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END OF AN ERA #37175
01/30/2015 10:14 AM
01/30/2015 10:14 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24
TikoTiko Offline OP
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TikoTiko  Offline OP
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The end of an era….The Government of Saint-Martin has decreed Arrete no001-06 no more nudity on Tintamarre. On our last cruise to Tintamarre Capt Philippe was approached by the Reserve Naturel and told no more nudity on Tintamarre. On the boat and around in the water ok..but a swimsuit or pareo to stroll the beach… we hope that Club O can convince them to grant an excemption for TIKO TIKO on the grounds of acquired rights over 16years…

SXM Sponsors
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37176
01/30/2015 10:15 AM
01/30/2015 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Wow. Now that's sad..


Carol Hill
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Carol_Hill] #37177
01/30/2015 10:35 AM
01/30/2015 10:35 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24
TikoTiko Offline OP
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TikoTiko  Offline OP
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Posts: 24
I know I know....first the mud baths now this....

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37178
01/30/2015 10:42 AM
01/30/2015 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,545
Eric_Hill Offline

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Do you think it will also apply to Green Cay? Isn't it part of the reserve also?


Eric Hill
TTOL Sponsors
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37179
01/30/2015 10:42 AM
01/30/2015 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 31
Toronto, Ontario
L
lovemysxm Offline
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lovemysxm  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 31
Toronto, Ontario
Very sad indeed ......... had some fabulous trips on TIKO TIKO to Tintamarre. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Eric_Hill] #37180
01/30/2015 10:52 AM
01/30/2015 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Snorkeller Offline
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Snorkeller  Offline
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Posts: 1,124
Virginia
Green Cay is part of the Reserve.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37181
01/30/2015 11:06 AM
01/30/2015 11:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,844
New England (home), St. Maarte...
jmbcomms Offline
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jmbcomms  Offline
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Posts: 5,844
New England (home), St. Maarte...
So pointless...


Jeff Berger
Visiting SXM Since 1978
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37182
01/30/2015 12:22 PM
01/30/2015 12:22 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,957
New Brunswick & Quebec, Canada
MarcG Offline
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MarcG  Offline
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Posts: 4,957
New Brunswick & Quebec, Canada
Quote
TikoTiko said:
The end of an era….The Government of Saint-Martin has decreed Arrete no001-06 no more nudity on Tintamarre. On our last cruise to Tintamarre Capt Philippe was approached by the Reserve Naturel and told no more nudity on Tintamarre. On the boat and around in the water ok..but a swimsuit or pareo to stroll the beach… we hope that Club O can convince them to grant an excemption for TIKO TIKO on the grounds of acquired rights over 16years…


Possibly a change to Happy Bay could be done?



[Linked Image]
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37183
01/30/2015 01:46 PM
01/30/2015 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,345
The Villages, FL
BobandJeana Offline
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BobandJeana  Offline
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The Villages, FL
This does not Bode well for Phillip.
What the hell could they be thinking?

BobandJeana

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37184
01/30/2015 03:35 PM
01/30/2015 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,549
originally Long Island, NY/now...
irish1223 Offline
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irish1223  Offline
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Posts: 1,549
originally Long Island, NY/now...
What a shame! We have some great memories of our trips to Tintamarre on the Tiko Tiko. Seems so pointless to do this. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />


Robin & Ed

Looking forward to getting back next year!

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37185
01/30/2015 04:12 PM
01/30/2015 04:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,874
Royersford, PA (30m NW of Phil...
Biturbo Offline
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Biturbo  Offline
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Posts: 1,874
Royersford, PA (30m NW of Phil...
Very sad news. We loved our Tiko Tiko cruises to Tintemarre. Hopefully, they'll change their minds. But, for now, one must wonder what's next. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />


"In a yellow El Camino, listening to Howlin' Wolf" - Lucinda
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: irish1223] #37186
01/30/2015 04:20 PM
01/30/2015 04:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
I certainly would be interested in hearing the justification for this, as it makes no sense..


Carol Hill
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Carol_Hill] #37187
01/30/2015 04:41 PM
01/30/2015 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,913
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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Posts: 12,913
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Perhaps people on other boats who go there for excursions were complaining. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease! It was families on Disney cruise ships that complained about nudity at Orient Beach and look what happened there.




Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: irish1223] #37188
01/30/2015 04:42 PM
01/30/2015 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
R
rickwac Offline
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R
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Posts: 3
We're staying at Clubo in March. Planning on doing the Tiko Tiko (again). Hopefully Philippe will have alternatives to
Tintamarre. Have thoroughly enjoyed prior trips.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: islandgem] #37189
01/30/2015 05:10 PM
01/30/2015 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,198
L
Lreserve Offline
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Lreserve  Offline
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Posts: 1,198
No, I highly doubt it, the 9 boats we work with, none of us have complained, Bob knows Captain Phillipe personally so please don't include us.

Orient Beach was more about local French families complaint from what I have been told.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Lreserve] #37190
01/30/2015 05:14 PM
01/30/2015 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,549
originally Long Island, NY/now...
irish1223 Offline
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originally Long Island, NY/now...
Quote
Lreserve said:
Orient Beach was more about local French families complaint from what I have been told.

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />


Yes, that's what we were told too.


Robin & Ed

Looking forward to getting back next year!

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Lreserve] #37191
01/30/2015 05:29 PM
01/30/2015 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,913
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem Offline
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islandgem  Offline
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I never said the boat captains complained. I said the [color:"blue"]people[/color], meaning passengers on the boats complained.I am certain the captains would not complain; sorry if you read this wrong. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />




Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: islandgem] #37192
01/30/2015 05:43 PM
01/30/2015 05:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,198
L
Lreserve Offline
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Lreserve  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,198
Cruise ship people haven't any control over excursions not sold on the ship, the excursion to Tintamarre is sold mainly through private companies like ours through the internet, the passengers would complain to Bob not to the ship. And Bob has never complained to anyone.
He also explains to families when they ask about topless on the beaches, that you are in a foreign country, the adults are more concerned than the children & most clients from cruise ships still book the excursion.
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Lreserve] #37193
01/30/2015 05:47 PM
01/30/2015 05:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Central Florida!
So Lyn, do you have a theory as to why this action was taken?


Carol Hill
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Carol_Hill] #37194
01/30/2015 05:55 PM
01/30/2015 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,198
L
Lreserve Offline
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Lreserve  Offline
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L
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,198
We were as surprised as you to see the post, for now there will only be second hand information swirling. We don't want want to be included in any misinformation. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

And Carol, I highly doubt the French Reserve or whoever else is involved gives any thought about cruise ship people's concerns. Believe me.

Last edited by Lreserve; 01/30/2015 06:29 PM.
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Lreserve] #37195
01/30/2015 07:03 PM
01/30/2015 07:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 535
norwalk, ct
D
Dansc Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 535
norwalk, ct
I have to say I am not a nudist and have no interest but this is very sad to me. This is very much a part of what st. Maarten is about and I have always loved that aspect of being there that you accept everyone as long as they are hurting no one. Very sad indeed! Further trying o sterilize our world

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Dansc] #37196
01/30/2015 07:17 PM
01/30/2015 07:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 257
sxm
Iall Offline
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Iall  Offline
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Posts: 257
sxm
Not that I am into nudism or naturism, but I find it ironic, to say the least, that "Naturism" is prohibited in a "Natural" Reserve...
However, to answer Carol's question, this action was taken in the pure line of government policies about nudity in "public". The Reserve Naturelle is turning as a bunch of obsessed people about regulations... They are evicting "Tropical Wave" from the Galion, evicting "Butterfly Farms" (which BTW was stupidly fined last week for not have special license and permit to handle "wild animals" (no kidding...), they are taking a bunch of action to sit their "new" authority recognized by the Government.. I am totally for protection of Nature, and I certainly do not want the French side to become a concrete jungle like the Dutch side, I am condoning protection and reservation of nature, but IMHO there are some limit to the stupidity of the action taken to achieve this goal! stupid, scilly and sad

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Iall] #37197
01/30/2015 08:05 PM
01/30/2015 08:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
S
soualigacapt Offline
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S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,631
Oyster Pond St. Martin
Here is another example of government interfering with normal business and practices.

The other day I was approached by Dutch side immigration officers and questioned about what we do. I told them we have snorkeling excursions to the French side,. I was told that I now have to pass through immigration clearance in and out of the dutch side and pay a government fee to go to the French side. This is totally ridiculous and is totally against the treaty of Concordia signed in 1648 between the Dutch and French side guaranteeing free passage between the French and Dutch sides. I told the officers this but they were adamant that this is the law . I told them that we are no different than a taxi taking someone from the dutch side to the French side but they insisted they are right. If they push the issue I'm getting a lawyer! Obviously no one knows what they are doing or saying.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: soualigacapt] #37198
01/30/2015 08:22 PM
01/30/2015 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
Louisiana
o2bnsxm Offline
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Posts: 1,020
Louisiana
I wonder how the Govt can enforce the nudity ban on an uninhabited deserted Island. Are the Gendarmes going to make routine patrols by boat to check??? They cannot possibly have the manpower or resources to monitor the activity on Tintamarre. If they have the extra manpower to do this, wouldn't it be better spent targeting the robberies and auto burglaries that are happening?
Unless they act on a complaint of a passing boat, I just don't see how this could happen. When looking at Tintamarre from Orient Beach, you can't even see someone on the Beach much less if they are wearing a bathing suit or not.

Sad sad sad

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: o2bnsxm] #37199
01/30/2015 08:31 PM
01/30/2015 08:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 257
sxm
Iall Offline
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Iall  Offline
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Posts: 257
sxm
Not only Gendarmes (which BTW have a marine patrol) can give fines for this kind of issues, but the Reserve Naturelle's Officers (equivalent to "Park Rangers") which are paid for that, beside more, by the organisation : "monitoring activities within the Natural Reserve"
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/handshake.gif" alt="" />

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: soualigacapt] #37200
01/30/2015 08:34 PM
01/30/2015 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 969
Maine U.S.A.
Modi Offline
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Modi  Offline
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Posts: 969
Maine U.S.A.
@soualigacapt Back in Oct. there was this thread Parliament Member Responds to French Border Issues in which trouble was apparently brewing with the borders... maybe negotiations haven't been going so well... putting you in the middle!

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Modi] #37201
01/30/2015 09:25 PM
01/30/2015 09:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 535
norwalk, ct
D
Dansc Offline
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Dansc  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 535
norwalk, ct
Ok, now what can we do about it as he economic engine, this must stop! I am willing to do whatever I can if there are viable options!

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37202
01/31/2015 10:40 AM
01/31/2015 10:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 186
J
JulieandKarl Offline
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JulieandKarl  Offline
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Posts: 186
Quote
TikoTiko said:
The end of an era….The Government of Saint-Martin has decreed Arrete no001-06 no more nudity on Tintamarre. On our last cruise to Tintamarre Capt Philippe was approached by the Reserve Naturel and told no more nudity on Tintamarre. On the boat and around in the water ok..but a swimsuit or pareo to stroll the beach… we hope that Club O can convince them to grant an excemption for TIKO TIKO on the grounds of acquired rights over 16years…


Stupid and unenforceable. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37203
01/31/2015 12:59 PM
01/31/2015 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 350
SeaStar Offline
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SeaStar  Offline
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Posts: 350
How does this action preserve nature???<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/cloud.gif" alt="" />
Time for the government to deal with the more serious issues on the island. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Hope common sense eventually prevails.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: SeaStar] #37204
01/31/2015 01:30 PM
01/31/2015 01:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,696
Auburn, WA
SXMScubaman Offline
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Posts: 12,696
Auburn, WA
If you want to be nude in public why not just stick to Club Orient since it is really the only approved legal beach to be totally nude in St Martin. Tintamarre is visited by many fully clothed boat excursions and total nudity isn't always appropriate nor appreciated by many visitors. Same as walking down Orient Beach off the Club O boundary. Why force this life style on another beach frequented by fully clothed people when you know it's not acceptable, legal or appreciated. Personally I can care less if nudes are walking around but I can see others viewpoints that don't want it.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: SXMScubaman] #37205
01/31/2015 01:34 PM
01/31/2015 01:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 720
Paris VA USA
JimRuos Offline
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Posts: 720
Paris VA USA
I have no clue about any political decision on the nudity ban at Tintamarre between the Reserve Naturelle and the government. Since the Reserve fosters people appreciation and use when environmental protection allows, it would be good to let the Reserve folks know your interest and request their support in having the government ban rescinded. Director of the Reserve… [email]nicolas.maslach@rnsm.org.[/email] If you are at SXM, stop by their office at Anse Marcel. The Reserve Naturelle deserves everyone’s support; the government with this decision? … Jim

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: SXMScubaman] #37206
01/31/2015 02:18 PM
01/31/2015 02:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 140
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Computerwise Offline
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Computerwise  Offline
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Posts: 140
Force nude lifesyle, what are you talking about. It has been commonly accepted there for 20+ years. I don't get this whole nude being upset thing. So if a women or man wear the smallest of thongs and go topless it's OK. Tell the people before they visit that they may encounter nude people and let them decide if they want to visit there.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Computerwise] #37207
01/31/2015 03:02 PM
01/31/2015 03:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
Louisiana
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Louisiana
Quote
Computerwise said:
Force nude lifesyle, what are you talking about. It has been commonly accepted there for 20+ years. I don't get this whole nude being upset thing. So if a women or man wear the smallest of thongs and go topless it's OK. Tell the people before they visit that they may encounter nude people and let them decide if they want to visit there.


<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: Lreserve] #37208
01/31/2015 03:05 PM
01/31/2015 03:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 993
Pittsburgh PA
P
plequerre Offline
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Pittsburgh PA
Quote
Lreserve said:

And Carol, I highly doubt the French Reserve or whoever else is involved gives any thought about cruise ship people's concerns. Believe me.


You got that right! They couldn't care less. This being said, I'd like to know the reason. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: SXMScubaman] #37209
01/31/2015 03:51 PM
01/31/2015 03:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 281
mikeandsandy Offline
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On first take, your comment seems to make sense. However, St Martin in known for allowing nudity in certain area's and beaches, most people understand and accept it. To change the policy now will only hurt tourism. For those who are offended, I suggest they go to those area's that fit their style, rather then expected others to adjust to theirs.

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: JulieandKarl] #37210
01/31/2015 04:03 PM
01/31/2015 04:03 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24
TikoTiko Offline OP
Sponsor
TikoTiko  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24
The Reserve patrol every day and the other forces occasionally...and I have posted a photo taken an hour ago on Tintamarre of the official sign on our facebook page...

Last edited by TikoTiko; 01/31/2015 04:05 PM.
Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37211
01/31/2015 04:14 PM
01/31/2015 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 221
Massachusetts USA
tmsxmsails Offline
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Massachusetts USA
I don't know the full history of all this so maybe I'm off base but I was under the impression that the Club O beach was the only place where full nudity was officially allowed. I thought that in all the other places it pops up, it was merely tolerated and you were subject to being told to cover up at any time. Is that true?

If so, then it looks like they are simply enforcing the rules that are already in place. Look at this this way. Say I'm a tourist who decides to avoid the full nudity of Club O because it goes against my morals or whatever. So, I decide to go to Tintamarre. But, much to my surprise, there are nudies there! Isn't that against the law? Aren't they supposed to keep it to the Club O beach. What? I should have somehow just known that they allow it there? WTF? Now my kids are scarred for life. :-)

The argument that "it's always been tolerated" holds some weight but it would always be trumped by the actual laws in any debate wouldn't it? I also think it's a bit of a stretch to presume that the tourists will stop coming if they ban nudity.

I don't care one way or the other frankly.

Unless they ban toplessness... *That* would be cause for a revolution!!

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: TikoTiko] #37212
01/31/2015 04:42 PM
01/31/2015 04:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 969
Maine U.S.A.
Modi Offline
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Maine U.S.A.
For something that was decreed just yesterday, it didn't take long for a fancy sign to get dragged across the bay and planted in the sand! Whatever happened to Island Time?
Tiko-Tiko's - Tintamarre Sign Photo

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: tmsxmsails] #37213
01/31/2015 04:50 PM
01/31/2015 04:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 140
C
Computerwise Offline
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Scarred for life because a kid saw a nude person..are you kidding? Are any of those same kids playing violent video games, sexting, or seeing Viagra commercials or just watching the violent news. Kids are not scarred by nudity and usually within a few seconds totally ignore it. It would not be a surprise to visit location where there is nudity as you would be forewarned..

Re: END OF AN ERA [Re: tmsxmsails] #37214
01/31/2015 05:46 PM
01/31/2015 05:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Carol_Hill Offline
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Carol_Hill  Offline
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Posts: 72,596
Central Florida!
Tintamarre is uninhabited, nudity has always been practiced there. There are no 'residents' to offend. For years, Tiko was the only boat that went there. Nudity or not has NO effect on maintaining the 'natural' state of the island. Ban boats from going there, or making campfires or whatever, or other things that actually have some EFFECT on the balance of nature. Banning nudity there is just plain government meanness, for no real purpose.


Carol Hill
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