TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands something scary and something freaky

We just got back from several days of sailing from June 8-17. It was wonderful as usual though seemed like we had a lot more wind than we usually see in June and certainly a lot more boats out and about.

A couple of stories to amuse you. One is scary the other just plane out of the twilight zone. So scary story first.

Tuesday was our last night there before returning the boat back to CYOA on wednesday. So we first picked up a mooring in Maho bay on St. John. I thought it was just swell - sheltered from both wind and wave. But the admiral wants to be in Cinnamon bay so we only stayed there a couple of hours before dropping the ball and skipping over one bay. So we have the boat pointed into Cinnamon bay. We're probably 200 yards off of the mooring field which are probably 100 yards off of shore. I've got the admiral and my youngest girl (11) on the bow getting ready. We're of course motoring and going prudently slow. The girl and I have the headsets on. Then she screams "Swimmer swimmer swimmer!!!!!!". Now this is a kid that gets a bit excited about just about everything so I had no idea what that meant, i.e., where was the swimmer - on the beach or ??? Then I see him. He's twenty feet just off the starboard bow 90 degrees to our path on a collision course. He's wearing a black snorkel and mask with his head in the water doing a slow crawl. I slam the boat into reverse and avoid hitting him with three feet to spare. The guy looks up and says "sorry". The admiral never saw him until we stopped the boat. Sure glad the kid was on the bow! About scared the P out of me. Which ten minutes later I was kind of mad and wanted to punch the guy.

Now for the kind of freaky weird story. As I said we had been in Maho bay for a couple of hours. After we flew back home on wednesday my wife is catching up on the Facebook thing and comes across a posting from a neighbor a couple of streets over from where we live with a picture titled "beautiful sunset on Maho bay". Had no idea they were on St. Johns. My wife starts to look at their pictures. And they look an awful lot like her own sunset pictures from tuesday. So she looks at more of their pictures. Sure enough.... pictures from the same day. And drumroll here..... they have pictures of the bay earlier in the day with our boat in it! Small world or what?

Always something exciting when you're out sailing!

sorry, I don't understand why you want to punch the guy. I would think it is your responsibility to look where you are going. The swimmer has every right to swim in the bay.

Freaky happens. In 1999 we (me, wife, daughter and both boys) were onshore in Antigua and ran into my daughter's soccer teammate and her family from the same neighborhood.

That is scary and freaky. Although I always stop a lot and look around whenever I'm in the water it really is on the boater to avoid that situation.

I once had my runabout on a lake looking for a fishing hole. I went into a small inlet that had a dock on one side and I noticed one kid on the dock and another snorkeling on the other end of the dock. By the time I got into shallow water and had to turn around the kid in the water had made it to the other end of the dock. I was looking for him but didn't see him. As we were turning luckily I saw him underwater pushing off of the dock as my stern was swinging straight for him. He was probably 25 feet away and within 5 seconds we were about 10 feet apart. Luckily I stopped and he noticed the prop and popped up. I've thought about that one a lot over the years. I'm pretty sure I'd have been at fault if we hit him but even if somehow it had been deemed to be no one's fault it would have stuck with me for life. I'm a much better boater from that experience - now I expect the unexpected to happen.

He was well outside the bay. He was out in open water. But that's an interesting question - if he was out swimming in the Drake channel would that be my fault 'cause I should have seen him? Where is the limit - if it exists - of where the boater is responsible for the swimmer?

I think its always on the boat to avoid a swimmer, regardless of where they are, but a swimmer way outside any swim area should also pay attention.

Always good to have any crew member who sees something not only yell out what they see, but where and how far - my wife often gets excited if she see's something while we're driving and it annoys me as I often think there's something I need to watch out for, when it turns out to be nothing..

The other story is great - funny what a small world it is!

Had the same immediate reaction....

Agree with Matt, too - if the swimmer is in some obscure area, they need to pay attention.....

I think you did the right thing having the spotters up front. Your daughter deserves a hug - she really saved the day!

"He was well outside the bay. He was out in open water. But that's an interesting question - if he was out swimming in the Drake channel would that be my fault 'cause I should have seen him? Where is the limit - if it exists - of where the boater is responsible for the swimmer?"

I don't think it is about being responsible for the swimmer - more a matter of being responsible for the operation of the vessel.

Certainly a swimmer in open water should do their best to be aware of the possibility of boat traffic but I think the responsibility in the end falls to the vessel.

http://navruleshandbook.com/Rule5.html

Keep a proper lookout.

however the OP clearly stated they were in Cinnamon Bay getting a mooring ball, that is not in open water.

During daylight hours it's the boat operators responsibility to keep a lookout for swimmers, snorkeler's, fish traps Etc.
It would be difficult to impossible for a swimmer to avoid a moving boat.

The scary issue reminds me of one frequently encountered when mooring at the Bitter End or Saba Rock. Sail boarders zipping through a crowded mooring field who see themselves having right of way over sailing vessels under power headed for a mooring ball between two other vessels. Unfortunately, a 50 foot sailboat under power is not able to stop on a dime or turn away to avoid a collision. I don't know if a collision has happened yet, but I've seen some very close calls.

Actually I said we had the boat pointed into Cinnamon Bay. You can point a boat into a bay from a very long ways out. And I guess I don't understand why this is so important to you. I indicated in my follow up message that the swimmer was well outside the bay in what I would consider "open water". Why can't we take that at face value instead of trying the change the story? Were you there? It seems you are trying hard to make it into a speeding boat inside a swim area story or some hot head running around beating people up instead of what it really was. And in any case I was not trying to assign blame to the swimmer. I indicated it made me angry afterwards and that's what you seem to be most hung up on. Why was I angry with the swimmer? It was not because I thought the swimmer was in the wrong and I was in the right. But rather a reaction from an adrenalin rush from a scary situation where I thought the swimmer had acted irresponsibly in a way that could have resulted in injury. And that would have been a horrible thing - irrespective of who was at fault. I had 2 people as lookouts on the bow. I was scanning the area. But the fact that the swimmer was way outside the area any spotter/helmsman would be looking, wearing black and lying low in the water with very little movement made him very very difficult to spot.

Having said all that it seems you are really missing the point so either I'm not writing the story very well or you are reading it in a way it was not intended. My point was that it's probably not possible to be too careful out there sailing/motoring. And the same goes for swimming - make sure the boat sees you! So be vigilant or scary things might happen. And even if you are vigilant scary things can happen. And that's all I was saying. So please lets stop changing the story.

Not long ago, on a scuba diving trip, the dive guide reminded us a person at the water's surface would resemble no more than a partially submerged head of cabbage, not a full body like a pedestrian crossing the street. I once witnessed a popular sailing instructor "bump" a snorkeler with his dinghy in an anchorage at Peter Island. Luckily no one hurt, except for their feelings. I guess both swimmers and boaters are reminded to pay attention to their surroundings.

Anders,

We too had a similar experience sailing in the SFD Channel near Peter Island. In bright sun, several of crew "on watch", I saw a scuba diver on the surface to Starboard, no dive flag, no dinghy, well into the channel. The only thing visible above water was his head. Scared the heck out of me! We watched him as we passed thinking we might need to rescue him but a small boat came from behind us and picked him up. I wasn't quite sure what they were up to. After the small boat arrived we notice a fishing net/trap float in the water near them.

Tony

The reverse is true as well. If the swimmer is not visible, it is not easy for a boat to avoid a swimmer. While it may be technically correct that a boat must avoid a swimmer, the swimmer always loses the battle if there is contact. I would assume that most boaters make assumptions as to what would be considered a normal swimming/snorkelling area. You don't typically see swimmers 400 yards offshore.

I agree if the swimmer or diver is in open water where boaters are cruising or fishing he should use some common sense and tow along a dive flag or something to catch their attention.
The island passenger ferries can't even see a boat and sometimes collide with one.

Fault set aside, any open water swimmer with experience will almost always have a small chase boat following them for many reasons, not just to avoid getting run down by a boat.

While the boater may be responsible, this seems to a be a rule of tonnage thing too. I would sure be on the lookout for boats. Also, considering how loud motors are underwater, it's surprising that the swimmer didn't hear you first.

At White Bay as we were coming into the channel an idiot was swimming from a catamoran anchored just inside the anchorage across to another right across the channel entrance! He didn't look like he was ready to write me out a large check to cover the deductible if I had to put that boat on the reef to miss him and I am sure if I just ran him down that would have ruined some vacations so I understand when a non-violent person says they wanted to punch a swimmer (of course it never amounted to any thing more than a few hand gestures...) to add he wasn't really swimming rather floating over with drink in hand as you do...

I had a somewhat similar situation while motoring over to Marina Cay from Trellis early on the morning of June 3rd. I had entered into the mooring field in front of Marina Cay under idle speed when I spotted a kid - maybe 12 to 14 years old - in a dinghy off to my starboard bow. The kid had his head down concentrating on bailing water while the dinghy was moving erratically in no particular direction. Sure enough, the dinghy starts heading right for my starboard side. Adults in a moored sailboat start yelling "RYAN! RYAN!!, and I start yelling "HEY, HEY" at the top of my lungs. Everyone in the mooring field could hear the yelling - everyone except for the kid who had no clue about the impending disaster because he failed to keep an eye on where his dinghy was pointed. There was no way I could stop the boat before he hit so I gunned the throttle and turned hard to port. The bow narrowly missed the stern of the boat with the adults in it. I turned back to see the kid finally look up, startled about what almost took place. The adults just shrugged their shoulders at me. I was furious!! Stupid kid and stupid adults for allowing their kid to operate a dinghy without some basic rules for ALWAYS watching where you're going. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Here's one for the books . . . When coming into White Bay, we eyed a lady swimming toward the morring ball we had our eye on. She reached it and held on - when we got close she shouted to us, "I'm holding it for our friends who are coming in behind you!" Punch, you say??

proper course of action is to poke her away with a boat hook and yell something in German at her...

I would never want a friend of mine swimming in front of 50' sailboats in 20kn of wind to save me a ball when I have a hook dangling from the bow anyway...

That is just too funny!

Sorry folks. Gotta disagree .... If he was far from shores (like crossing Drake channel) without an escort vessel, then tough luck. There is a phrase about a "prudent mariner". I should not be expected to spot a cantalope in the middle of the ocean....I do keep a reasonable lookout (and live to snorkel) but that is taking serious chances with your life

My business partner, who introduced me to sailing and the BVI, tells the story of lining up to enter White Bay, but a cat was anchored right in the middle of the opening in the reef. Aboard were two couples. The men were potbellied and 60's, the women were extremely fit and 20's. They all had on hats, smiles, and that's it.

So what was the story...? <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

I guess he used the 2nd entrance?

This incident is sort of like in whitewater rafting. Sometimes you watch the show, sometimes you ARE the show.