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Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: boucharda] #304912
08/06/2023 02:33 PM
08/06/2023 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 246
Toronto, Canada
CanuckTravlr Offline
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CanuckTravlr  Offline
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Posts: 246
Toronto, Canada
@boucharda The article clearly says that the ATM was at the RBC in Philipsburg. If you look at the picture at the top of the article, you can actually see the two ATM machines, inside separate areas, on either side of the main doors. In February, I used the one on the left!

I agree with you about not using isolated ATMs, or at night, especially in a strange area. I used that particular ATM at mid-day, with lots of people around. Another rule for me when travelling is to only use an ATM at a major bank, not a freestanding, third-party ATM. And I too, have a daily cash withdrawal limit of well under $1,000 per day, so that also limits any potential damage. So far, so good, and I have used my debit card throughout Canada, the USA, Europe, and the Caribbean for decades. But everyone has to do what makes them the most comfortable.

@Southshore Yes, I was referring to the foreign exchange rate only. I have no fees with my bank. The only real fee I was referring to was the $6 USD withdrawal fee by RBC in Philipsburg, since I'm not technically a client there. And yes, I usually use one of the ATMs that will dispense USD here at home. The rate is good and its more convenient than ordering foreign cash, or standing in line to see a teller. And I am also a senior, plus my banking package also entitles me to a "preferred" exchange rate when accessing foreign cash, whether, USD or Euros, etc. So I agree with all your comments.

Last edited by CanuckTravlr; 08/06/2023 02:38 PM.
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Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: GaKaye] #304922
08/06/2023 09:46 PM
08/06/2023 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 168
Allentown, Pa
B
bobbarb Offline
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bobbarb  Offline
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B
Joined: Jan 2012
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Allentown, Pa
While I am not a banker but a retired CPA and never had or will ever get a debit card even though Wells Fargo keeps offering. I have a number of credit cards 8 or 9 and use the ones that give the best rewards. I only pay for my United card as it gives free luggage and lounge pass and collision insurance which more than covers the cost of the card. I have 4 cards that had to be cancelled because of fraudulent activity and never had any cost or problems. I am sure I would not have been as fortunate with a debit card. Also even at home I always use a credit card whenever possible even for small purchases which my wife thinks is crazy.

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: bobbarb] #304923
08/06/2023 10:23 PM
08/06/2023 10:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,694
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
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SXMScubaman  Online Content
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Posts: 18,694
Auburn, WA
"Also even at home I always use a credit card whenever possible even for small purchases which my wife thinks is crazy."
Those rewards and miles add up.👍

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: SXMScubaman] #304926
08/07/2023 09:13 AM
08/07/2023 09:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
As a merchant, I find it annoying when someone tries to use a credit card for something like $5, as it does cost US when you use a credit card, versus paying cash.


Carol Hill
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Carol_Hill] #304930
08/07/2023 09:41 AM
08/07/2023 09:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 474
Maryland
Jim_Laraine Offline
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Jim_Laraine  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 474
Maryland
Hope this is not too far off topic but, has anyone noticed SXM businesses adding a surcharge on credit card sales? In NY and the midatlantic we've found that many merchants are adding on about 3% for the use of credit cards to cover their processing costs. I understand why merchants do that, but it pretty well wipes out the benfit of using the card. Also, in almost all cases, the server or cashier did not alert us to the charge.

On a related topic, for SXM travel, we will be using the United Explorer Visa card which does not charge a foreign exchange fee.

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: SXMScubaman] #304931
08/07/2023 09:45 AM
08/07/2023 09:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 467
B
bizzottom Offline
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Posts: 467
ditto SXM, use CC for every possibility, it all adds up in the end

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Jim_Laraine] #304933
08/07/2023 09:51 AM
08/07/2023 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Central Florida!
I have not personally seen any merchants in SXM adding a fee for credit card processing. Florida law prevents merchants from charging a credit card fee. Possibly SXM laws do also.


Carol Hill
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Carol_Hill] #304934
08/07/2023 10:07 AM
08/07/2023 10:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 522
SW Florida
Jerry_R Offline
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Jerry_R  Offline
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Posts: 522
SW Florida
I thought so too. Please view this. I am not happy with what I just found out. This is from the Office of the Florida Atty. General, Ashley Moody.

I just had a rather expensive car repair & the shop (in Punta Gorda, FL) wanted a 4% fee to use my card. I paid with a check. No fee.

https://www.myfloridalegal.com/cons...charges#are-credit-card-surcharges-legal

Last edited by Jerry_R; 08/07/2023 10:17 AM.
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Jim_Laraine] #304935
08/07/2023 10:07 AM
08/07/2023 10:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,512
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Posts: 17,512
Ohio
I don't recall seeing it on SXM but unless there is a law against it, I would expect to see it happening.

Both where we live (OH) and in US travels, I have seen a 2% to 4% fee added when using a CC. I believe it is usually noted on the menu or at the register. Some restaurants will show the total WITH the fee and then offer something like a 3% discount if paying in cash.


J.D.
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Jerry_R] #304936
08/07/2023 10:24 AM
08/07/2023 10:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Jerry--OK, I didn't remember that.


Carol Hill
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Jim_Laraine] #304941
08/07/2023 10:56 AM
08/07/2023 10:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,694
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
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SXMScubaman  Online Content
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Posts: 18,694
Auburn, WA
Yes. Aqua Mania adds a credit card fee to a CC charge for their excursions. I have also encountered an added CC fee at other places in SXM but can't remember where. I do recall that when we paid for our Eagle excursion there was an extra fee for a CC so we paid cash.

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: SXMScubaman] #304944
08/07/2023 11:53 AM
08/07/2023 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Huh. Well, I guess I will have to look at charge slips on SXM more closely from now on.


Carol Hill
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Carol_Hill] #304946
08/07/2023 12:31 PM
08/07/2023 12:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,518
Grenada
Zanshin Offline
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Zanshin  Offline
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Posts: 2,518
Grenada
The credit card surcharge (or a cash discount) is not allowed in the EU or on the French side.


[Linked Image]
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Carol_Hill] #304947
08/07/2023 12:41 PM
08/07/2023 12:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
kim Offline
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kim  Offline
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Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
Carol - in Florida can you offer a fee, and then a 3% discount if paying cash or check? That’s how we get around it in CT. Customers can mail me a check, pay online via ACH and get a discount or with CC for the full charge.

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: Carol_Hill] #304948
08/07/2023 12:42 PM
08/07/2023 12:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 522
SW Florida
Jerry_R Offline
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Jerry_R  Offline
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Posts: 522
SW Florida
I used to charge bigger things like this regularly. Never a card fee. This one was about $1400. New front struts on my minivan. I knew that there was legislation that prevented a CC usage charge. Fortunately they told me up front so I brought my checkbook. Funny we didn't hear about this on the news here in FL.

Last edited by Jerry_R; 08/07/2023 12:44 PM.
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: kim] #304949
08/07/2023 01:01 PM
08/07/2023 01:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
kim--It could be. I just eat the charge, even though it is annoying.


Carol Hill
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: CanuckTravlr] #304950
08/07/2023 01:07 PM
08/07/2023 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,142
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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islandgem  Offline
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
As of April 2021 the Royal Bank of Canada sold their Caribbean RBC banks to the National Bank so things are different now.




Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: ruralcarrier] #304951
08/07/2023 01:18 PM
08/07/2023 01:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,878
Portland, OR
jazzgal Offline
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jazzgal  Offline
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Posts: 4,878
Portland, OR
Horny Toad charges extra for using a credit card. I have taken to paying them via Venmo to avoid the surcharge.


[Linked Image]
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: SXMScubaman] #304953
08/07/2023 02:58 PM
08/07/2023 02:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,512
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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ruralcarrier  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,512
Ohio
Correct. When we used to book Regatta excursions, there was always a small fee for using a credit card. At least on the last few we booked there was a fee.


J.D.
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: islandgem] #304955
08/07/2023 03:14 PM
08/07/2023 03:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,634
United States of America
bdeeley Offline
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bdeeley  Offline
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Posts: 1,634
United States of America
No they did not, they sold what they called their Eastern Caribbean banks and kept others.

They sold; 11 branches in Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Montserrat, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, and St. Vincent and the Grenadines.


The following is what remained after the sale above. RBC’s Caribbean presence comprises 3,000 employees and 41 branches and offices. Locations include Aruba, The Bahamas, Barbados, Bonaire, Cayman Islands, Curaçao, Saba, Sint Maarten, Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands.


Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: islandgem] #304956
08/07/2023 03:26 PM
08/07/2023 03:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
kim Offline
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kim  Offline
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Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
Originally Posted by islandgem
As of April 2021 the Royal Bank of Canada sold their Caribbean RBC banks to the National Bank so things are different now.

I’m confused. If you read this press release, it sounds like RBC still owns some banks - including Sint Maarten.

https://www.investmentexecutive.com...es-sale-of-eastern-caribbean-operations/

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: kim] #304958
08/07/2023 05:10 PM
08/07/2023 05:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,634
United States of America
bdeeley Offline
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bdeeley  Offline
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Posts: 1,634
United States of America
They do. See my prior post.


Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: bdeeley] #304959
08/07/2023 06:43 PM
08/07/2023 06:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
kim Offline
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kim  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,679
Newtown, CT
I thought so - I have a checking account, mortgage and CD with them since 6/2017 (my timing could have been better!!) and knew they were still affiliated. But there is no connection when it comes to banking with them in the US or Canada. They can’t see the accounts. Only in Sxm. Just wish they didn’t close the Simpson Bay branch!!!

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: kim] #304971
08/08/2023 12:52 PM
08/08/2023 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 246
Toronto, Canada
CanuckTravlr Offline
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CanuckTravlr  Offline
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Posts: 246
Toronto, Canada
I agree with you, KIm. I was very disappointed when they closed the Simpson Bay branch, since I usually stay on Simpson Bay Beach, so it was easy to get there. Initially, they kept the ATMs operating at the Simpson Bay Branch location and the Cole Bay Carrefour, but even those now are closed. I don't have any accounts on SXM itself, since I'm normally only down once a year.

Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: CanuckTravlr] #305086
08/14/2023 11:03 AM
08/14/2023 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,634
United States of America
bdeeley Offline
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bdeeley  Offline
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Posts: 1,634
United States of America
This post is meant to correct a lot of incorrect and misinformation shared in prior posts.




Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr
Certainly that's your choice, but I've been travelling internationally for over half a century with a debit card without any issues. Credit cards can also be hacked and cash can be stolen or taken by armed robbery, but both those likelihoods are just as rare as debit card skimming. Different strokes for different folks.


ATM/ABM cards did not get introduced in Canada until 1969 and it wasn’t until the late 70’s that many Canadian banks were using them for cash withdrawals. Debit Cards did not come into use in Canada until 1988, just a short 35 years ago and far less than the over half a century mentioned.




Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr
Ok, that helps explain it Carol. I am a retired financial professional and do have some experience in dealing with US banks at a non-personal level, as well as personal. I do know that the US banking industry is very fractured, since it is state regulated, unlike Canada and most European countries where is is regulated at the national level.


America enjoys a robust banking system where banks are either Federally Chartered or State Chartered. Over 20% of banks operating in the US are Federally Chartered. Over 94% of all banks operating in the USA are regulated, in some way, by the Federal Government. This regulation takes place by the OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency), the Federal Reserve or by the FDIC. Many banks are regulated by multiple federal organizations. Many State Chartered banks are members of the Federal Reserve.



Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr

In my experience the US tends to be behind the curve, compared to its European and Canadian counterparts. We have required PINs for years, so that adds an additonal level of security that has only recently become more common in the US. Here in Canada, and in Europe as well, except at small merchants or for very small transactions, cash is rare, almost everything is either debit or CC. And yes, our regulations do provide more indemnification, so that obviously helps. Both CCs and debit cards are virtually the same in terms of protections.


The US has required PINs for years, first with the use of ATM cards and then with the advent of the DEBIT cards, when used in “debit mode”. The US adoption of the PIN with these cards predates the use by Canadians for many years.

And, no, your regulations do not provide more indemnification. For instance, both the US and Canada indemnify credit card users for all fraudulent amounts in excess of $50. Exactly the same, except the US protection was enacted in 1974 with the FCBA (Fair Credit Billing Act (Federal protection)) and in Canada that protection was not written into Canadian law until 1991 with the Canadian Bank Act (PART XII.2), 17 years later than the US.

On the Debit side the US laws are just as protective for the citizens, and again, predate Canadian protections for their citizens. Americans have enjoyed protections for Debit Card use since 1978, when the US Government enacted the EFTA (Electronic Funds Transfer Act). If you want to talk about Chip and Pin than yes, Europe and Canada enacted those measure earlier then the US, but for purchasing in the US, we mostly use Chip and Signature with our Debit Cards and Chip and Pin for ATM. Most US and Canadian credit and debit card transactions are now protected by the Zero Liability Policy provided by the Card Issuers, and the coverage is the same. Obviously, your knowledge of American Banking, Credit and Monetary policy is quite mis-informed.

And for all the emphasis you want to put on adoption of Chip and Pin, it provides no protection for CNP(Card Not Present) transactions. CNP transactions account for more than 1/3 of all debit card transactions and account for 80% of all debit card fraud.


Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr
Probably, but I have no actual experience with that. In fact, I can't remember the last time I actually wrote a physical cheque. Most payments like that here in Canada are done by either CC or online by electronic transfer (e-transfer). I don't know if the latter even exists in the US.
.

“e-transfer” is a branded product of the Canadian “Interac” system. Interac was created in 1994.

**Interac e-Transfers are only available in Canada for individuals who have Interac-partnered bank accounts (most of them). So, no you cannot use Interac e-Transfer in the U.S. That being said, Interac does have a collaboration with Mastercard and Western Union to allow Canadians to send International Transfers. (Forbes Magazine, 04/2023).


Electronic Funds Transfer, was created in the US in 1871. It was first handled by Western Union. EFT has a long history in the US, dating back more than 150 years. I think we have made additional enhancements in the ensuing years.



Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr
I'm not young, either, almost to the 3/4 century mark, but in Canada at least, cheques are now pretty rare. The banking systems, while similar, are quite different to the US, IME, and our online and clearing processes are also much faster and more integrated, even between different banks. I am surprised that RBC in Sint Maarten is no longer accepting cheques, certainly RBC in Canada still does! Anyway, this has gone a bit off topic, so I will let it rest there.


Again, you have limited to no knowledge of US Banking and consumer credit policy. Usually, it takes about two business days for a check to clear in the US. That can vary from check to check, though. There are a few factors that might cause a check to clear faster than two days. Banks are generally required by law to make the first $225 of a check deposit available by the next business day. For example, if the check is deposited on a weekend, it’s considered to be deposited on Monday, so the first $225 of the check will be available on Tuesday. Canada has the same average clearance time but only quarantees the depositor the first $100 being available the next business day. Again, Americans enjoy these protections by Federal Law; The Expedited Funds Availability Act, Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act, and many more.



Originally Posted by islandgem
The RBC banks on the island are not affiliated with the Royal Bank of Canada . RBC there stands for Royal Bank of Caribbean and are very different banks. I am a Royal Bank customer in Canada too and I was informed of this from my bank.


This was addressed earlier and is totally incorrect.



Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr

@bdeeley is correct. And IME most RBC employees are unfamiliar and poorly informed concerning the foreign operations of the parent bank. They just can't see them on their branch network, so assume they are not the same. RBC US and RBC Financial Caribbean are separate incorporated banks, different from the domestic operatoins in Canada, for legal and regulatory reasons. They do not share branch operations, so yes, they are not the "same" bank, but they do work with clients of other RBC banks on a preferred basis.

When I pull money out of an RBC ATM in Sint Maarten, I am charged a witthdrawal fee, unlike here at home. But ulitmately, as @bdeeley says, they are all subsidiares of the parent bank. I was able to park in the parking lot at the branch in Philipsburg, reserved for RBC customers, by simply showing them my domestic RBC Client Card, so there is some recognition.


RBC Bank in the Caribbean is wholly owned and operated by RBC Royal Bank. Yes, they have to be organized and operated by the laws governing their location, but they are 100% owned and controlled by RBC Royal Bank of Canada. There are links to the Caribbean banks right on RBC’s website and you can login and manage your accounts right from the RBC website. Lack of knowledge on someone’s part doesn’t make it true or accurate. Corporate Leadership still resides with the Parent Bank in Canada.



Originally Posted by CanuckTravlr
@boucharda The article clearly says that the ATM was at the RBC in Philipsburg. If you look at the picture at the top of the article, you can actually see the two ATM machines, inside separate areas, on either side of the main doors. In February, I used the one on the left!


NO, the article does not say, in any way, that the ATM was at the RBC branch location in Philipsburg. The article states that the skimming happened at an ATM machine but did not give its location. RBC has branded ATMs at other locations on the island or it could have been an independent ATM. All the article makes clear is that RBC clients were affected.

The Daily Herald often uses that picture of RBC as a stock photo for any articles about RBC. If you infer that it was at the RBC branch because of the word PHILIPSBURG at the top of the article than again you would be wrong. That would be the “Dateline” of the article and it is usually at the beginning of the article and tells you where the article was written or filed. Usually the date is omitted and the location is in all capitals.




*** For those that want to see and get access to RBC Caribbean from the main RBC website, just go to the home page, and click on the link “about RBC” near the top center. Next click on “Caribbean” which will now show up right next to the left of “about RBC”. Now scroll down the page just a little and then on your right side you will be able to choose the location you want and then click the “GO” button. Now you will be able to see “Digital Banking” in the top left with a “Login” button. At this point you should be able to login and do your digital banking. Screen captures below.



RBC Subsidiaries

Attached Files Screen Shot 2023-08-08 at 10.25.29 AM.pngScreen Shot 2023-08-08 at 10.26.30 AM.pngScreen Shot 2023-08-08 at 10.27.03 AM.pngScreen Shot 2023-08-08 at 10.28.43 AM.pngScreen Shot 2023-08-08 at 10.29.06 AM.png

Be Happy! Simply because you deserve to be. 😁
Re: Another ATM skimming incident [Re: bdeeley] #305087
08/14/2023 11:18 AM
08/14/2023 11:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,673
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline OP
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Carol_Hill  Offline OP
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OK, I have no idea how this post got to where it is and what is 'information' and what is 'misinformation'.

However, the original subject was about ATM skimming, so will end this one here.


Carol Hill
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