TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Dumb questions from a monohull captain

I've done 15 bareboat charters with Moorings, all on monohulls. It became apparent during my last 2 charters that maybe now that I'm in my 70s it might be time to turn to the dark side (just kidding) and charter a catamaran the next time. So I've got a bunch of basic questions that probably sound pretty stupid so bear with me and I hope to get some good information. We most likely will book a Moorings 4200.

What are the biggest differences in sailing. I know cats don't point as well and tacking is a bit different but this isn't a big concern. How difficult is reefing?

We've done 2 charters on a 46.3 mono and loved the fact the lines all lead back to the cockpit. On a typical cat, are the lines, including the main halyard, in the cockpit / flybridge?

I've watched videos and read about both anchoring and grabbing a mooring ball on a cat and figure we can learn the proper techniques pretty easily. Visibility from the flybridge would be my only concern.

I assume getting on and off from a dock is via the transoms. How difficult is this for a mobility limited person? How difficult is it to transfer luggage to the boat?

Similar question about getting on and off from a dinghy.

How difficult is it, once again for a mobility limited crew member, to get in and out of a dinghy if there is some wave action at the anchorage.

Outside of a nasty swell on the order of a Cane Garden Bay northerly swell (been there a long time ago will never do that again), how susceptible are cats to rolling at a "normal" anchorage? (Last trip a newbie had trouble sleeping in our mono if any sort of sideways roll.)

I really struggle backing into slips on a mono though the bow thrusters on the 46.3 made it much easier. How difficult is it to learn to use the dual engines for getting into a slip? Not sure I could master the crabbing technique but would be satisfied knowing how to back properly.

Any other tips from mono / now catamaran sailors would be appreciated.




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I am going to take a stab at this - but keep in mind I have a Lagoon 42, which might be set up a little different than the 4200 you're planning on chartering.

What are the biggest differences in sailing. I know cats don't point as well and tacking is a bit different but this isn't a big concern. How difficult is reefing?

The cat will have much better stability - no lean - both underway and especially at anchor. The motion underway is not as smooth as a mono, and while it never bothered me, I do know some mono sailors who were driven nuts by the "hobby horse" motion of sailing. Moored, cats move much less than monos (watching the difference in anchor light sway is a popular evening passtime). Reefing is very simple on cat since all the lines lead to the helm.

We've done 2 charters on a 46.3 mono and loved the fact the lines all lead back to the cockpit. On a typical cat, are the lines, including the main halyard, in the cockpit / flybridge?

All the lines should lead back to the helm. I crew a Leopard 50 (2 actually) and their topping lift is at the mast, but generally not a big deal.

I've watched videos and read about both anchoring and grabbing a mooring ball on a cat and figure we can learn the proper techniques pretty easily. Visibility from the flybridge would be my only concern.

Catching the ball is a tad different since you will lose sight of the ball. Good hand signals with the crew helps with that. Also, I yell "Where's the ball?" they point to it real quick, and I know how to twist the boat to help them. On my boat I lose sight of the ball at about 5' so its really isn't too bad. With enough eager hands aboard, you can have someone do nothing but point at the ball, and make your life at the helm easier.

I assume getting on and off from a dock is via the transoms. How difficult is this for a mobility limited person? How difficult is it to transfer luggage to the boat? Similar question about getting on and off from a dinghy. How difficult is it, once again for a mobility limited crew member, to get in and out of a dinghy if there is some wave action at the anchorage.

Yep, on and off are via the sugar scoops. Never had a big issue getting luggage aboard - or groceries - but you do have to be careful and think it thru a little. We have had a couple of mobility limited people aboard in the past, and made it work out. If you kneel aboard the dinghy and hold it against the sugar scoops, people can board and use your shoulders as a support, as well as the dinghy davits. Also, the hull acts to shade the dinghy from the waves in that position. Don't think you'll have a big problem.

Outside of a nasty swell on the order of a Cane Garden Bay northerly swell (been there a long time ago will never do that again), how susceptible are cats to rolling at a "normal" anchorage? (Last trip a newbie had trouble sleeping in our mono if any sort of sideways roll.)

You guys are gonna sleep SO good!

I really struggle backing into slips on a mono though the bow thrusters on the 46.3 made it much easier. How difficult is it to learn to use the dual engines for getting into a slip? Not sure I could master the crabbing technique but would be satisfied knowing how to back properly.

Best part of driving a cat! 25' separation between engines! Can spin basically in her own hull length, and its easy to get the bow or the stern within a foot or two of anything you want. Take your time backing into a slip, and twist her when ever you want to adjust the bow position. Basically think about that old video game of Tank Driver with the two track throttles - your tank is just on ice (water) and the throttles are nicer. Its easy! Just take your time.


You will love your time on a cat. Just take it slow. 3/4 of your maneuvering is done at idle speeds, and lock the wheel centered at about 1.5kts or so. Rudders don't do much for you at that speed - better to just use the engines to drive (it is entertaining to watch someone use the wheel to steer at 1kts). Big precaution is to remember that since it doesn't heel, she won't give the traditional signs of being overpowered, so be a bit conservative (you don't want her to show you she's overpowered - by then its too late).

Have fun!

Keep Smiling!!!


-Peter

Peter, That is a really great set of answers. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

We have a 4200 in the Moorings fleet.


There are a lot of twists and turns to the single line reefing line and it can be a chore to shake out a reef without pulling slack at various points.
Unless you're in a big hurry I recommend leaving the 1st reef in, the penalty in light winds is pretty minimal.


All the lines are easily worked from the helm (until something gets stuck :-))


Visibility ahead is better than on a typical mono... visibility is excellent to starboard and poor to port and astern from the helm. You will have spotters on the bow. Overall much easier to pick up a mooring on the cat, anchoring not so much.


I would say these things are equally difficult vs. a mono with a swim platform.
Getting in and out of the dinghy is highly individual... consider renting a ladder at Moorings.


Cats are much much better in this respect. A heavy cruising cat is very stable and comfortable at anchor even in less than ideal conditions.


Keep in mind that you will center the rudders and use engines only for docking. Moorings will happily dock the boat for you. There is less to gain by backing, I usually turn at the slip. Visibility astern is not good. If you're driving, a starboard side approach is much easier.


Keep in mind it is a very different type of boat, and the typical charter mono is a much more performance oriented design than the typical charter catamaran. It will sail very, very differently but it still can be sailed badly or sailed well so enjoy the learning process.

MrEZgoin. Thanks for the input. I guess if you have one in the fleet you must like the 4200?

You mentioned using a ladder to facilitate getting in/out of a dinghy. We rented a dinghy ladder for our trip this month and I thought about using it to help getting in and out of the dinghy from the boat itself. The 46.3 has a large swim platform with no good handholds on the sides. We rigged dock lines from the stern cleats but it was a struggle to hold the dinghy in place and help the folks mount/dismount. How would you suggest using a ladder on a cat?

I always let Moorings bring the boat into their marina. I've docked at Leverick, Oil Nut, and Scrub Island, ultimately successful but usually embarrassingly bad technique. When we charter a cat we'll probably have at least one non-Moorings marina docking.

As far as sails getting stuck, it's always the main having problems with that damn stackpack system of theirs. The lazyjacks seem to have a fatal attraction to the main's battens.

Sorry I thought you meant getting in and out of the water. On the Cat, I typically position myself at the bow of the dinghy and grab onto the pushpit or davits and pull hard to keep the dinghy in the "corner" formed by the hull and aft bridge deck. I offer the free hand to the boarding individual. This has worked pretty well even for the less-than-super-steady.

Docking can be stressful if you start getting micro-managing input on what to do with the throttles.
I find it really helpful to have a clear idea of where and how I am docking - and then manage the approach on my own.

I agree that battens getting hung up raising the battened mainsail can be frustrating. What I have found works best is to "fly" the sail between the lazy jacks, looking up through the helm roof window with my hand on the wheel and toe on the winch button. This does take some practice.
If you have able and willing crew, they can stand on the coachroof with boathooks to guide the sail and free it when it gets hung up.

Isn't it nice to share a special kinship with the relatively small set of people who know the frustration of snagging the battens in the lazy jacks EVERY SINGLE TIME!

I also like this group because of the depth of knowledge of the people who frequent the board and posts don't get bombed by trolls like happens elsewhere.

I had gotten pretty adept at the technique of heading dead into the wind, watching the weathervane and shouting go / stop to the person doing the hoist. This was especially fun heading to Anegada in pretty rolly seas.

So how smooth is the ride in a cat in beam and following seas. Our ride to/from Anegada this year on a mono in 3-5 foot seas this year was pretty much like an amusement park ride. How bad is the hobby horse motion heading upwind in similar seas?

Put the autopilot in wind mode, adjust to zero degrees and motor forward slowly. The auto pilot does a lot better job keeping the boat into the wind than hand steering. Haven’t snagged a batten in the lazy jack in a long time using this technique.

However, do watch where you are going. It sometimes takes longer than you think to get the main sail up and that island in front of you is getting closer every second.

We chartered a cat (from BVI Yacht Charters) for the first time this past February. We hired a captain for the first day, and I was glad. Captain Earl was excellent! He led us through anchoring (including attaching the bridle), mooring, etc.

I found maneuvering with the two throttles to be pretty intuitive. We had to change slips at Peter Island Sprat Bay, because in the first slip the electrical outlet was dead. I had no problem pulling forward and repositioning, then backing into the second slip.

When using the two throttles, it's often recommended that you lock the wheel. But when you're backing up, the water exerts a large force on the rudder trying to push it to the side. We found that we couldn't lock the wheel tightly enough to prevent that, and eventually the rudder would go slamming over. So we just left the wheel unlocked, so the rudder would (gently) go where it wanted to.

MrEZgoin mentioned being micro-managed on the throttle control. This generally happened after we were already attached to the dock, and the dock crew then wanted to optimize the tension in the lines. So they'd call out "forward on starboard", etc.

As we were docking at Scrub Island, the guy on the dock pulled tight on a line when he shouldn't have, spun us around, and whacked our bow into the dock. There was a scary crunching noise, but I guess that was from the vertical boards (made of composite) attached to the dock. Fortunately there was no visible damage to the boat. Also fortunately, my buddy was driving at the time, not me.

It was a great trip, and I would certainly "go cat" again.

Dan

Oh yeah, I meant to mention the issue of boarding from a dock, for someone with limited mobility. I'd say this can be an issue. None of our crew had significant mobility problems, but it still was less convenient than on a typical monohull.

We stayed in several marinas, and in each case they gave us a dock step to use. That allowed boarding from the side, rather than the stern. But this was not a cure-all. It was sometimes just a little tricky to securely go from the dock step to the boat (grabbing onto one of the shrouds), and then step over the lifeline. We'd sometimes use the dock step, and sometimes just go from the stern swim platform, depending on the tide, the height of the dock, and the positioning of the boat.

Dan

A cat in beam seas can be a little annoying - and as my first captain told me, "The ladies don't like it!" Slide left or right 10 or 15 degrees, much better ride. Seas directly off the stern are not my favorite, not only is it a lousy point of sail, but mostly because Otto doesn't deal well with it, and then the [censored] end swings all over the place left and right. Again, bear off a little, and the ride is much nicer! But even with those points of sail, you'll probably find it smoother - if different - than the ride in a mono.

Play with it - you'll like it.

As for locking the wheel when maneuvering with just engines, yeah, you can't really get the knob tight enough - at some point the wheel tries to spin. Once I tighten it up, I keep my knee locked into it, and it doesn't spin - I am generally not moving that fast (intentionally). And it presents another opportunity to use another one of those eager but idle crew - "Here, hold the wheel right here, no matter what!" lmao

Keep Smiling!!!

I don't recall a wind mode option on the 46.3 though it supposedly has the full Raymarine package. I'll look for it next trip. It can hold a better course for sure, but still gets knocked off by windshifts and waves.

They didn't have the stackpack system our first few charters in the 80s. Sure the main was a mess after a quick takedown but easily fixed when at anchor.

Get a cat in beam or following seas in deep,1000ft plus, water and it is wonderful. The trip to Anegada can still be quite lively due to the shallow water. Don't let that stop you going though, it'll be over pretty quickly.

I have found it helpful to backwind the headsail when tacking to complete the tack. Otherwise, you need to be going fast and have perfect timing to make it around. For grabbing a mooring, hand signals a must!

Kevin

We chartered a Moorings 4500 earlier this spring. This is a great boat and we had fun but here are some observations.

For this boat it was impossible to see the bow mooring crew from the helm station unless they were standing. So a signaler is absolutely necessary (someone fairly calm helps)!

We had some lovely sailing to Anegada and from there to JVD.

On our charter I don’t recall ever going to the mast for reefing. All lines came back to the helm station and an assistant there was helpful.

I always lean against the wheel when using the throttles for maneuvering.

I am learning from this thread about dinghy usage - thanks!

Lots of good information here. My mom was a diehard monohull sailor and we always joke that she is turning over in her grave that both my brother and I have bought catamarans. We own a Leopard 42, which is what the Moorings 4200 is. Some of my thoughts to add to the other comments...

Tacking is much easier on the 42 compared to the other catamarans I have sailed but nothing like the ease of tacking a monohull. Just make sure to have your speed up before you start your turn.

The new 42s are also now equipped with a camera on the bow to help you see your blind spot (the port bow).

A catamaran is, in my opinion, much more comfortable both at anchor and underway although you give up being able to head closer to the wind when underway.

I also think the 2 engines make it much easier to maneuver when docking and/or picking up a mooring ball. As a child, the engine on the boat we lived on seemed to conk out at the most inconvenient times, so the fact that you have 2 engines on a cat makes me very happy. We have had many times where one engine has died and it is nice to have the other engine to rely on. Although it is a whole different ballgame trying to maneuver a cat with one engine.

I do think getting into the dinghy is easier on a cat. The person can sit down on the sugar scoop and scoot into the dinghy.

And last but not least, having the "owner's suite" on the Moorings 42 is really nice! You have the entire hull to yourself and the larger bathroom is really nice.

Thanks to everyone for a lot of very good information.

Next July is our 50th wedding anniversary. In 1976 we honeymooned in Barbados and while we loved it, we "discovered" the BVI in the 80s and pretty much are leaning towards a BVI trip to celebrate.

Our family members have been the main crew for our last dozen or so charters. As we grow older we depend more and more on them for some of the more physical chores of a bareboat charter. My next task will be to see if we can get everyone's schedule aligned for a charter which may prove difficult. I figure the comfort of a catamaran (which would be our first) might be sufficient enticement. If unsuccessful, my backup plan will be to hire a captain.

The wheel should be locked at slow speeds on a cat. Backing speeds should be kept very low however if you need to back faster you will have to hold the wheel. Having the rudders go hard over can damage the steering gear.

Although I'm a monohull boater at heart, I've been driving catamarans for a while. Most recently, I did a transatlantic (two of us on a Leopard 4800). It took me a couple of days to get used to the very different offshore motion on a cat, but in inclement weather, it was far easier to cook than on my J57! The noise level, both from the wake and from waves slamming, is higher on a catamaran than on a mono and that is a big difference. Docking a catamaran is easier than a mono (without a bowthruster). I do the same as the previous posters in that I lock the wheel dead-centre and don't use it for the final approach. Unlike a mono, where you need a bit of speed to get the rudder and keel work for directional stability, a catamaran like to go slowly. Unless there's a crosswind, where catamarans have a lot more windage and less weight/keel to stop it from going sideways. But those two engines with props quite far apart make for driving a catamaran like a tank while docking!

What I find is that the published windspeed and reefing values need to be adhered to. Religiously. A catamaran, unlike a monohull, gives very little feedback when it is overpowered.