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Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter #89380
03/08/2016 04:00 PM
03/08/2016 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 285
Orlando, FL
mmchaplin Offline OP
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mmchaplin  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 285
Orlando, FL
We are not professional sailors hence why we find an experienced captain and crew. We are at Cooper anchored at Haulover Bay. Saw a boat adjacent to the National Parks mooring ball with anchor down in coral. Captain let them know this is a no no. So, they tried to pull up anchor and hauled up a large piece of coral after 20 minutes of back and forth and some crunchy sounds. They then made several attempts at the mooring ball and finally made it. Now trying to figure out how to remove the large piece of coral off the anchor and sure they are our neighbors for tonight. Hope they don't try anything else stupid or injur more coral, themselves or others!!


Cheers,

Marcia


BVI Sponsors
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: mmchaplin] #89381
03/08/2016 04:10 PM
03/08/2016 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,861
Bradenton, FL
Winterstale Offline
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Winterstale  Offline
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Posts: 5,861
Bradenton, FL
<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />OFFS


[Linked Image]

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: Winterstale] #89382
03/08/2016 04:34 PM
03/08/2016 04:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
salica Offline
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salica  Offline
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Posts: 1,199
Devon, UK
Reporting the name of the vessel to Horizon would be a good citizen. They could be given some guidance at the very least, and also check the boat for damage. As an owner I would want witnesses to report this. Send them an email or phone. Contacts should be easily available,

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: mmchaplin] #89383
03/08/2016 05:02 PM
03/08/2016 05:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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StormJib  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
Quote
mmchaplin said:
We are not professional sailors hence why we find an experienced captain and crew. We are at Cooper anchored at Haulover Bay. Saw a boat adjacent to the National Parks mooring ball with anchor down in coral. Captain let them know this is a no no. So, they tried to pull up anchor and hauled up a large piece of coral after 20 minutes of back and forth and some crunchy sounds. They then made several attempts at the mooring ball and finally made it. Now trying to figure out how to remove the large piece of coral off the anchor and sure they are our neighbors for tonight. Hope they don't try anything else stupid or injur more coral, themselves or others!!


Pictures with the boat name?

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: StormJib] #89384
03/08/2016 10:03 PM
03/08/2016 10:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,019
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GeorgeC1  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,019
GA/NC
The national park balls are not for overnights either. If this were reported to the BVI government it's a huge fine to anchor on coral.
G

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: GeorgeC1] #89385
03/09/2016 06:25 AM
03/09/2016 06:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 285
Orlando, FL
mmchaplin Offline OP
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mmchaplin  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 285
Orlando, FL
Was reported to BVI government. We have pics and they left soon after. Will see if the one pic I took shows name of boat.


Cheers,

Marcia


Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: mmchaplin] #89386
03/09/2016 08:51 AM
03/09/2016 08:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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StormJib  Offline
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Posts: 1,049
The real answer here is to follow the USVI lead and dramatically limit even eliminate anchoring. There are multiple BVI research studies going back to 1994 and before of the damage done by anchors and chains. The most compelling is the evidence that in the areas where people anchor the coral coverage is half that of the areas where there is little or no anchoring. In just the last few decades coral coverage in the areas frequented by anchoring have fallen from over 30 percent to 17 percent or less. The first step in the healing process would fix the issue above. In any area where you can see moorings. Anchoring must be prohibited. We hear and see so many BVI job creation projects. The installation, care, and enforcement of moorings should be project one. I would go so far as to include moorings in the cruising permit. There could be "Rangers" inspecting moorings and cruising permits in place of what we experience today.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: mmchaplin] #89387
03/09/2016 09:06 AM
03/09/2016 09:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
S
sail445 Offline
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sail445  Offline
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Posts: 3,003
If you want to talk coral damage check out the areas where the ferries traveling at 20K smash into the corals and wipeout a good 500 feet of coral.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: sail445] #89388
03/09/2016 09:15 AM
03/09/2016 09:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,152
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Posts: 2,152
Ontario, Canada
Or the recent cruise ship reef fiasco in Grand Cayman


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: warren460] #89389
03/09/2016 09:24 AM
03/09/2016 09:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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StormJib  Offline
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Posts: 1,049
We stopped giving our money(credit cards) to the ferries along time ago along with laying anchors and chain anywhere where a mooring system can be found. All across the Carribean cruise ship and boat anchoring is being limited and better controlled. The BVI is one of the most densely used boating areas. Planning with science and business is long overdue. Just because someone else liters does not justify the rest of us littering. A well organized mooring system with zero tolerance for anchoring would do more than just stop anchor chain damage. The well dispersed moorings would spread out the organic biology we dump over each day from the boats that keep getting bigger. The coral studies all reference the damaging cluster effect anchoring fosters.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: StormJib] #89390
03/09/2016 10:42 AM
03/09/2016 10:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 167
Other
letsgosailing Offline
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letsgosailing  Offline
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Posts: 167
Other
Such a shame.
Better briefings from the charter companies may help.. or perhaps a licensed captain is required on each vessel.
Sitting at Leverick bay watching boat after boat run over mooring balls, trying to tie to them. (Pretty windy, but if you know what you are doing, it is easy! 2 boats just approached the buoys from upwind (heading downwind)
Not much antifoul left on one of the boats! (as the buoy dragged under the boat, past the keel, and popped up the other side.
Don't be gentle, It's a RENTAL!!


Capt. Russell
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: StormJib] #89391
03/09/2016 01:02 PM
03/09/2016 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sail2wind  Offline
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Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
Quote
StormJib said:
The real answer here is to follow the USVI lead and dramatically limit even eliminate anchoring. There are multiple BVI research studies going back to 1994 and before of the damage done by anchors and chains. The most compelling is the evidence that in the areas where people anchor the coral coverage is half that of the areas where there is little or no anchoring. In just the last few decades coral coverage in the areas frequented by anchoring have fallen from over 30 percent to 17 percent or less. The first step in the healing process would fix the issue above. In any area where you can see moorings. Anchoring must be prohibited. We hear and see so many BVI job creation projects. The installation, care, and enforcement of moorings should be project one. I would go so far as to include moorings in the cruising permit. There could be "Rangers" inspecting moorings and cruising permits in place of what we experience today.


What about sand bottoms where there is no coral?

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: sail2wind] #89392
03/09/2016 01:14 PM
03/09/2016 01:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
SuburbanDharma Offline
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SuburbanDharma  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
Quote
sail2wind said:
Quote
StormJib said:
The real answer here is to follow the USVI lead and dramatically limit even eliminate anchoring. There are multiple BVI research studies going back to 1994 and before of the damage done by anchors and chains. The most compelling is the evidence that in the areas where people anchor the coral coverage is half that of the areas where there is little or no anchoring. In just the last few decades coral coverage in the areas frequented by anchoring have fallen from over 30 percent to 17 percent or less. The first step in the healing process would fix the issue above. In any area where you can see moorings. Anchoring must be prohibited. We hear and see so many BVI job creation projects. The installation, care, and enforcement of moorings should be project one. I would go so far as to include moorings in the cruising permit. There could be "Rangers" inspecting moorings and cruising permits in place of what we experience today.


What about sand bottoms where there is no coral?


It would be hard (and not necessarily a good idea) to eliminate it, since there are plenty of places to anchor safely & efficiently.
But with no one to monitor or administrate a program like this, there's no way to enforce any of it, whether it's a good idea or not. Clearly the rules that are already in place aren't being enforced.

I get upset when I see snorkelers stand up on rocks or coral, I'd be apoplectic if I saw this. But it's true that briefings need to be much clearer, as in, "DO NOT ANCHOR IN CORAL. DO NOT TOUCH CORAL. DO NOT PEE OR EMPTY YOUR HOLDING TANKS NEAR CORAL." We've only been visiting the BVI for 8 years & I've seen the coral deteriorate badly in many places. The Caves at Norman Island are practically devoid of any living coral now, it's heart wrenching.


If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning. [Linked Image]
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: SuburbanDharma] #89393
03/09/2016 05:14 PM
03/09/2016 05:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,019
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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GeorgeC1  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,019
GA/NC
I will point out that the worst examples of poor anchoring that I have witnessed over the years have been crewed not bare boats. I think the crewed boats feel pressure to give their guests certain experiences even when moorings are full. Most bare boaters seem very mindful of coral.
G

Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter #89394
03/09/2016 06:40 PM
03/09/2016 06:40 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 329
Staunton, VA
socamon Offline
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socamon  Offline
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Posts: 329
Staunton, VA
Yes, I have seen crewed charters breaking all kinds of rules: anchoring in coral, over nighting on park balls, anchoring in mooring fields, etc.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: socamon] #89395
03/10/2016 09:11 AM
03/10/2016 09:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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StormJib  Offline
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Posts: 1,049
With 1100 to 1500 boats regularly operating in the BVI and boats that are getting bigger by every measure the only practical policies are those that move to zero tolerance for any anchoring. As the boat numbers grow the percentage that are not skilled or through perceived entitlement think the rules do not apply to them grow as well. I suspect alcohol also comes into play. A public mooring only policy allows for planning and control of the density of boats in each area and would force the spreading out of the fleet along with the elimination of the fleet from any truly sensitive areas. To those that say "Hay! I only anchor on clear sandy bottoms!" Maybe that is where the mooring(s) should be or dispersed into mitigate the toxic plume created in most of our anchorages. Can this all be done today NO! But, the powers that be could approach this island by island. To those of us that are highly skilled and believe we are always harmless in our anchoring practices. Our very public anchoring practices encourages others who are less skilled and less caring. If you are concerned with doing your part for the reefs? Use the public mooring infrastructure along with caring social pressure encouraging others to do the same. The BVI is the laggard in highly traveled area when it comes to mandating the use of moorings. We should not be supporting or encouraging that inaction. The start of this thread is one of hundreds of examples that happen each year when anchoring by boats is tolerated.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: StormJib] #89396
03/10/2016 09:47 AM
03/10/2016 09:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 91
The Blue Mountains
M
macpete Offline
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macpete  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 91
The Blue Mountains
Completely agree with trying to keep the coral safe. And yes, some crewed charters are pretty bad offenders, anchoring in the midst of a mooring field too close to a few boats. For the folks on their own boats, $30 a night for a mooring gets tired pretty quick when we're in the area for extended periods. Needs to be some sort of compromise.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: macpete] #89397
03/10/2016 10:05 AM
03/10/2016 10:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
SuburbanDharma Offline
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SuburbanDharma  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
Who is going to monitor & enforce these policies? Will they also be liable for moorings that break & boats that are damaged as a result?

And what does one do when one's boat is larger than the 60' maximum size for mooring balls?

Nice idea, but unfortunately impractical.


If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning. [Linked Image]
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: macpete] #89398
03/10/2016 10:06 AM
03/10/2016 10:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
S
StormJib Offline
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StormJib  Offline
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Posts: 1,049
$30 is very reasonable when it comes to boat parking. Nantucket is $75 a night if you can get at reservation. Catalina in $35 and up depending on boat size a site. Whatever the cost is I would include the charges and fees in the cruising permits. In the place of the nightly parade of toll collections. I would use on the water jobs and resources to inspect and repair the mooring and checks for cruising permits that could be as simple as a sticker on the hull.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: StormJib] #89399
03/10/2016 10:15 AM
03/10/2016 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
SuburbanDharma Offline
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SuburbanDharma  Offline
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Posts: 3,321
Charlotte, NC
A STICKER on the HULL??? BITE YOUR TONGUE!! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/hammer.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Laugh.gif" alt="" />


If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning. [Linked Image]
Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: SuburbanDharma] #89400
03/10/2016 10:17 AM
03/10/2016 10:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,678
An island state of mind
tradewinds Offline
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tradewinds  Offline
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Posts: 5,678
An island state of mind
The mooring fees are a source of income for a lot of people. There's no chance in hell they'd give it up to have it included in the cruising permit.

Re: Damaging coral and the Horizon yacht charter [Re: SuburbanDharma] #89401
03/10/2016 10:19 AM
03/10/2016 10:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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maytrix  Offline
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
I think a nightly charge paid in the mooring field is fine for the charterer. For the long term cruiser though, that doesn't work - some sort of monthly or yearly permit would make more sense and it simply could be something that couldn't be applied to charter boats, private boats only.


Matt

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