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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: TackingAg]
#87285
02/20/2016 11:18 AM
02/20/2016 11:18 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109 Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
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I am a Moorings owner. There is an active Moorings owner group on Yahoo that you can asked to join. You can read about the experiences of real owners. Although, I am not sure they will allow a non-owner to join. In addition, you should also read the postings on the cruisersforum.com (use the search function on the site before asking any questions)
TrackingAg's response is accurate. you have to do the math to look at it purely from a financial point of view. Then look at it from a personal point of view. Keep in mind two thoughts: A) nothing in business is ever "too good to be true". You are missing something. B) Why doesn't Tui/Moorings finance the boats themselves?
Take your time. They are always looking for new owners. I suspect the further you get from a boat show event the better the prices get. Last year, I was offered the lowest price (that I saw) during the summertime. It was lower than any "boat-show special".
Most people determine it is a fair deal if you can really use all of your owners time. If you can only take 3 weeks of sailing vacations a year - then it doesn't make sense. The real benefit of Moorings over smaller outfits is the ability to user your owners time all over the world. Last year I used my time in the BVI, Croatia, and French Polynesia. I sailed about 7 weeks in total.
s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: sail2wind]
#87292
02/20/2016 02:48 PM
02/20/2016 02:48 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109 Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
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sail2wind said: When we looked at Mooring, the thing we liked least was, for the first 5 years it is not your boat. You can not store personal items. The alleged 12 week usage is more like 3 or 4 weeks unless your chartering in hurricane season, as they are units of vacation, not weeks. Very True. Some owners rent storage space on the island. We just haul a couple of big bags since it doesn't cost us anything. The owner's time is allocated in "points". In high-season a day is two points (Dec 15 - April 15 in BVIs). We prefer the shoulder seasons since the sailing areas are less crowded. So we didn't mind using "less expensive" time. One of the items that is often overlooked in discussing the Moorings program is the phaseout process. Included in the contract is an agreement to repair or replace any broken or damaged items at the end of the contract. You hire your own surveyor to generate the list of items to be repaired. This generally ensures you have a boat in decent condition after the 5 years is up. This doesn't make your boat brand new or take the hours off your engines. But it helps fix it up. Of course a big down-side of owning any charter boat is the negligence and poor seamanship of the charter crews. Several Mooring boats are run aground every year.
s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: snowdog]
#87294
02/20/2016 09:01 PM
02/20/2016 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
Kryssa
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 296
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Hey Snowdog - Any chance I could get an invite to that Moorings owners group? My husband and I have discussed owning a boat through the Moorings program and I'd love to hear what it's like from those that have.
Thanks, Kryssa email - blake at ods dot org
Last edited by Kryssa; 02/20/2016 09:01 PM.
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: YachtReprise]
#87297
02/20/2016 11:17 PM
02/20/2016 11:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 144 We come from the land of ice a...
Subaqua
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 144
We come from the land of ice a...
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YachtReprise said: Here's a thought. And just another thought to consider. ... You will pay about 1/3 of the cost new, and you will definitely be in the driver's seat at purchase time... If you could find me a nice catamaran 5 years old for 1/3 the price of new.. I'm all in. Are you sure you didn't mean closer to 2/3 the price?
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: Kryssa]
#87299
02/21/2016 11:50 AM
02/21/2016 11:50 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109 Bozeman / Minneapolis
snowdog
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 109
Bozeman / Minneapolis
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Kryssa said: Hey Snowdog - Any chance I could get an invite to that Moorings owners group? My husband and I have discussed owning a boat through the Moorings program and I'd love to hear what it's like from those that have.
Thanks, Kryssa email - blake at ods dot org You have to ask the group moderator on Yahoo. I have nothing to do with granting access.
s/v Snow Dog - Leopard 46
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: snowdog]
#87300
02/21/2016 09:11 PM
02/21/2016 09:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Been a sunsail/moorings owner for about 5 years now. One thing I have learned is that when this question is asked, the opinions are all over the place. Best advice I can give you is that you need to figure out what you are looking to get out of the program and see that your expectations match reality. As far as that is concerned, the Moorings will give you the straight details with one possible exception - the final value of the boat - that's a big variable. And unless they are willing to guarantee buying it back at a specific number, I'd plan on it being less then you own - at least if you go by their numbers. Best advice I can give is to go with as short a mortgage as possible, largest down payment possible or pay extra on every payment, or if possible, all of the above Big plus for us was that we rarely used our boat or exact sister boat - we primarily upgraded to catamarans (we own a monohull) so we got great value out of it. As far as the 12 weeks - they are in points. You use double the points in the high season, so it can be less then 12 weeks. Moorings can provide you all the info on this though as well as upgrades..etc.
Matt
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: Deepcut]
#87302
03/25/2016 09:59 AM
03/25/2016 09:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,530 Ya never know...
HillsideView
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,530
Ya never know...
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Be interesting to see where prices are for boats coming out of charter in the next 18-48 months. Was on island for the month of February and there was no shortage of boats out on charter. Drove by the Moorings several times and was stunned by the number of boats they had sitting there. It was pretty obvious there is an overabundance of boats.
My foot fits right into my shoe and my shoe will fit right into your...
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: HillsideView]
#87303
03/25/2016 10:28 AM
03/25/2016 10:28 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,956 St. John, USVI
RickG
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,956
St. John, USVI
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There are lots of opportunities to by boats out of the charter fleets for less than elsewhere. I'm seeing phased out Moorings boats on YachtWorld in Annapolis for about what they get listed in the BVIs. They don't turn over rapidly, but they are listed for a good bit less than a non-charter boat. The Moorings boats are built to their spec to be less expensive than the standard production boats. You need to check the details to understand what you're buying with your particular model.
The Moorings phaseout process has a good reputation. They fixed all the items that our previous owner pointed out in their survey, including some that were relatively minor. A year later, we found major items in our survey that the previous owner paid to have repaired, including new spars. A year and half into our ownership, we replaced a transmission with 3500 hours after multiple repairs due to charter abuse.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Grenada
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Re: The moorings yacht ownership
[Re: HillsideView]
#87304
03/25/2016 10:35 AM
03/25/2016 10:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,100 Maryland
Twanger
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,100
Maryland
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I think people overlook a very important point. To make this work you are committing all your vacations for the next 5 years (or more) to this boat. Said another way, you are pre-paying for your vacations for the next 5 years whether you go on them or not. My $0.02 - You have to be really solid with this concept to go any further.
You should consider your health in this decision, and the health of your significant other, or whoever else you are counting on to join your adventures.
If you or spouse hurts their back shoveling snow and you can't sail for an entire year (or ever again), how's that gonna work out for you?
We have been happy chartering 10-14 days a year for the last 32 years. We love it. We have skipped lean years when kids were in college. Now we could even see going to 30 days a year. That's what I consider as roughly the break even point for the rent/buy decision.
So the trade-off for us at 30 charter days a year is balancing flexibility of lifestyle, risk of not being able to use the boat (i.e. paying for a vacation I can't take), and the opportunity cost of tying up the money. Remember that as part of this equation you need to add travel costs getting to your boat: hotels, rental cars, flights, taxis, airport parking fees, etc.
Your risk aversion factors in. I'm personally risk-adverse, and having a nest-egg in the bank to cover an unforseen crisis helps me sleep better at night. Others may not have this issue, or have more 'disposable' capital so their risk is covered.
Finally... there's an intangible that is hard (impossible?) to quantify. Owning a boat in the Caribbean may well mean a lot to you. It can generate a sense of pride. A sense of commitment and belonging to a place you love. That may be worth factoring into the equation somehow. It's a person choice and only you can answer that question.
So far we've been very happy to charter every year, and keep our money in the bank where it has grown and helps pay for our next charter. Perhaps when I finally retire this balance will change.
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