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Timeshare decision #31167
12/31/2014 01:41 PM
12/31/2014 01:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
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TheViking Offline OP
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have been reading through many threads on TTOL and TUG in the hopes of narrowing down my search and making a decision (Yay or Nay) regarding purchasing a timeshare in Sint Marteen.
Here is what I know:

1) All timeshares are a risk and timeshares on St Marteen are NOT deeded properties but RTUs
2)Little or no protections for US buyers should a developer owner of a resort take the money and run (lots of hx with Caranvasia (sp) Pelican and…..who else?) or mismanage
3)Many owners of TS on this island have been coming 10-20 plus years and have made good use of their purchase (Flamingo, Simpson Bay, Royal Ilander, Divi,LaVista, Towers at Mullet Bay etc)
4) People who LOVE ST Marteen are concerned about the escalating crime, decreased safety on the island (I was there recently and did not have a problem took precautions, drove to casinos at night alone).

Here is what I don't know/understand need more info on:

5) Where can I find a true indication of the resale market online (not Tug or red week their listing prices are not indicative of the market IMHO)!
6)Is it better to buy a fixed vs floating week? (I would like to go every year or EOYin shoulder season Nov-mid Dec)?
7) How do these resorts trade with II/RCI compared to the MFs?
8) How do you get historical data on MF assessments at any given resort?(can only get for Diamond RESORTS on tug AFAIK)
9)Any information on Dawn Beach CLub? (seems there was some controversy mentioned in a thread "we all know what happened at Dawn Beach"…no I don't can someone enlighten me?
10) ROYAL RESORTS owns and manages SBR and Mexico properties does anyone have info on the reputation of this company?
11) If a 2bd lock off is available at any St Marteen resorts can they be split to 2 weeks for same MF?

OK guys thank you in advance and…..GO

Respectfully,

V[color:"purple"]<sup></sup>[/color] I TRIED TO START AN NEW THREAD BUT IT WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO SO I JUST COPIED AND PASTED I

Last edited by ruralcarrier; 12/31/2014 04:34 PM.
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Re: Today is the day! [Re: TheViking] #31168
12/31/2014 03:00 PM
12/31/2014 03:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 671
Ottawa Canada
candu Offline
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Maybe a new thread would be better than this off topic post if you want answers.

Re: Today is the day! [Re: candu] #31169
12/31/2014 03:39 PM
12/31/2014 03:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
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TheViking Offline OP
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PLEASE read the bottom of the POST I TRIED AND WAS UNSUCCESSFUL posting a new thread. I am new to the FORUM

Re: Today is the day! [Re: TheViking] #31170
12/31/2014 03:42 PM
12/31/2014 03:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,822
Peaceful Eastern North Carolin...
GaKaye Offline
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Peaceful Eastern North Carolin...
Viking, go to the index page for St. Maarten - St. Martin, and near the top on the right-hand side, you'll see the word "post". Click on that, and you'll get to the place to start a new thread.


[Linked Image]
An Open Note to TheViking #31171
12/31/2014 03:51 PM
12/31/2014 03:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,507
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Not GaKaye but I will attempt to answer a few of your questions as best I can.

1. I agree that all time shares on St. Maarten are a risk and are not, to the best of my knowledge, deeded properties but are RTU. You should probably not spend anymore than you are actually willing to lose if things go bust because they can and do..

2. Thanks to all the various St. Maarten governments as far back as I can remember, there are absolutely no protections for any buyers regarding mismanagement or ultimate protection of purchasers with regard to the timeshare property purchase agreements.

3. You are correct, many timeshare owners are long time island visitors. We've been coming to SXM annually for 41 years and we have definitely made very good use of our timeshare weeks. But we visited for about fifteen years before we bit the bullet and bought at a property in an area we already knew we loved.

4. Yes, even those of us who love the island and our timeshares do not visit with blinders or rose colored glasses. We know there are issues with crime and safety there, but we also admit there are also problems here at home where we live and exist every day.

5. I don't think there is any accurate source of timeshare resale pricing. Basically, many unit owners who want out for whatever their reason are finding themselves giving back their units to the management company or in some cases, to the original developers and are happy to walk away, and some are giving them away to anyone who will take them off their hands.

The only caveat to that might be those who have very desirable units (penthouses?) in very desirable weeks (Christmas, Presidents week, Regatta and Easter weeks) in very desirable properties and even these people are not getting near the monies they hoped to realize on resales. Best suggestion - check ebay - we bought a week we really wanted there for $12.00.

6. Each option - floating or fixed has its own merits depending on your needs and the properties rules and regulations. We bought fixed weeks after visiting the island for fifteen years at the same time of year but our resort allows for internal exchanges in house within the same year. Others have great luck with floasting time but I always wonder how the developers/management can guaranty absolute certainty of some weeks not being oversold. I really don't know enough about the option but then, I don't need to.

7. Not sure what you're asking but my personal experience is I always hear people talking about the great deals they've gotten but I know for a fact, they can't get the best unit at the Towers for week 17 in a two bedroom unit because I own it and I use it almost every year. But that would be a personal opinion, wouldn't it!

8. I doubt the infor regarding AMFs and special assessments is available anywhere. Why would they want to give that info out?

9. Dawn Beach Club was an older timeshare on the island that was destroyed during a hurricane. Two schools of thought exist, but the bottom line was the developer either failed to pay the insurance on it or he paid the insurance and was paid by the insurer aand absconded with the monies, leaving the timeshare owners with nothing.

10. I know nothing about Royal Resorts so wouldn't dare to comment.

11. Ditto re lock off units.

Don't know if I helped or not but it's about the best I could do. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: pat] #31172
12/31/2014 05:16 PM
12/31/2014 05:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
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TheViking Offline OP
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Hi Pat,

Thank you for your response. Georgia has also responded to other postings of mine and I very much appreciate those who take the time to respond. It is clear from scanning/reading these threads that you all are SXM veterans and
your comments should be absorbed thoroughly.

I really enjoyed my time on the island and I am resisting the urge to dive in quickly. Returning for another visit same time next year seems advisable.

I stayed in SBR Marina building as a relative has few units there. Liked the location saw Marigot (market, breakfast) Grand Case (dinner, shopping at night). Played poker (big hobby passion of mine) several evenings. Ate in some very memorable restaurants. Like the general "vibe" on the island. Relaxed a lot at the beach (Pelican KEy or Simpson bay beach not sure but the one attached to the resort) Know there is ALOT MORE to explore, see.

One last probe if I may..when you say DBC TS owners were left with nothing does that mean the resort is not operational? Ghost town? Just a bit confused by this. There are several 3bd units on resale market I wonder what they are selling?
Happy New Year to all.

All the Best,

V

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31173
12/31/2014 05:21 PM
12/31/2014 05:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,316
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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Quote
One last probe if I may..when you say DBC TS owners were left with nothing does that mean the resort is not operational? Ghost town? Just a bit confused by this.


From what I recall, Dawn Beach collected "insurance" money but never passed it on the any insurance company. When the hurricane wiped it out there was no insurance and basically everything was lost.

There is a new resort in that location now. It was a ghost town for many years.


J.D.
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: ruralcarrier] #31174
12/31/2014 05:24 PM
12/31/2014 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
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soualigacapt Offline
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Quote
ruralcarrier said:
Quote
One last probe if I may..when you say DBC TS owners were left with nothing does that mean the resort is not operational? Ghost town? Just a bit confused by this.


From what I recall, Dawn Beach collected "insurance" money but never passed it on the any insurance company. When the hurricane wiped it out there was no insurance and basically everything was lost.

There is a new resort in that location now. It was a ghost town for many years.


I thought the insurance money was paid to the broker and he never paid the insurance company and that's why there was no coverage.

Re: Timeshare decision [Re: TheViking] #31175
12/31/2014 05:34 PM
12/31/2014 05:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,433
Massachusetts
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Wow...lots of questions and I probably won't be of much assistance. We "own" at SBR, 2 weeks (2 & 3) 5th floor upper B building. We inherited it so no initial cash outlay...

I would suggest staying (renting) at a resort you have your eye on...if you like it then look for resales wherever you can find them..there are quite a few out there.

We like going at the same time every year so fixed weeks is a must for us...and fixed unit is even more important since we have a view to die for...points for a random unit just wouldn't cut it.

As an example here's a week at SBR in our building same floor....going for a buck so far..2 days to go

Quote
Here is your chance to own a Timeshare Membership (Expires in 2071) at a fraction of the developer price! This is a One Bedroom Suite with One Bathroom (Unit B-574; Week 17; Sleeps 4) wth FIXED RED WEEK 17 (April 26th - May 3rd, 2015; Sunday Check In/Out) at the Simpson Bay Resort and Marina, an RCI SILVER CROWN Resort & Interval International Resort located in Simpson Bay, Sint Maarten, Netherlands Antilles!!!. All fees are current with mortgage paid in full; you will receive clear title guaranteed. Your usage is ANNUAL and starts in 2015.

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: soualigacapt] #31176
12/31/2014 06:00 PM
12/31/2014 06:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,316
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline
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One or the other. Bottom line, a lot of people lost.


J.D.
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: ruralcarrier] #31177
12/31/2014 06:14 PM
12/31/2014 06:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,562
Long Island, NY
RICKnGRACE_LI_NY Offline
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We have stayed at Royal Resorts in Cancun. It was the Royal Mayan. Royal runs a great resort. We have family who have stayed at sister resorts. As a former Pelican owner, I was thrilled when we first brought in Royal, because they do run a great operation. They did a great job updating Pelican. But then they decided to screw over the Pelican owners and build SBR. So I let my Pelican TS go. They still run a great resort. They just screwed me.


Rick and Grace
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: ruralcarrier] #31178
12/31/2014 08:09 PM
12/31/2014 08:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
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TheViking Offline OP
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TheViking  Offline OP
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To All,
Wow several sites have a "Westin" Dawn Beach Club 3bd timeshare for sale and some for rent. Scams?? There is one on ebay NOW with bids ($2700 or there a bouts ) YIKES Also I was contacted to rent one from someone via VRBO..This is very scary. I know this TS is not a Westin but rather was/is able to use the facilities there but is not in the Starwood Vacation Network. Hope this post/thread saves someone from being a victim of fraud.
boucharda:
I stayed in the yet to be renovated Marina building and while old I liked the location and proximity to the beach and airport I know they are renovating them this year. I did the sales pitch and saw a lot of units. I like the shoulder season in late fall early winter.
A 2bdrm lock off with a view in the back buildings would really suit our needs so I will continue to be on the look out. Was offered a studio from an owner I met on the beach your (B building) in front of pool but too small for our needs/not worth the maintenance IMO (for a 40 to 50% more in MF you could get the 1/2bds) Don't really like the F building right on the beach as it does not afford any balcony privacy. Some have offered me Marina building to "adopt" but not in the weeks I want.
If anyone hears of any Deals/ let me know. I am planing on going back next end Nov/Dec just not sure where I will stay this time.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31179
12/31/2014 08:15 PM
12/31/2014 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
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TheViking Offline OP
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Rick and Grace:
Do you mean they built the SBR & Villas?
Screwed you b/c
a) Blocked your view with the new building?
b) They rent out the villas first making the back buildings less rentable desirable?
c) Excessive Assessments that needed to be paid

I realize this may be sore subject and I very sorry for you and ANYONE who gets the shaft in this TS world (which BTW seems to be a good % of people)

REgards,

V

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31180
12/31/2014 08:16 PM
12/31/2014 08:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,822
Peaceful Eastern North Carolin...
GaKaye Offline
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There is a Westin hotel on Dawn Beach, and I heard they were selling timeshares. That's all I know about that.

You've mentioned the shoulder season a couple of times, and I'm pretty sure there are some La Vista Beach units available for that timeframe. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the two-bedroom units on the beach are lock-offs. I could be wrong about that, so be sure to check and make sure. (Which I'm sure you would, as you are being very thorough!)


[Linked Image]
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: GaKaye] #31181
12/31/2014 08:27 PM
12/31/2014 08:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 15
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TheViking Offline OP
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TheViking  Offline OP
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Georgia you are a Peach! Happy New Year. Will contact them after the New Year..
Cheers Everyone!

Re: Timeshare decision [Re: TheViking] #31182
12/31/2014 09:02 PM
12/31/2014 09:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,687
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Online content
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SXMScubaman  Online Content
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Auburn, WA
In regards to splitting a lock of, at the flamingo its a 100.00 fee to split and use your week at a different time or move your whole unit week. To split and bank your week with II its a 50.00 fee.

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31183
12/31/2014 09:26 PM
12/31/2014 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,507
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Quote


One last probe if I may..when you say DBC TS owners were left with nothing does that mean the resort is not operational? Ghost town? Just a bit confused by this. There are several 3bd units on resale market I wonder what they are selling?
Happy New Year to all.

V


Tv,

You are very welcome.....it's always a pleasure to answer questions regarding my favorite island, and I'm sure others feel the same way.

I want to clarify my Dawn Beach Resort comments.

When I speak of the Dawn Beach Club and/or the Dawn Beach Resort, I am referring to the one that was originally built and in existence in the 70s and 80s until it was totally destroyed by a major hurricane many years ago (don't recall with certainty but I'm thinking in '95?) and my references have nothing whatsoever to do with any properties being marketed under those names today. And when I reference the insurance monies, in whatever form - whether those paid by unit owners to the management/developer in the form of AMF payments or monies that may or may not have been paid out after the ultimate destruction of this place by the insurance company - I am only making comments regarding that same original Dawn Beach Resort.

Anything that's marketed today under that same or similar name has nothing to do with the original property I was speaking about.

Over all these many years I have heard countless different accounts from many different sources (who may or may not have known what they were talking about) as to what actually happened to any of those insurance monies, but the bottom line for those who owned there at the time was they ended up with nothing - no yearly vacation home to enjoy; no refund of any monies they laid out to buy there; and no portion of any possible insurance pay-outs, assuming there may have been insurance and if damage pay-outs were actually made.

Personally speaking, I'm inclined to think the insurance monies were paid by the owners one way or the other but "someone" neglected to actually use those monies for the insurance purchase and those same monies probably ended up in "someone's" off shore account while "someone" lived happily ever after. I can sometimes be such a Negative Nancy!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31184
12/31/2014 10:41 PM
12/31/2014 10:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,956
Vancouver, WA
Todd Offline
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First off, Georgia certainly is a "peach", and Pat is pretty keen as well.

Next, a key starting issue is the AMF's. Purchasing into a place that the cost to own is higher than renting is something you want to avoid. Know what you kind of want, then watch places like Ebay and be patient. You do not need to hurry, they will keep coming up and up, and then you will find the place and bargain you want and until then you can rent a place.

PM me if you wish to get AMF info on places like: Royal Islander La Plage, La Vista, Towers, Atrium and a few other places. I have them researched and I own at the listed places and they rate high to me. I have spent a fair amount of time prior to any purchase I made and note that we have stayed at most of the time share places on SXM. I have also looked at that listing of Dawn Beach in the 3bdr 2 ba unit, and just so you know it keeps coming up over and over. This will not be the last time you see that listing and it sometimes goes for a lot, sometimes it goes for about nothing.

Be patient, and note that what ever you purchase the resale is pretty much zero. Do not bet a buck that you will get any money back for what you purchase, the market is very soft and the island has excess units with the exception of a couple resorts.

Good luck,
Todd


I prefer the Isle seat
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: soualigacapt] #31185
12/31/2014 10:59 PM
12/31/2014 10:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 389
St. Maarten
takeus2sxm Offline
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I was one of the people who had a timeshare at Dawn Beach.You're correct about the broker absconding with the money. I heard they eventually caught up with him in England and he went to jail. It was an awesome resort Too bad they filled the area with that homely Weston.

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: takeus2sxm] #31186
01/01/2015 10:11 AM
01/01/2015 10:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,041
jeannie239 Offline
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Ok I am certainly not a timeshare expert... But dawn beach club is a place I go often to do deliveries... As far as I know it is affiliated with westin and is in westin property.

They are beautiful well kept units that are not part of the hotel chain but on it's own time share units...

The units are always well maintained has the westin touch even the beds are heavenly beds that i so love ... No I did not sleep on it lol but just noticed...


Need your groceries delivered ?
Order your groceries online @
www.shopndropgrocerysxm.com
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: jeannie239] #31187
01/01/2015 12:27 PM
01/01/2015 12:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,507
Brookfield, CT.
pat Offline
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Jeannie,

As I'm sure you've already figured out, the units you are familiar with and the ones we are discussing from days of old are two totally different resorts from two totally different eras of island history. Many of the earlier visitors remember fondly the beautiful resort that once graced that hillside and beach location. And today we have the behemoth concrete Westin. No further comments necessary from me but I'm thinking the island old-timers know exactly what I'm talking about.


Respectfully,

pat



"Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat
them."
Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: jeannie239] #31188
01/01/2015 12:35 PM
01/01/2015 12:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 518
Alpharetta, Ga
glo Offline
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I have owned three timeshares and sold three timeshares in St. Maarten. Owned at the Sapphire very unhappy and very glad to sell it to somebody that wanted it because they had a week prior and they wanted two weeks bought it for 3000 sold it for 1500.

Owned at the flamingo two bedroom lockout bought it for 500 sold for 7000.

Owned at the atrium two bedroom six floor, bought for 1500 sold for 1500.

I personally would only own fixed weeks, as I want to know the exact location of the room and when it's a floating week you never know.

I sold the Sapphire because I was unhappy with the resort. Sold at the flamingo because it was such a profit. Sold the atrium because I can no longer travel except at Christmas time.

Flamingos maintenance fees are extremely high except for two bedroom lockouts. Atriums maintenance fees are decent.

Re: Timeshare decision [Re: TheViking] #31189
01/01/2015 01:00 PM
01/01/2015 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 714
Western MA
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SandS Offline
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Just thought I'd add my two cents. If you are interested in SBR now might be the time to buy in the Marina building or Flamboyant building because they will be renovated starting in March. Owners who don't want to pay the reno fee might be trying to unload them. As to the F building where we own, we think it is the best building because we are beach lovers. We never had a problem with the balcony because when people are on the beach it is too hot to sit out on. Breakfast & evenings on the balcony are wonderful & there are usually no people on the beach at those times.

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: pat] #31190
01/01/2015 02:26 PM
01/01/2015 02:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,041
jeannie239 Offline
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Thanks Pat... yes indeed I am cluless about what it used to be...

Thank you for sharing. BTW Happy New Year to ALL

Regards
Jeannie


Need your groceries delivered ?
Order your groceries online @
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Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: jeannie239] #31191
01/01/2015 03:04 PM
01/01/2015 03:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,294
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january Offline
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My latest Interval International resort directory lists The Dawn Beach Club on page 183. All units are three bedrooms and the picture in the book is of the Westin Hotel.

Re: An Open Note to TheViking [Re: TheViking] #31192
01/01/2015 04:35 PM
01/01/2015 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,562
Long Island, NY
RICKnGRACE_LI_NY Offline
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Quote
TheViking said:
Rick and Grace:
Do you mean they built the SBR & Villas?
Screwed you b/c
a) Blocked your view with the new building?
b) They rent out the villas first making the back buildings less rentable desirable?
c) Excessive Assessments that needed to be paid

I realize this may be sore subject and I very sorry for you and ANYONE who gets the shaft in this TS world (which BTW seems to be a good % of people)

REgards,

V


I did not lose my view, but my BIL did. They screwed me with the excessive Special Assessment. They built the new building just as the world was crashing in 2007/08 and they were unsold for a while. Their bills came due and they had to get the money from somewhere. I finally just signed it back over to them. No tears from me though. I had it about 15 years and got my money's worth. Just wasn't paying those fees.


Rick and Grace

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