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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: tradewinds]
#81790
01/12/2016 01:25 PM
01/12/2016 01:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,022 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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It sounds like he intends 'direct' to equal 'non stop', but in pure airline parlance, it is not the same thing. 'Direct' in airline parlance can mean, for example, the plane leaves Miami and flys to SJU, and someone then continues on to the BVI, without a change of plane. We shall see what happens!
Carol Hill
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#81791
01/12/2016 01:33 PM
01/12/2016 01:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,041 Upstate New York
TomC
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As Carol indicated, "direct" in airline parlance means no plane change. It is not synonymous with "non-stop". I frequently hear the term "direct" used in conversation when the obvious intended meaning is "non-stop". It remains to be seen what the premier is intending to convey in his communication.
Last edited by TomC; 01/12/2016 01:34 PM.
Tom
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#81793
01/12/2016 02:07 PM
01/12/2016 02:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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No kidding! My ferry proposal called for $5M equity to build a modern 6 boat fast ferry fleet. All it would require is a wee bit of cooperation between the 3 operators.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#81794
01/12/2016 02:49 PM
01/12/2016 02:49 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 896
SeaSeaRider
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Carol_Hill said: It sounds like he intends 'direct' to equal 'non stop' Yes. "The airline will be back, it is reported, with the endorsement of the Government to start direct flights later this year from Terrance B. Lettsome International Airport to Miami, Florida, USA, which is a 3-hour flight." From: http://www.virginislandsnewsonline.com/e...lights-to-miami
Rob
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: SeaSeaRider]
#81795
01/12/2016 03:00 PM
01/12/2016 03:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,022 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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Sounds like what he intended to say was non-stop and they don't know the difference.
Carol Hill
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: RonP]
#81798
01/12/2016 05:36 PM
01/12/2016 05:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 184 Philadelphia, PA
Bones
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Not only are the costs 1.5 to 2 times more then in the past, the frequency of flights are down. Had some friends wanting to join us in March and every flight from PHL to EIS was a overnight in SJU because the only connection to EIS, (1) at 5:30 pm was sold out and RT tickets were selling for $900.00. STT from PHL is not any better with most flights connecting in CLT or MIA.
Founder and Chair: Association of Amateur and Recreational Pirates (AARrrrrrrrrrrrP)
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: RonP]
#81799
01/12/2016 05:40 PM
01/12/2016 05:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 83,022 Central Florida!
Carol_Hill
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OK if you want nonstop flights from the US northeast, I think you will wait a LONG time for that.
Carol Hill
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#81800
01/12/2016 05:48 PM
01/12/2016 05:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 184 Philadelphia, PA
Bones
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Hey it's only a couple of hundred miles further than MIA. LOL. My point was the # of available connections from SJU.
Founder and Chair: Association of Amateur and Recreational Pirates (AARrrrrrrrrrrrP)
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Carol_Hill]
#81802
01/12/2016 07:17 PM
01/12/2016 07:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,861 Bradenton, FL
Winterstale
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Carol_Hill said: OK if you want nonstop flights from the US northeast, I think you will wait a LONG time for that. Exactly....and don't even get me started on how long it takes us to get down there from L.A....<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" /> This would be a welcome addition if it's not priced through the roof....
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Will_L]
#81804
01/12/2016 08:22 PM
01/12/2016 08:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,545 Here and There
rita_irvine
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Wonder what the code share situation is going to be. I can get from Seattle to Miami but not sure I want to gather bags and have to recheck on a non code share flight. Two round trip tickets are sure to be more than a connection thru SJU or STT
Rita It is better to be happy than it is to be right
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#81805
01/12/2016 09:01 PM
01/12/2016 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
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GeorgeC1 said: Man I wish they would put 7 million into the Ferry system! G Better they build a bridge.
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: Will_L]
#81807
01/13/2016 10:00 AM
01/13/2016 10:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 144 Georgia
notahippie
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Will_L said: We will see... If not more economical than STT via ferry ..and times are all important ...It had to be cost competitive This is what I was telling the bride this morning after I read the news. The Next Trip To the BVI spreadsheet shows that is more economical for us to fly to STT and take a ferry over the next day. Yeah, even tacking a single overnight stay in St. Thomas to each end of the vacation to account for ferry times is less expensive than connecting in SJU
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: notahippie]
#81808
01/13/2016 10:52 AM
01/13/2016 10:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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notahippie said:Will_L said: We will see... If not more economical than STT via ferry ..and times are all important ...It had to be cost competitive This is what I was telling the bride this morning after I read the news. The Next Trip To the BVI spreadsheet shows that is more economical for us to fly to STT and take a ferry over the next day. Yeah, even tacking a single overnight stay in St. Thomas to each end of the vacation to account for ferry times is less expensive than connecting in SJU Spreadsheets are wonderful... So land STT, get bags, get taxi, check in hotel, eat, sleep, get up, repack, check out, get taxi, ride to ferry, "do the ferry ticket and wait dance", ferry ride(joy for some, terror for others), customs and immigration tortola, get taxi, ride to destination more than 24 hours after most have left home. That is an awful lot of adventure and hassle for a family to get to Tortola. There is also a bunch of hidden variable costs most leave out of the "ferry dance" spreadsheet. Direct flight time from NYC(and other cities) to St. Lucia is 4.5 hours. http://www.moorings.com/destinations/caribbean/st-luciaThe BVI Government needs to work aggressively to address the hassles of ingress and egress. Two choices cut a deal to somehow bypassing the taxi industry with a integrated ferry terminal at STT or get on with a longer runway coupled with subsidized flights following the Bermuda model. The $7M BVI Air deal is for 86 passenger aircraft or +/-30,000 heads if flown full 365 days a year. Three (3) flights a day would not get you to 100,000 passengers in an out. Tortola needs daily flights from Atlanta, MIA, New York, Charlotte, Chicago, and DC at least. The MIA-BVI Air option will be a boost for some business travel. The flight will be 2.5 hours for the business investment community resident in Miami/Coral Gables. The BVI Air will not be a cheap seat Southwest knockoff business plan.
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: SuburbanDharma]
#81810
01/13/2016 02:01 PM
01/13/2016 02:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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I am not sure this is going to fly. (pun intended)
The aircraft in the plan is the 85 to 100 passenger Avro RJ. The RJ series ended production 15 years ago. They were intended for feeder route into urban airports with short runways and noise restrictions. When they were built that required 4 engines which means higher operating cost; high fuel consumption and maintenance. Maximum range is MIA/EIS at best. Their only attraction is that the older ones are cheap to lease which balances most of the higher operating cost.
While the scale of the tourism market of Bermuda and the BVI is remarkably similar, it is impossible to compare air service of Tortola with Bermuda. First off the airport was built by the US military as Kindley AFB/NAS Bermuda and maintained by the USAF until 1995. The only capital investment Bermuda made was in the terminal building. The debt service alone for the Beef Island extension will be almost $1 million per month. If total deplaning doubled over the 87,000 level before AE pulled out landing fees would have to average $70 per arrival just to service the mortgage. Add to that departure and security fees and you are bumping into $100 before any actual airfare. The STT route will always remain the least expensive route. The ferry service is the weak link.
Bermuda cannot be reached by ferry so all of the 224,000 overnight visitors in 2014 came by air. In contrast, in 2014 approximately 170,000 BVI visitors came by ferry. Simple logic shound indicate where any government investment should be made.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: warren460]
#81813
01/13/2016 04:36 PM
01/13/2016 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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"it is impossible to compare air service of Tortola with Bermuda"
That may be true but it is what it is. Across the Caribbean islands are improving their air services to allow visitors and residents easy ingress and egress. That is much more than just price. There are more and more who will not go to a place that they cannot stand up and directly go to the airport and fly back to home or work. Finance and business is much more complicated. Investors demand access for lawyers and outside auditors. Any type of ferry will not cut it for some travelers. Cuba already has +/-3 Million visitors a year. As Cuba comes online and the DR grows some markets will be left way behind. Many get that and are raising the quality of their offers. Just like when Walmart and Home Depot showed up there will be big losers, some survivors, and some winners. The BVI and/or the joint USVI/BVI will need to pick a niche they will adapt to. Maybe St. Thomas builds a massive hurricane proof harbor that markets to the bareboat industry? Some joint easing of the C&I would be a plus. Just as a no C&I ferry terminal at STT would be a plus. Get off your plane ride to the government contracted ferry where your bags are already tagged to and get dropped at St. John, Tortola, or Virgin Gorda.
Shortly St. Vincent will open their $240 Million 9,000 foot runway. East Coast US flight times will be less than five hours.
“Building the airport involved the astounding removal of three mountains, 134 homes, a church, a cemetery and the filling of two valleys,” said Prime Minister Dr. Honourable Ralph Gonsalves
Cuba by the way has 24 runways greater than 5,000 feet.
I suspect many in Tortola are listening and find themselves trapped in a future for their kids they do not like and certainly cannot control without a competitive runway. Sadly St. Thomas see the BVI as the competition. Note St. Croix is starving out there.
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: StormJib]
#81814
01/13/2016 06:59 PM
01/13/2016 06:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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"Note St. Croix is starving out there. " Which goes to prove that having a 10,000 ft runway is not a key to the tourist market. Unlike the ghosts of the 1919 Black Socks, if you build it they will not necessarily come.
The other Caribbean islands are not within 25 miles of an established airport with connections to most US markets. EIS will always be in competition with STT and STT will always have a significant advantage in pricing,scheduling to more destinations and ground service facilities. The BVI is the final destination of only about 20% of the STT arrivals but over 60% of the total BVI arrivals. More than half of the visitors to the BVI will continue to come through STT no matter what they do at EIS so it would behoove the BVI government to regulate and improve the ferry service.
That is not as difficult as it may seem. Unlike most ferry services the Charlotte Amalie/Tortola route does not need an operating subsidy. It needs for the 3 players to form a co-operative, about $5 million in equity, government underwriting of financing 6 new 90 passenger fast cats and most of all, STRICT REGULATION and OVERSITE.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: warren460]
#81817
01/13/2016 08:24 PM
01/13/2016 08:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,999 Macon, Georgia
GlennA
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When I win the Powerball tonight I will fix it. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. - Mark Twain
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: cessnaflyr2]
#81819
01/13/2016 11:27 PM
01/13/2016 11:27 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 463 Chicago
YachtReprise
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cessnaflyr2 said: Carol..........If they put on the same beautiful DC-3's that they flew in the 70's sign me up! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Clapping.gif" alt="" /> The planes were clean, on time and great staff! Compared to the rickety old 727's of Eastern that we used to fly to San Juan! Ohman, I miss those DC3!
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Re: New "direct" flights from MIA to EIS coming
[Re: GlennA]
#81820
01/13/2016 11:43 PM
01/13/2016 11:43 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 463 Chicago
YachtReprise
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GlennA said: "Note St. Croix is starving out there. " Which goes to prove that having a 10,000 ft runway is not a key to the tourist market. Unlike the ghosts of the 1919 Black Socks, if you build it they will not necessarily come.
The other Caribbean islands are not within 25 miles of an established airport with connections to most US markets. EIS will always be in competition with STT and STT will always have a significant advantage in pricing,scheduling to more destinations and ground service facilities. The BVI is the final destination of only about 20% of the STT arrivals but over 60% of the total BVI arrivals. More than half of the visitors to the BVI will continue to come through STT no matter what they do at EIS so it would behoove the BVI government to regulate and improve the ferry service.
That is not as difficult as it may seem. Unlike most ferry services the Charlotte Amalie/Tortola route does not need an operating subsidy. It needs for the 3 players to form a co-operative, about $5 million in equity, government underwriting of financing 6 new 90 passenger fast cats and most of all, STRICT REGULATION and OVERSITE. I agree completely with Dr. Glenn...except... St Croix was on an impossibly successful tourism trajectory in the late '60s and early '70s, and then came the 'Fountain Valley Massacre' in 1972. 1972, for godsakes! And it has NEVER recovered!! No one younger than 25 even knows what the heck Fountain Valley was! The point? St. Croix is an anomaly. God willing, such an event will never occur in the BVI.
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