TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands What do you look for on a charter boat?

Some of you already know we have a boat in Moorings and this fall we've be moving her from St. Lucia to the BVI. She's a 43' 3 cabin/3 head Beneteau Oceanis with shore power A/C and all the basics the moorings boats have.

I know what things I'd like to see on the boat, just wondering what others look for as a must have or a big plus to have when looking at boats. Trying to see what we can add that will help make our boat more desirable and perhaps set it apart from some of the others.

Genset is one thing I'd really like to add, but cost may prohibit that at this time.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

We charter the newest and largest boat we can find at this stage. If one item were going to make a difference for us it would be a watermaker. If we were in a location, Maine for and example, were new boats were not the norm. I would want to know when all interior fabrics were last swapped out. Not all five year old boats are created equal.

Does the boat look and feel fresh, clean, and new'ish or tired and dingy? Maybe good bright pictures can help with that first impression.

The voice of experience tells me that whatever you put on board can get trashed as people really don't care. Maybe you can put some removable items onboard for your own use and lock them away in your absence.

Genset, A/C, updated electronics, watermaker, well maintained and clean vessel with clear and concise operations manuels

A/C with Genset.

We owned an older boat for many years in the Northeast, and are very comfortable with a boat that has seen it's share of use. On our trips to the BVI, we have always chartered older monohulls from 2nd and 3rd tier companies, as the look of the boat hasn't been very important to us, as long as all of the systems are in good working order, and we could keep the cost down to enable us to go more frequently.

On our last trip this past July, we brought our kids for the first time (6 & 9yo). After returning from our 11day charter, I asked everyone, "What is the number one thing you would change on our boat for the next time we go to the BVI?" (Size, Catamaran, A/C, newer, etc.) The unanimous response (from the kids and wife) was "A/C" (and not just when we were docked for the 2 out of 11 nights of the trip).

And I tend to agree with them. I am getting tired of the 'Caribbean fire drill' of having to close/open the hatches 2-3 times a night. I feel like I will get a much better sleep, which over the course of 11-14days really makes a difference. That said, due to our work schedules, we always go in July/August months, which obviously contributes to our opinion. Regardless, the next time we charter, we will probably almost double our usual budget to move up to a larger boat, with the sole reason being A/C.

Are you phasing out? I phased out and moved my Jenneau 36i from St. Lucia to the BVI last November. PM me if you want to hear of my experience with survey, delivery, etc.

Here at home I really like having a good stereo that has Bluetooth. It's fun to be able to use everybody's ipods or whatever to listen to different tunes/playlists without cords. Silly I guess.

Electric heads seem to be a big hit on charters when we take other people. They hate pumping.

I'm not a fan of AC, but then again, I only charter in the winter.

AC with Generator.

In low season when we're most likely to be chartering the boats available to us within our size and budget that have AC+Generator may be $500/week different in price from one without. And that's an easy decision vs. grumpy crew because they didn't get enough sleep.

I think generator and A/C is a requirement for a lot of people for the Caribbean - including my family. We're on vacation from the comparably chilly Pacific Northwest and want to be comfortable, or at least able to cool off at our leisure. The genset also provides plenty of electricity for all of our devices and keeps the boat nice and charged up. I do understand that they are expensive and can be a maintenance nightmare though.

Aside from that, one of the first things my wife asks about when chartering is if the heads are electric flushing. She hates pumping the heads and with three kids it is much easier to just push a button. She also likes it when boats have some of the more common small appliances like a blender and regular toaster.

For me I want a boat that has functioning and somewhat current electronics, sails and rigging in good shape, systems that are reasonably easy to operate and make sense and just an overall fun and fast boat (at least relative to other charter boats).

That said, all of the above are nice extras and we would still charter if they weren't available. However, they are things we look for and that will persuade us to charter one boat over another. When it comes down to it we usually just try to find the newest boat we can that ticks the most of those boxes.

A/C +Genset

40 to 45' mono with in mast furling sail, gen, a/c, 2 queen berths, two ensuite heads. The new chine on the Beneteau is great. Add that to the list..

Matt, I KNOW you like a/c....so another vote for Genset <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> and a fishing rod holder and a nice grill to cook the fish on! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

To answer MrEzgoin, we are phasing out.. I'll send a PM.

To everyone else, thanks for all the input. I'll comment on some items as we've thought about some and some aren't feasible.

Genset - I'd love a genset and if we had all the money in the world, I'd install it immediately (actually, we'd buy a catamaran, but you get the point <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />)

Watermaker - isn't going to happen without a genset. And I'm not sure there's enough room on the boat even if we did. Space for a genset is tight too, but doable.

Stereo - After our final trip upgrading to a moorings 4000 cat, this is something I'd like to replace - bluetooth with controls by the helm are what I'd.

Electric heads - I've looked at them as I think both my wife and I would love to at least swap the head out in the forward cabin. Eventually we'd probably swap them all out, but I figure having at least one, whoever organizes the trip can make use of that luxury

In mast furling isn't something we're even remotely considering at this point. I'd probably go with in boom anyway so you can still reef, but its not in the budget at this point.

Updated electronics is something we're almost done with fortunately. All the original instruments failed at some point and were replaced with newer raymarine instruments. Only one unit wasn't replaced yet.

So again, thanks for all the input. Keep it coming if anyone has anything new. So far, seems like genset for a/c is really the big item that could be a deal breaker for some. As beerman knows, I really like having it - I can do without, but just sleep much more comfortable with it! Our stops will likely be at places where we can plug in anyway for the near term as Conner (our 17 month old) loves pools!

There you go! You need a pool on the boat - that would definitely set it apart. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Joy.gif" alt="" />

There's a pool all around the boat Conner actually sees any body of water and says POOOOL!!! He wakes up, looks out the windows and says pool! Sees a big huge puddle in a parking lot.. that's a pool! LOL

We have added many items aboard our boat to make her more convienent and more comfortable but the charter company is reluctant to advertise all of the items. The reasoning and I agree is you wouldn't want someone to choose your boat due to one of these items and it fail and not be repairable or replaceable. I'm not talking about the major items (Air Con, Generator, chart plotter, etc) but some of the smaller items. For example, we have a 120 liter cooler, custom made cover over the cooktop giving you more prep space, silicone hot pad/drying rack, 12" Android Tablet with Navionics Boating App, waterproof mattress covers, memory foam pillows, Rod holder (thanks Orion!), towel hooks in heads and cabins, Navionics Platinum chip in chart plotter... All of these items may set our boat apart from other 39's but potential charter clients would not know about them until they arrive.

Good luck and have fun,

Tony

Lots of cold storage space for us is always welcome.

What about solar cells? Does nobody enjoys the silence when not to have run the engine every day?

Mine starts with modern navigation electronics, then gen set + ac, then a large (good) freezer, then watermaker

Rita,

A in mast furling sail can make some boats look a little better. That does not outweigh the risk of catastrophic failure on a lightly crewed or inexperienced crewed charter boat. There are just too many ways that a in mast solution can end up jammed or inoperable to the point where only someone hoisted up the mast can cut the main off the mast. Point two there is no way to put battens on a furling sail and the sail must be made differently to allow reliable furling. The result all in mast furling mainsail poorly. There are very good reasons you do not find them on The Moorings boats.

They do make some boats look better and they do appear to offer greater control at times until the moment you lose all control with no one skilled to scale the mast and cut the beast down. the only prudent charter solution is the common lazy jack rig where anyone can simply release the halyard and the main will work its own way down.

Even the best crews can experience a failure out of sight inside that mast or find a sail that has changed shape enough that it will suddenly no longer enter the mast. If it is blowing that day. Then what?

If you simple must have furling then in boom is the way to go. Releasing the halyard will still get the main down when disaster strikes and you can still use a full proper sail with battens.

Sorry for the unsolicited dribble.

There are now several options like this for kids and drinkers of all sizes....

I have a little experience in this so I will take a shot.

I assume your boat has dockside air. The genset is high on the list for a lot of people. Having said that it will cost you at least fifteen thousand dollars to put one in right it could run as high as twenty thousand. That is likely not a price tag you want to pay on a boat that is already five years old. It would only make sense if you plan to keep the boat past charter and want it.

So taking that off the table. The first two things I would do is add solar and make sure the batteries are fresh. A three to four hundred watt solar array will make your boat almost energy independent. Your batteries will last longer and your guests will be happier. From there I would clean up the refrigeration compressor and coils. This is the big drain on power in your boat. If there is any sign of failure in the fridge then buy a new compressor and evaporator. Go up one size and get the BD 50 compressor and a larger evaporator. Then I would get a good Carel or similar digital controller for the fridge. We did this on de Life and I can go days without starting an engine. Your systems are almost identical.

Next is the stereo. It has to be blue tooth compatible. Assuming you have newer Raymarine you can buy a fusion stereo that will network and can be controlled by your plotter outside. Buy the BT 200 blue tooth adapter and a nema 2000 compatible stereo. While you are at this add several usb charging ports that looks like a cigarette lighter plug bus is actually a dual USB. Most of the inverter run time it for charging devices that run on USB plugs. Also look at your interior lights. Buy new LED fixtures or bulbs. Also change out the anchor light for LED, we actually changed all of our NAV lights for LED.


Down the road think sails. Your five year old sails will be nearing the end of their life. So is the rest of your canvas. By year 7 or 8 they will all be toast so budget for that now. The Caribbean sun and 15 to 20 weeks of charter annually takes its toll.

Tony, I did a lot of what you mention on one of the charter boats I owned. You will find that anything not firmly bolted down will take wings and fly. Your nice stuff will migrate to other boats or just go away. Charters show up and see things they want on the boat next door and move them. Other items like chart plotter chips grow legs and leave. If your charter company does not already do it I recommend you ask them to pull your chip out after every charter and issue it to the next charter in the boat brief. Rod holders will be gone fast unless every boat in the fleet has them.
G

Thanks Jay. As you and sunbvi mention - solar is something I want to add. We'll check on the other stuff you mention as well.

Genset is something we want to do and we'll look at pricing options - we'll probably wait until the boat is in Newport RI (where it will spend summers) and see about having it done there. We do intend to use the boat full time ourselves in the future, so genset will be something we will want for ourselves too.

Our raymarine unit is newer, so I think the fusion stereo should work fine - I had looked into this a little. Newer moorings cat we were on had it and I really liked it.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great input!

I have been sailing mostly older wooden boats as a professional Captain for decades so now being retired when I want to go sailing I charter.
I want a monohull, I want good newer running rigging that is well set up for reefing, lazyjacks, block positioning, well designed roller furling headsails,and enough prespliced docklines and fenders in a good locker.
I want a cockpit I can stretch out and lay down in with a dodger and bimini, enough awning available to stay dry on a rainy week.
A clean accessible engine space and more than adequate spares and tools aboard. With a clear maintenance manual and one I don't have to tear up the floorboards or beds to get to easily and perhaps quickly, with a light in there too. Good access to impellers, filters and daily engine checks, I have learned through experience that watching the engine running on the morning startup is maybe the most important 5 min. I can do to see problems. A vacuum gauge on the fuel filter is a bonus.
I want the power systems to be adequate easy to moniter and manage.
Good water pressure' adequate tankage good working heads and showers.
I need good galley equipment with all the needs for cooking and dining in comfort, a propane stove with fiddles and waist belt and a real BBQ aft.,comfortable bunks and bedding, good cockpit cushions, cold efficient top loading refrigeration, a cockpit cooler for icing down drinks, good solid handholds below and on deck, strong stanchions and lifelines, a good boarding ladder, an ondeck aft shower, a very good dry dinghy properly equipped with a spare shearpin and sparkplug and an anchor and bag for PFD's.
An anchor winch with chain rode, a salt water washdown forward is a bonus, at least one spare anchor not buried in the bilge, an auto bilge pump with an alarm, a hand operated bilge pump in the cockpit.
A cruising guide, paper charts, a depth sounder at the helm, a lead line aboard and at least a hand held GPS.
Good lighting and fans in the cabins, spreader mounted deck light and a cockpit light that allows for dining. All the Nav lights must work, a clearly marked breaker panel, a list of all through hulls with proper bungs at hand, a vhf close enough to the helmsman to be used underway.
Dry tight hatches, windsock,hammock and proper man overboard system. A sturdy bottle opener in the cockpit for my Heineken is appreciated a corkscrew is mandatory.
If I am going across the Anegada Passage there is a much more detailed list but for a week or 2 I want a clean, well found properly maintained vessel that I can enjoy sailing.
Your 'wants' may vary.

Exciting "extras" that would push it over the top for me are things like
- electric heads
- bluetooth
- watermaker that actually works
- enough solar to run a properly sized fridge without running the engine all day
- countertop icemaker!
- a dinghy boarding ladder, something everyone always wishes they had, but never seems to get.
- Decent, modern ground tackle. Not some 30 yr old CQR with 75 ft of undersized chain.

These are exceptional items that would make a charter boat more attractive for me. The list is different if we are talking about required personal cruising equipment, but this is the sizzle that would sell me on a charter boat.

^^^^^^ This ^^^^^

Maytrix,
That's a fun age. Enjoy while you can 'cause they grow really fast and it won't be long before you wonder how they got so big.

This is a completely different subject but might be good for another tread. What is it like sailing with a 17 month old? How do you keep him safe? I ask because I had this conversation a few months ago with a friend who has some kids with the youngest around seven. He would like to go sailing with the family but feels he needs to get all the kids to the point of being strong swimmers. What are your thought?

West Marine sells Sony Bluetooth stereos for $99. I have one in my boat and one in my car

Maytrix,
So I think Tony has a good point. If you improve your boat by doing A, B, and C how do you plan to make that information available to charter guests who are evaluating your boat against some other choices. Chances are that the charter company isn't going to publish the "little stuff".

Well as a matter of fact, let it be proven, that I booked Dream Machine over her sister ship because of the effort you made in showing the upgrades. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> Nice work in progress. Can’t wait for version 2.

This was my thought as well. I guess nice extras might help with repeat bookings but if you don't have a way to advertise "the extras" most of us won't know the boat has them. Anacortes Yachts (in the PNW) has owner added information for each boat, very useful but I haven't seen this with any other charter outfit. Perhaps a link to your own boat website, I've seen that a few times with "owners time" but I don't know if any of the outfits would be setup and willing to let you somehow add a link to their boat details section. As a frequent charterer I really wish there was some easy way to get this type of boat specific information.

I was planning on setting up a web page for the boat. Already have one now, but it is incredible basic as all the info for Moorings boats were on their site.

As beerMe also indicates - is the charter company going to give you a link to your web site? Seems like they would need to or there is no way a prospective client will find your site unless maybe they did a google search which is unlikely. In my case my web site has a link from the CYOA web page. They've been happy to provide this. I would imagine any charter company should be happy to give you that link assuming they are chartering specific boats.

IMO all boats should have a web page. As a charter guest I would appreciate this. I think the reason this doesn't happen is that for the most part the charter company and owner are on opposite ends of the business due to the way most of these companies compensate the owner. If the owner has a fixed income plan - which I believe is the most common (correct me if I have the wrong impression) - there is no incentive by the owner to do anything to improve or market the boat. In fact the owner is hoping the boat doesn't charter at all - less wear and abuse. The charter company on the other hand has the incentive to use the boat as much as possible - it's an all you can eat buffet and the more you eat the more you get your money's worth.

In my little world, the entire industry - charter company, charter customers, and owners - would all be better served if the charter company and owners where better aligned. You do this by giving owners an upside to making the boat attractive by giving him/her some percentage of revenue, a profit share, or a number of other possible methods that would tie the owner to the revenue being generated. This would cause owners to want to compete for business which would result in better boats and better information to the customer.

I know this is pretty naive. I'm a first time boat owner and have not yet figured out how "it really is". But on the upside I'm also not constrained by how things have worked in the past so I'm willing to work on my little corner of the world to try to improve it. I hope you can improve your corner of the world as well.

I haven't mentioned it yet, but I believe they would. I will also be actively working to sell time on the boat as well so I'll probably have it advertised as well and linked to my page. I also have business cards for the boat - given them out on numerous trips and have sold time in the past from that.

agrimsrud :
Not all charter companies use the guaranteed income approach and if they offer BOTH, then I think this really is a conflict.... Why would they book on a boat where profit is shared if any of their guaranteed income boats are available?

I want my boat(SEA TIGER: which is a banner advertiser on TTOL) to charter as as much as possible, whether I charter it directly or if TMM (the charter company ) charters it.
TMM makes more if they charter it and I am good with that.

I do believe websites for individual boats are nice, but I understand the charter companies reluctance to provide links as this would encourage more "direct from owner" charters, costing them money.

High lighting specific "extras" on your website may be helpful.

Enjoy ownership, and the business of having a boat in charter!

I'm guessing you don't understand how most non guaranteed income systems work. I'm guessing Your charter Co does not allow you to charter the boat and save the 25% commission for charters you book yourself. Basically you are competing with them. Why would they link your site in that case? Had a boat with TMM a long time, besides being too busy in my real business, I did not feel right about trying to undercut TMM or charter brokers booking my boat thru a website. I let a few friends use gratis and booked to a couple TTOL people who asked. But if your charter company allows you to book your boat privately and save the 25% commission..they would be hurting themselves badly to link an owner competing with them site.

Become a TTOL Sponsor. That's how I sold nearly all the time on my boat. Probably did 5-10 weeks every year. Your charter company won't want you directly selling anymore than that!

Regarding electric power: What do you think is the equivalent of an ice bag for cooling the fridge compared to running the engine (hours)?

Or how many hours engine-time is avoidable by 1 ice bag as the fridge needs probably the most power on board? Any guess?

WillL and Deepcut,
I think you are confirming the point I was trying to make which is that the owners and charter company interests are not necessarily entirely alligned. Seems to me if they were pulling on the rope in the same direction they might both benefit.