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Dining fee charge on bill and not a
#37655
02/01/2015 06:07 PM
02/01/2015 06:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 913 N CENT COMMONWEALTH OF MA
SXMSAMMY
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Has anyone run into this lately, as I was reading a post about a Philipship eatery or maybe more, that were charging a dining room fee, and it was not a gratuity fee either. Just wondering if any one heard this or had it happen to them.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37656
02/01/2015 06:31 PM
02/01/2015 06:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,902 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Haven't heard of it. Who supposedly is charging it and how much is it?
Carol Hill
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37657
02/01/2015 07:10 PM
02/01/2015 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,143 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem
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A dining room fee? Would that be a fee to eat-in as opposed to take-out? That fee really seems foolish and not at all creative! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />Please give us more details if you have any.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#37658
02/02/2015 12:24 PM
02/02/2015 12:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 913 N CENT COMMONWEALTH OF MA
SXMSAMMY
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It was posted on Tripadvisor that Kangaroo Court was charging a dining room fee, no matter what time you are there.....it was reported as late as Sept 2014....
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: GaKaye]
#37660
02/02/2015 12:46 PM
02/02/2015 12:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 913 N CENT COMMONWEALTH OF MA
SXMSAMMY
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"When the bill came we saw the "dining charge" that we though was unreasonable and when we went up to pay by credit card there was a signing on the cash register Sorry Credit Card Machine Broke." "We have been planning our upcoming trip to St. Maartin and was looking forward to revisiting Kangaroo Court as it had been very enjoyable in the past. We came here to see how it had been rated lately and was shocked to see they are now adding a "dining fee". Needless to say, we have taken Kangaroo Court off our list of places we will visit. If the owners feel they aren't making enough money, they should just raise the prices. To do it this way is deceitful and underhanded. They have lost our business. " "When leaving, we noticed a six dollar diming fee added to our check. We assumed it was gratuity as it was about 15% of our bill. When I questioned the waitress about it, she said it was not gratuity and she received no part of it. She said it all went to the owner of the business. She told me that we would have to add the gratuity in addition to the six dollar charge. I informed her that no other restaurant that I have visited in St. Maarten has pulled this stunt. I can easily afford that extra six dollars, but it's just this unscrupulous tactic to increase their profits that irritated me. I told them I would be leaving a review on Trip Advisor about this invented fee of theirs."
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37661
02/02/2015 12:49 PM
02/02/2015 12:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,902 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Sounds like another version of the "service charge that is not the gratuity" BS, as the person said it was around 15%. I would not patronize such an establishment.
Carol Hill
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: GaKaye]
#37664
02/02/2015 01:55 PM
02/02/2015 01:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,088 Massachusetts
boucharda
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GaKaye said: OK, so it's the tip, and as usual, when asked, the waitstaff give the typical answer. I agree...that would be the tip and nothing else should be added. The Caribbean restaurant next to Lee's lists a "tax" of 15%...that was my tip
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: GaKaye]
#37667
02/02/2015 03:45 PM
02/02/2015 03:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,088 Massachusetts
boucharda
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Exactly...and I would add it if it wasn't already added by the establishment. If it is already added (called it whatever you want) then that is that
Last edited by boucharda; 02/02/2015 03:46 PM.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: GaKaye]
#37669
02/02/2015 03:54 PM
02/02/2015 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,143 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
islandgem
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That is only true on the French side, Georgia. The Dutch side waiters are definitely not paid the same as on the French side. Kangaroo Court is on the Dutch side and they do count on tips to augment their salary.It would be good to know exactly what this dining charge is and if other places are charging it as well. If it is truly "the tip" in disguise, then no extra amount is required.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37670
02/02/2015 04:41 PM
02/02/2015 04:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,549 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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SXMSAMMY said: It was posted on Tripadvisor that Kangaroo Court was charging a dining room fee, no matter what time you are there.....it was reported as late as Sept 2014.... I have no idea if this is fact or fiction but considering the source (TripAdvisor), I would look further for clarification. I find a lot of questionable things posted there and think a lot of the "ratings", especially of restaurants are very misleading. Perhaps someone on the island can check this out and give an accurate account and explanation. I will personally check it out in a few weeks if nobody else responds. Any "fee" they might be charging would negate an additional tip in many cases. I also wonder if this might not be an attempt to cover the Turnover Tax (TOT) that gets discussed on occasion.
J.D.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: islandgem]
#37672
02/02/2015 05:29 PM
02/02/2015 05:29 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,597 Sint Maarten
transplantsxm
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islandgem said: That is only true on the French side, Georgia. The Dutch side waiters are definitely not paid the same as on the French side. Kangaroo Court is on the Dutch side and they do count on tips to augment their salary.It would be good to know exactly what this dining charge is and if other places are charging it as well. If it is truly "the tip" in disguise, then no extra amount is required. Absolutely true! The Dutch side staff minimum wage is barely survivable, or in reality is not. French side minimum wage and three times the Dutch side. In reality and in general, Dutch side add a tip like in the US (unless you see a service charge on the bill which they are not supposed to do) and on the French side tip according to extraordinary service only. 15 years experience and that is my take on it.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: o2bnsxm]
#37675
02/02/2015 05:45 PM
02/02/2015 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,549 Ohio
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The place has been there for some time now and I believe was at one time owned and operated by a well-known local family. Not sure about now.
J.D.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37677
02/02/2015 06:19 PM
02/02/2015 06:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 82,902 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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...along with probably 50% of the restaurants in SXM. Honestly, MANY MANY places are for sale, whether it is advertised publicly or not..
Carol Hill
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37678
02/02/2015 06:55 PM
02/02/2015 06:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,549 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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What would that have to do with what you started the discussion about? Like Carol said, MANY restaurants are for sale. Make a reasonable offer and you can probably own a place.
J.D.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: ruralcarrier]
#37679
02/02/2015 07:04 PM
02/02/2015 07:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 913 N CENT COMMONWEALTH OF MA
SXMSAMMY
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Maybe it is under new management and they decided to add the dining fee.....did u ever think of that, or maybe the current owner is trying to boost the books or make some additional $$$ before the new owner takes over......there might be a correlation and then maybe not....
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37681
02/02/2015 07:28 PM
02/02/2015 07:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,549 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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Ok, I went on TripAdvisor and read through the "reviews". There is mention of the added charge going back at least as far as Dec. 2012 so it is nothing new.
Most of the comments indicate it approximates to 15% of the bill and when asked, the servers seem to know little about it. Which is how almost all act when asked about a "SERVICE CHARGE" or any related tax or additional charge. It was referred to as a "dining fee", "dining charge" and another mention of an added charge on a credit card.
Bottom line, based on what the servers are telling people and the fact it appears to be 15%, it is just another way of duping people into tipping more. They can call it what they like but that is what they are doing IMHO.
Since this has been going on for 2+ years, it debunks the theory that being for sale has anything to do with the charge.
J.D.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: ruralcarrier]
#37683
02/02/2015 08:47 PM
02/02/2015 08:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 913 N CENT COMMONWEALTH OF MA
SXMSAMMY
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JD, do you have first hand knowledge that this is not related to a sale in any way, as you sure do sound like there is no relationship at all? Where are your facts to debunk this? Maybe the new owners, if there are, are continuing the same practice? I went there back in 2013 and didn't have that charge on my bill.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: SXMSAMMY]
#37684
02/02/2015 09:11 PM
02/02/2015 09:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,549 Ohio
ruralcarrier
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I have no more knowledge that it is or is not related than you other than if it was going on back in 2012 it would have nothing to do with a real estate listing today.
In over 20+ years of visiting SXM and 40 trips to the island I have only had ONE (1) server, waiter, waitress, manager or owner that I have personally asked about a tip, gratuity, service charge (call it whatever) be honest with me.
I usually do not ask as I don't want the misleading BS I am almost sure to get. When asked about ANY additional charge it is almost certain the person being asked will mislead a tourist. A dining charge is just another way to hide a service charge and mislead people.
J.D.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: whitesands]
#37686
02/02/2015 11:41 PM
02/02/2015 11:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,955 NH
SandyandBill
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Yes and no. With respect to the French specifically, there is no such thing as a tip. Personally, I think it's semantics but it's called a pourboire and is usually the equivalent to a few coins but not expected.
ps Just for clarification. My comments were based on someone dining on French soil and wasn't meant to infer they wouldn't act accordingly to tipping customs in other countries. Additionally, I'm sure you know the OP was referring to a restaurant on the Dutch side which is an entirely different ballgame as previously stated.
Last edited by SandyandBill; 02/03/2015 12:01 AM.
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: weeks5051]
#37687
02/03/2015 08:38 AM
02/03/2015 08:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,088 Massachusetts
boucharda
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weeks5051 said: It is my opinion that the fastest way to alienate customers is to charge extra fees that are not only not announced first but fees that have never been heard of. I wouldn't pay a fee to enter a department store and I certainly wouldn't patronize a restaurant that charges a fee just to eat there. As I said previously it doesn't bother me in the least...call it whatever you want but any added fee approximating 15% is the tip and that is that. It is a deceptive practice geared towards those who MUST leave additional monies regardless of what is written on the bill...add 15% automatically? Thank you and have a nice day...
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Re: Dining fee charge on bill and not a
[Re: weeks5051]
#37691
02/04/2015 09:01 AM
02/04/2015 09:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,956 DC Area and sliding southward
dane
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weeks5051 said: It is my opinion that the fastest way to alienate customers is to charge extra fees that are not only not announced first but fees that have never been heard of. I wouldn't pay a fee to enter a department store and I certainly wouldn't patronize a restaurant that charges a fee just to eat there. I can't say this sort of fee is completely unheard of. I have been to a number of restaurants in Europe that charge a nominal ($5 or so) fee for "table charge", "tablecloth," "bread charge," etc. That said, I have not specifically heard of such a charge on St. Maarten, with the exception of a restaurant or two that place cushions/tablecloths on their daytime patio furniture and jack prices up in the evening <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, I have no personal issue with the practice as long as there is clear signage near the entry and/or on the menu. I then have the choice to eat (or not eat) there before the awkward situation comes up when an additional charge appears on the bill.
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