorrow and call us back. Tried to give a future credit of 15% instead of the refund. I told her this might be our first and last Moorings trip based on our experience so far and would only take a refund.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279683
04/07/2022 05:00 PM
04/07/2022 05:00 PM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Originally Posted by rgensler
We paid $28,500 base price for the boat originally.


Noncrewed?

For that, you could get 2 newer boats (2022) in the 45-46 ft range from several boutique companies(30-40 boat fleet size) which are equipped nicer and maintained much better.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279695
04/07/2022 08:20 PM
04/07/2022 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,347
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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maybe a new thread for this??

We paid $28,500 base price for the boat originally.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279699
04/07/2022 10:09 PM
04/07/2022 10:09 PM
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Posts: 1,691
Memphis, BVI, CT
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Will they give you a 100% refund since they can't provide what you contracted for? I'd call around and see if anyone else happens to have a boat available, maybe an independent crewed charter.

It doesn't sound like you're being treated fairly. Their need to conserve cash shouldn't be at your expense.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: RatmansWife] #279700
04/07/2022 10:49 PM
04/07/2022 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RatmansWife
Will they give you a 100% refund since they can't provide what you contracted for? I'd call around and see if anyone else happens to have a boat available, maybe an independent crewed charter.

It doesn't sound like you're being treated fairly. Their need to conserve cash shouldn't be at your expense.


I believe $28 K likely get a fully crewed cat in 45-50 ft range..... possibly including gratuity (But I haven't checked pricing recently)


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279705
04/08/2022 07:17 AM
04/08/2022 07:17 AM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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I am trying to figure the price out myself. A brand new boat which is what he booked is generally about 21k this time of year. Generally there are discounts and 15% is the norm so 18k. That might not apply this spring since bookings are beyond good. Call it 20k. Add 360 in cruising taxes, 50 for a park permit, 650 for insurance. Call it 21 to 22 without discounts. Add in s sleepaboard and maybe 24.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279714
04/08/2022 09:38 AM
04/08/2022 09:38 AM
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Ottawa, Canada
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Originally Posted by rgensler
That's just the price for the boat. Skipper is additional. It's a 7 night trip.
I'm on hold right now. No one ever called me back.



I agree with some of the other suggestions here - Maybe go through a broker Like Virgin Island Sailing and ask them if there are any crewed charters for your dates,or at least boats with a captain. Take the money and run if you an secure something else for your dates. There must be a significant price premium for a 50' compared to a 45' and moorings doesn't seem to be crediting you back that premium in good faith. Disappointing to say the least. Good luck - let us know how it goes!

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279717
04/08/2022 10:14 AM
04/08/2022 10:14 AM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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I think some of you have not priced fully crewed 50 foot cats this time of year. I tried to help someone get a trip booked and the numbers were astounding unless it was a very dodgy boat.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279722
04/08/2022 10:56 AM
04/08/2022 10:56 AM
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rgensler Offline
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Thanks for everyone that commented.

Finalized things with Moorings. They originally offered $3750, then $2800, then $3750+15% off future trip. I asked for $5500 cash refund no future credit. They came back with Total cash refund of $7400. Told me they now have plenty of boats now just not the one we paid for.

For those that commented about the price. It was over $30k with the skipper. This is spring break week and with kids in school we don't have a choice when to travel. From my recollection, there weren't many choices of boats when I booked in February.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: GeorgeC1] #279723
04/08/2022 11:01 AM
04/08/2022 11:01 AM
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MIDiver Offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
I think some of you have not priced fully crewed 50 foot cats this time of year. I tried to help someone get a trip booked and the numbers were astounding unless it was a very dodgy boat.


Wow. With charter rates escalating I am increasingly glad that we took a leap of faith last year and purchased. Then again we don’t need a crewed boat, but still…..

Last edited by MIDiver; 04/08/2022 11:24 AM.
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: MIDiver] #279742
04/08/2022 01:06 PM
04/08/2022 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 350
Ottawa, Canada
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Originally Posted by MIDiver
Originally Posted by GeorgeC1
I think some of you have not priced fully crewed 50 foot cats this time of year. I tried to help someone get a trip booked and the numbers were astounding unless it was a very dodgy boat.


Wow. With charter rates escalating I am increasingly glad that we took a leap of faith last year and purchased. Then again we don’t need a crewed boat, but still…..


Fair point Rgensler - depends on dates and availability. Glade you were able to get the issue resolved to your satisfaction! hope you and your family have a great trip!

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279753
04/08/2022 05:13 PM
04/08/2022 05:13 PM
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Posts: 17,079
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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I was a guest on KSVY today and talked about this situation on the air. This was a rat$uck that no one needed brought on at the worst time possible....that punished tourists who had invested $$$ to come to the BVI's. I have seen some horrific Gov moves over many decaded as a journalist..but this takes the (Johnny ) cake..

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: rgensler] #279758
04/08/2022 09:25 PM
04/08/2022 09:25 PM
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Georgia & South Carolina
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Originally Posted by rgensler
Thanks for everyone that commented.

Finalized things with Moorings.


Glad you are able to get things worked out. You will have a great time.


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (2022 Lagoon 46)
www.BareBoatBVI.com

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279955
04/11/2022 03:24 PM
04/11/2022 03:24 PM
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Virgin Islands
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I see a lot of comments laying blame on the BVI government for ruining people's vacations. Please realize that the Moorings definitely should receive at least 1/2 of the blame if not more. Skirting of safety requirements has been going on in the BVI for more than a decade (since the time that the BVI government decided that all charter boats should follow the MCA small commercial vessel code.)

Specifically, safety gear is purchased for one vessel, inspectors board, look around and the vessel passes inspection. The following day, all the safety gear from vessel number #1 is taken from vessel #1 and placed on vessel #2. Vessel #2 then passes inspection, but vessel #2 has no safety gear when you show up for your charter.

They choose on a regular basis to put your safety in jeopardy to save a few bucks, then blame the BVI government for their unsafe business practices.

And this is not just a BVI issue. I just chartered with the Moorings in the Exumas and the boat was presented to me with 2 type 1 PFD's for 6 people. They told us that they didn't have any more... It should be embarrassing for them, but it's not. When I asked why the didn't have life jackets, they just stared blankly. Luckily I was able to borrow 4 from a friend who is cruising the Bahamas.

I hope you all are able to get on a boat when you show up for your charter. I hope you get the boat you reserved. I hope it has safety gear and is in good working order.

Please know if it isn't, the Moorings chose to do this to you. And they will give you the old bait and switch when you are standing on the dock wondering what happened to your dream vacation.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279959
04/11/2022 03:41 PM
04/11/2022 03:41 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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I have been associated with the Moorings for a long time as a owner. I am sorry that your experience was poor in the Bahamas. I have probably done over 100 chaters or owners weeks with them. I have never not had life preservers or any other normal safety gear. The issues the Moorings had were specific to a few things. They certainly need to take blame but in there defense they had certified more boats under the new rules at the deadline than almost all the other charter companies combined. The specific issues they had were propane detectors on older boats and registration documentation on the boats. Owners are responsible for renewing yearly registrations and forwarding those documents to the Moorings each year. A lot of owners did not bother forwarding the registrations and the Moorings was lax in pushing those owners to supply the documents. Without those the boats could not be registered. The last big batch of propane detectors sat in BVI customs for a extended period of time before being released.
The process of presenting the documents to the BVI government and getting a boat inspection scheduled was very slow. Lots of fault to spread around and the Moorings does not deserve absolution however certifying 400 boats on what is basically a hand delivered 1 boat at a time process verses 30 boats is quite a different level of complication.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279961
04/11/2022 04:02 PM
04/11/2022 04:02 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 17,079
Tortola/ Sonoma, California
Manpot Offline
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I am not a conspiracy theory guy..but..the propane detectors sat in customs "for an extended period of time" and then the boats got seized because they didnt have the propane detectors that the BVI Gov was tying up in customs?? Am I the only one that smells a rather large rodent that's feasting on the golden goose?

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279975
04/11/2022 06:55 PM
04/11/2022 06:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 848
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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IMO nobody knows enough about the situation to pass judgement, doesn't seem to keep people from speculating and blaming who they would like to see blamed.


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279979
04/11/2022 08:47 PM
04/11/2022 08:47 PM
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Chesapeake Bay, USA
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Nibj Offline
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We have chartered from Moorings at least 5 times (4 in BVI, 1 in Antigua) and never been short of life preservers. On the last charter two weeks ago, all the life preservers were brand new and they also supplied several blow up flotation jackets for snorkeling.

We bring our own inflatable PFDs because they are more comfortable for extended use. Our experience is that American Airlines is cool about this.

Last edited by Nibj; 04/11/2022 08:48 PM.
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #279980
04/11/2022 09:33 PM
04/11/2022 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,113
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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Inflatable PFD’s are allowed as carry on luggage however it’s best to go to the TSA sight and print out the rules as many TSA agents don’t understand their own regulations.

You may bring a life vest with up to two CO2 cartridges inside, plus two spare cartridges in your carry-on or checked bag.
Even if an item is generally permitted, it may be subject to additional screening or not allowed through the checkpoint if it triggers an alarm during the screening process, appears to have been tampered with, or poses other security concerns. The final decision rests with TSA on whether to allow any items on the plane.
You may not transport CO2 cartridges without the associated lifejacket.

Last edited by GeorgeC1; 04/11/2022 09:35 PM.
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280038
04/12/2022 02:46 PM
04/12/2022 02:46 PM
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Posts: 1,398
Washington DC
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bailau Offline
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Have chartered with Moorings countless times in BVI and never had any issue with audit of safety equipment which I need to do as licensed captain...

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280049
04/12/2022 04:27 PM
04/12/2022 04:27 PM
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Bay Area
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Husker Offline
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Echo posts regarding safety equipment on Moorings boats. Been chartering regularly since 2008 and never had issues with missing safety equipment.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280060
04/12/2022 07:58 PM
04/12/2022 07:58 PM
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Posts: 391
Hobie Sound
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I think some are missing the noise about "safety equipment"? Part of the process just like any hull in commercial use in US waters. First the boats registration, documentation, and paperwork must all be in order and submitted. Only then can a visit be scheduled with USCG be scheduled for an on boat inspection. The BVI is simply catching up to where Florida and rest of the US has been for many decades. Not an expert on the full set of BVI safety inspection rules. But, I have only been on a few BVI charter boats where the PFD's where actually labeled with the boat name. Many of the boats are equipped with PFD's for recreational use and not the type most authorities require for commercial open water operation. Then where are the PFD's stored. Stuffed down below out of the way is usually a fail. But the real issue is many of the large fleets did not or could not get their paperwork and fees in order to even schedule the onboard safety inspection. Yep, there is some local job creation in there. Some protectionist regulation to keep some of the none BVI boats away. But, America has enforced those type of rules with no forgiveness since before most of us were born.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280107
04/13/2022 09:58 AM
04/13/2022 09:58 AM
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PA-Ron. - This is incorrect and misleading.

The USCG inspection requirement only applies to Passenger Vessels over 100 GRT carrying more than 12 passengers, and Small Passenger Vessels less than 100 GRT carrying more than 6 passengers.

There is NO USCG inspection required for vessels to operate as a Charter Vessel (no crew, with up to 12 passengers) in the USVI, Florida or elsewhere in the US.

The Charter Vessel needs a USCG Certificate of Documentation, which just establishes that vessel is 100% owned by a US citizen or a corporation/LLC that has majority US ownership. The USCG has a basic list of safety equipment that must be onboard depending on boat size, but this list of safety equipment also applies to ALL recreational vessels operating in US waters. Of course the USCG can choose to board and inspect any vessel for compliance at any time.

The USCG safety equipment requirements for Charter Vessels & Recreational vessels do not include the items that have been recently mandated by the BVI government, such as propane detectors or high water bilge alarms.

I would be interested to see the full list of BVI safety requirements for charter vessels. I'm presuming they reference or mirror the USCG safety requirements. At a minimum I would expect any BVI charter company, such as Moorings/Sunsail, that allows its vessels to visit USVI (at least in pre-Covid days) would confirm they meet minimum USCG requirements in case of an inspection.

I can say that CYOA Yacht Charters significantly exceeded the USCG safety requirements when they managed my boat. We had 15 readily accessible Type 1 jacket-style offshore PFD (not flimsy Type 2 PFD best used on a small lake), a Type IV throwable horseshoe float as well as a separate offshore MOB pole, 5 fire extinguishers (one in every living compartment). They also met the other USCG requirements which I didn't always find on my 30 some pre-2015 BVI charters (such as unexpired flares, functioning nav lights, functioning air horn or whistle, book of International Navigation Rules, pollution placards).




Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280119
04/13/2022 11:11 AM
04/13/2022 11:11 AM
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Bay Area
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Slightly off topic, but what is the extent of USCG authority in BVI waters? I've always been curious about this. I know they handle distress calls throughout VI waters from their Puerto Rico base, but maybe its just comms coordinating local response. I don't recall ever seeing a USCG vessel in BVI waters. Do they patrol all the VIs? Can they stop and inspect vessels in the BVI?

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280124
04/13/2022 11:22 AM
04/13/2022 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,113
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GeorgeC1  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,113
GA/NC
They have no authority in the BVI.

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: Husker] #280126
04/13/2022 11:29 AM
04/13/2022 11:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht Offline
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JasonHelmbrecht  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
Originally Posted by Husker
Slightly off topic, but what is the extent of USCG authority in BVI waters? I've always been curious about this. I know they handle distress calls throughout VI waters from their Puerto Rico base, but maybe its just comms coordinating local response. I don't recall ever seeing a USCG vessel in BVI waters. Do they patrol all the VIs? Can they stop and inspect vessels in the BVI?

Here is the USCG Cutter Joseph Doyle (WPC 1133) anchored in Cane Garden Bay for the night 9 April 2021.

Attached Files USCG Cutter Joseph Doyle.jpg
Last edited by JasonHelmbrecht; 04/13/2022 11:30 AM.

JasonHelmbrecht
Coconut Breeze Villas
Cane Garden Bay
reservations@coconutbreezevillas.com
www.coconutbreezevillas.com
Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: JasonHelmbrecht] #280136
04/13/2022 01:22 PM
04/13/2022 01:22 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 633
BaardJ Offline
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BaardJ  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 633
The USCG and BVI do cooperate on drug interdiction (and I think human smuggling). USCG has over 2 dozen counterdrug bilateral agreements and operational procedures with partner nations including the UK and many Latin American, South American and Caribbean countries. Quoting from a USCG annual report "These agreements enable the Coast Guard to: board suspect vessels, facilitate interdictions in underpatrolled territorial waters of partner nations, deter illicit activity in the littoral regions, and coordinate interdiction and apprehension operations in the Western Hemisphere Transit Zone."

This story describes a USG cutter seizing 1700 kg of cocaine tossed off a go-fast boat near Anegada.
https://www.bvibeacon.com/tag/drug-bust/

This story describes USCG contacting BVI police for permission to follow a suspected drug smuggler from US to BVI waters. https://www.284media.com/local/2021...s-on-the-run-says-commissioner-matthews/

Re: The Moorings Boats Seized [Re: SacoFrank] #280215
04/14/2022 09:53 AM
04/14/2022 09:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 545
Bay Area
H
Husker Offline
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Husker  Offline
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H
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 545
Bay Area
Thanks Jason and BaardJ! Gotta love TTOL.

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