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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Shifty]
#108001
09/21/2016 07:28 AM
09/21/2016 07:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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In very general terms many who get themselves in trouble near a dock or mooring are going too fast. A second mistake is not taking the time away from the dock to see how their boat will respond when reverse thrust is applied. Then many do not understand or use the benefits of the spring line when approaching a dock. When deployed properly the spring line will serve as your brake and bring you gently against the dock to allow the other lines bow and stern to be secured. In almost every instance the spring lines are the two key tools to be used when approaching a dock. Before you get anywhere near a dock make sure those on deck understand how and why you will use the spring lines. Approach the dock very, very, slowly. Understand how your stopped or nearly stopped boat will react to reverse thrust. You should not need the bow thruster at all when approaching a dock. Here is one of the many videos on using a spring line to your advantage near a dock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUMocc1_4wHint: When you see a crew set up to dock a boat with the bow line in their hands. That crew does not understand the spring line and the best practices to bring a boat to the dock under control. Have the bow and stern lines ready. But, leave those bow and stern lines secure on the deck until the spring lines have your securely in your place against the dock. Try to keep your crew off the bow when docking. If you have a crew positioned to get off the boat or to toss a line to the dock? That crew should be at the widest spot on the boat with the forward spring line in their hand. Slow; Almost Stopped! No Crew on the bow, forward spring line ready to go.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: NCSailor]
#108004
09/21/2016 08:07 AM
09/21/2016 08:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
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Posts: 1,049
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This video demonstrates the common errors. Lots of hustle, all wrong. The helmsman is is using way too much power and speed. No one in the group understands how to use the lines to facilitate getting the boat properly against the dock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAnfcAxFelwOnce near the dock only one spring from amidships should have been used forward or aft to bring the boat to the dock. The person hanging his legs over the side should not be there. The person standing and tossing random lines is lucky she did not end up in the water between the boat and the dock.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: OneEyedJack]
#108008
09/21/2016 12:03 PM
09/21/2016 12:03 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 369 Close to the water as possible
Flotsam
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Posts: 369
Close to the water as possible
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StormJib nails it. Only thing to add is to be prepared to ignore the person on the dock insisting on being thrown the bow line. I'm amazed when I think about all of the supposedly experienced dock hands I've met who still don't understand spring lines. Worst jam I've ever gotten into while docking was because I allowed myself to be intimidated by the lady in a white shirt and khakis uniform demanding the bow line when because of the crosswind, I knew damn well the spring line was called for.
Remember, YOU are the captain, YOU now know better. Stick to your guns and throw 'em the spring line.
Last edited by Flotsam; 09/21/2016 12:07 PM.
Flotsam
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Schwendy]
#108010
09/21/2016 12:30 PM
09/21/2016 12:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,956 St. John, USVI
RickG
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,956
St. John, USVI
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Not a guru, but I've had lessons from them and continue to get them. In bareboat sailing school in the BVIs each of the two students had about eight practice dockings per day - wind on the dock, wind off the dock, wind across the finger piers and pilings, maneuvering restricted, depth restricted... with a great instructor. Practice taught me to be ready for anything. I still get anxious and take it very slow.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes, 2003 Beneteau 423 Grenada
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Flotsam]
#108013
09/21/2016 03:02 PM
09/21/2016 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,440 Miramichi NB Canada
Sandsailsun
Traveler
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,440
Miramichi NB Canada
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Flotsam said: StormJib nails it. Only thing to add is to be prepared to ignore the person on the dock insisting on being thrown the bow line. I'm amazed when I think about all of the supposedly experienced dock hands I've met who still don't understand spring lines. Worst jam I've ever gotten into while docking was because I allowed myself to be intimidated by the lady in a white shirt and khakis uniform demanding the bow line when because of the crosswind, I knew damn well the spring line was called for.
Remember, YOU are the captain, YOU now know better. Stick to your guns and throw 'em the spring line. Agree about the spring .. Reef song is a 52 mono and Ward is a Harbor Pilot who deals with docking of cruise ships and super tankers so he is a slow and steady ( but enough speed to control the boat ) spring first man also. And don't be afraid to make sure you play around with maneuvering the boat lots before your first dock attempt . Ward describes it as being one with the boat and knowing how it will respond . Every boat is different until you get the proper feel.... Apparently ( I'm a pretty good first mate but leave the docking to the expert ) <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/circle.gif" alt="" />
Kim
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: mattt]
#108020
09/22/2016 06:39 AM
09/22/2016 06:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,440 Miramichi NB Canada
Sandsailsun
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,440
Miramichi NB Canada
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Another great tip is to ensure you have called ahead to determine port ir starboard side tie up and ready your boat lots in advance ..... also be ready to change them quickly if the dock staff change their minds ... Remember a very fast scramble at the sopers fuel dock one trip when we went from port to starboard side tie up in 5 minutes . Your crew needs to be able to change fenders and lines quickly as needed ... And don't be afraid to tell the dock staff in advance hen you call that you will need assistance to secure . Not all dock staff are created equal. The boys st Leverick for example are incredible , others not as reliable
Last edited by Sandsailsun; 09/22/2016 09:04 AM.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Sandsailsun]
#108021
09/22/2016 10:36 AM
09/22/2016 10:36 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 369 Close to the water as possible
Flotsam
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Posts: 369
Close to the water as possible
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This thread oughta be archived and kept for easy retrieval for anyone searching for "docking tips". Lotta advice here I wish I'd had when I was a beginner.
Flotsam
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Flotsam]
#108022
09/22/2016 10:09 PM
09/22/2016 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,018 annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
hallucination
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,018
annap, MD/BVI-Nanny Cay
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Lesson learned the hard way...
When you come into a dock, ask/plead assistance to suggested approach, lines ready, personnel at station. Let them know you want their assistance...and are willing to tip.
REASON: many dock hands are running into arrogant know/it/all/"captains that take offense to the dockies telling them to do this/that.
Insist that their guidance, patience, help will be welcomed. and not result in a flaming diatribe to a really nice person at Leverick for instance.
No, I was not that person. But someone here knows who:)
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: CottageGirl]
#108024
09/23/2016 09:24 AM
09/23/2016 09:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,614 Woodstock, GA
RickinAtlanta
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,614
Woodstock, GA
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CottageGirl said: I've always heard rule #1: Only go as fast as you want to hit something. :-) Agree with what everyone's said above. If you can't make it on the first try, abort and try again. Your ego is much cheaper to repair than fiberglass. My husband and I still learn something new or something we can improve on every time we dock. When I dock the phrase is actually: Only dock as fast as you want to crash. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Yikes.gif" alt="" />
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: tradewinds]
#108026
09/23/2016 02:09 PM
09/23/2016 02:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Traveler
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Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Here's some additional advice. Assess the whole situation prior to putting yourself in a position where you have limited options or are committed.
For example, we were docking at scrub. We needed to back in for shore power to reach. So I pulled in and turned the bow away from the dock and proceeded to back in. My mistake was already made.. wind was strong and now into the bow so it pushed the boat sideways towards the dock. Fortunately I have great crew and they got fenders in place and no damage was done.
Looking at the situation after the fact, I realized the best approach would have been to start outside the marina bow to the wind and back all the way in. This way I would have had far better control. I've since used this method, backing up from a distance away and it has worked well.
Matt
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: SteveInMD]
#108031
09/24/2016 10:55 AM
09/24/2016 10:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,559 Grenada
Zanshin
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Traveler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,559
Grenada
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The best money I ever spent boating was paying the Sunsail boat-movers a case of beer so they could show me how to dock boats (back when Sunsail was at Hodge's Creek). I've been singlehandedly docking my monohulls ever since.
One thing taught to me by Mark (of the boat Sealife), another singlehander, about two years ago when we were taking out a catamaran for the Heineken Regatta was to do practice figure 8-s in reverse around 2 moorings. On the catamaran we did this without using the rudder, but the principle applies to close-quarters maneuvering of a monohull as well. Whenever I get to drive a new-to-me mono, I'll idle forward at slow speed and then put the boat into reverse, with rudder amidships. This lets me see how strong the prop-walk is. Some boats have almost no noticeable prop-walk while others will actually travel sideways for a bit before picking up reverse speed.
I have found that reversing into a slip is easier for me than going in forward, mainly because there's little or no prop walk when putting in a bit of forward prop to stop a reversing boat.
As others have already noted, key is preparation and planning. Because I'm alone, I will spend up to 20-30 minutes bobbing along outside of the marina and setting up every single fender I have (minus 1 which is a "rover"), and putting on 4 lines on the docking side (fore, aft, and forward/aft springs) plus one spring on the other side - just in case. I flake the lines on the lifelines so that someone on dock can just grab them easily, but it also lets someone on the boat easily handle the lines as well.
I go slow, with just enough speed to keep steerage but if there's a crosswind pushing the boat away from the dock I'll go a bit faster to give the wind less time to push my boat around.The guys at Nanny Cay and Leverick usually indulge me while I slowly back in but I know they'd rather cross their arms and tap their feet in impatience or beckon me to hurry up; but at least I don't have to do a go-around.
I have to agree with the comments about Leverick - those guys are good and can make even the least experienced skipper look like a pro coming in.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Zanshin]
#108032
09/24/2016 10:20 PM
09/24/2016 10:20 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 463 Chicago
YachtReprise
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 463
Chicago
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Not at all helpful, but....
One time we were pulling into Village Cay with our 62' ketch, crewed charter boat, Shearwater. We had guests on board, and were just finishing up a lovely charter.
My wife was amidships, ready to step off with the forward spring line. My mate was at the bow ready to toss the bowline after she was sprung. Although I was by no means a 'hot dog' captain, I had to come in pretty fast to maintain steerage, and the offset prop was working against me.
As we got in perfect position, my wife stepped on the dock and secured the spring line with a few feet slack. In those few feet I was SUPPOSED to reverse the engine, and she (my boat)would gently walk herself into the dock, with any forward motion halted with the spring line. We had done it a hundred times before.
But....CRAP! What was that sound? It was the prop key shearing and the engine racing. I had no reverse! My wife stood at her post and watched the spring line get tighter, tighter, then SPRANG RIIIP, the cleat pulled right out of the deck, smack into Mary's left boob, and then 'plunk' into the water! But the resistance was enough to stop the boat, and my mate secured the lines.
Mary was still clutching her chest and starting to cry. I peered over the edge of the dock looking for the lost cleat. In what turned out to be a much-repeated quote throughout our (ongoing) 36 years of marriage I stupidly said: "CRAP! That was an eighty dollar cleat!!"
Ask me about other famously stupid quotes, such as: "What difference does it make whether the mate is a male or female?", and "No, you can't take the gun with you shopping (in St. Thomas)! That's just what we need is to lose a $300 pistol!" And...so many more.... sadly.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: YachtReprise]
#108033
09/25/2016 10:44 PM
09/25/2016 10:44 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,217 JAX
jphart
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,217
JAX
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: SteveInMD]
#108034
09/27/2016 05:46 PM
09/27/2016 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 969 Middleburg, VA
cwoody
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 969
Middleburg, VA
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This is a pretty long video, but one of the best I have seen. Covers a number of possible docking situation. MD School of Seamanship - DockingStill trying to perfect the backing into slip with high wind on the bow technique... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />
Chuck W.
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: cwoody]
#108035
09/29/2016 02:13 AM
09/29/2016 02:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 778 Pittsburg,,N.H.
mike
Traveler
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Posts: 778
Pittsburg,,N.H.
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one of the very first posters hit the nail right on the head: don't move towards a dock at a speed greater than you would feel comfortable hitting .. My comments, which are basically the same are .When you switch from a 20'-25' from back home up to a 45' or 50' you just do everything slower.. everything happens slower on a big yacht ,often times worth at least a half a million dollars .. just keep it slow and have one good bow man you can count onine knew that when he was where we wanted to be as we came up from downwind to our anchor we were trying for he wouls simply close his hand and I knew we were ther .BUT, we have a boat thet weighs 45,000 pounds or more that always keeps moving so he knew that when he closed his fist that I was gonna hit reverse ,a bit forcefully as it takes a lot of power to stop a boat that weighs that much .therefore ,he was always ready for my sudden reverse that might throw him forward . But because we knew other so well , no one got any surprises and we have never missed grabbing an anchor on the first try <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Woof.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Woof.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Woof.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Woof.gif" alt="" />
"I have CDO. It's like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, only in alphabetical order like it should be"
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Re: I need practical docking tips from the gurus
[Re: Mdsmurph]
#108039
10/01/2016 12:08 PM
10/01/2016 12:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
StormJib
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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Not a big fan of the gimmicks and tricks like turning around and reversing your hands to drive anything. Better to understand what you are doing and why. It can help to put yourself where you can see what you are doing. Or at least put someone else who understands completely what you are doing to see for you and then be capable and willing to follow the directions relayed to you. What is demonstrated very well in the kid video is the VERY SMART "bumping" the throttles in and out to limit speed to an absolute minimum anywhere near a dock or in a tight spot. Always you just the thrust you need then back in neutral. On the high performance fishing machines with big wheels, big engines, and little below the water to go fast that is critical. It is always important on any boat approaching a mooring or dock. If you are leaving the clutch in gear most of the time you are probably doing it wrong. Here is how gimmicks coupled without basic knowledge + speed can get someone in trouble. Someone should have stopped that lady and boat as soon as she left that clutch in gear at the start of the approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-NkUKn5vyQIf the kid just left those clutches in gear there would be no way to keep that type of boat under control. Just like the lady facing the wrong way to gain one advantage and losing all the others.
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