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Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137728
08/14/2017 04:21 PM
08/14/2017 04:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Quote
StormJib said:
If you want a little more speculation since the skipper of the 5800 will not show up here for his trial. Same with the Mooring's Dock worker who "checked the two out". That boat may have been on autopilot. The boat hits the reef without slowing down and remains in gear well after impact.. There may have not been anybody near the helm with skills when the 5800 ground to a stop on the reef.


This theory makes lots of sense.

Thank you.


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
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Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137729
08/14/2017 05:55 PM
08/14/2017 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,899
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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GeorgeC1  Online Content
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GA/NC
What trial?

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: GeorgeC1] #137730
08/14/2017 09:05 PM
08/14/2017 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,614
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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I guess some people might think auto-pilot will avoid obstacles and pick up a mooring ball or drop anchor for you?


Matt
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: maytrix] #137731
08/14/2017 10:12 PM
08/14/2017 10:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Auto pilot is for when the captain flunks the sobriety test. (Just kidding of course).


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: maytrix] #137732
08/15/2017 08:15 AM
08/15/2017 08:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
maytrix said:
I guess some people might think auto-pilot will avoid obstacles and pick up a mooring ball or drop anchor for you?


It is not unusual at all for some to just put the cursor in the middle of the area they generally want to go. Then head down to the head or deal with some other task. For that reason many of the charter companies would disable the early auto pilots, chart plotters ect.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137733
08/16/2017 01:56 PM
08/16/2017 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,152
Rincón PR
casailor53 Offline
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Rincón PR
Quote
StormJib said:
Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
StormJib said:
Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

tonnage/weight. Huh?


Yes that is the way it works. The underwriters put limits on the weight and value of the boats the underwriters will insure for use without a crew. No insurance no finance along with some other issues. You may not like it but the underwriters decided what boats are bareboat and what boats are not. The marketing companies would rent anything the owners would buy and the customers would pay for.

Sorry, tonnage is a measure of VOLUME not WEIGHT. "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: casailor53] #137734
08/16/2017 03:36 PM
08/16/2017 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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sail2wind  Offline
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
he knows how to copy and paste

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sail2wind] #137735
08/17/2017 01:14 PM
08/17/2017 01:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 304
Rockford, Michigan
aarpskier Offline
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Rockford, Michigan
Quote
sail2wind said:
he knows how to copy and paste
... and plagiarize.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: casailor53] #137736
08/17/2017 01:20 PM
08/17/2017 01:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
StormJib said:
Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
StormJib said:
Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

tonnage/weight. Huh?


Yes that is the way it works. The underwriters put limits on the weight and value of the boats the underwriters will insure for use without a crew. No insurance no finance along with some other issues. You may not like it but the underwriters decided what boats are bareboat and what boats are not. The marketing companies would rent anything the owners would buy and the customers would pay for.

Sorry, tonnage is a measure of VOLUME not WEIGHT. "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"


Believe what you want. In virtually all industries and markets he who has the gold makes the rules. In the charter fleet world that is the banks financing the owners boats and the insurance underwriters protecting the banks from losses.


Pick up the telephone and try to get an insurance quote to bareboat a hull with a value of $2 Million or a gross weight of 150,000lbs. You will not find any underwriters willing to cover boats of that weight or value without a licensed crew.

Keep the value under one million pounds sterling and you will find some takers for a bonafide charter operation.

The marketing companies will gladly make the commissions on anything anyone is will to buy for them and the insurance companies willing to insure.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137737
08/17/2017 03:15 PM
08/17/2017 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
yes, since so many people use pounds in the U.S. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

I doubt you will find a charter boat weighing 150,000 lbs. for smaller charter boats insurance is about 2% of hull value, weight was never an issue

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sail2wind] #137738
08/17/2017 04:34 PM
08/17/2017 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,098
Maryland
Twanger Offline
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Twanger  Offline
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Maryland
Yup... A Voyage 60 weighs in only around 40,000 lb.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sail2wind] #137739
08/17/2017 04:42 PM
08/17/2017 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,446
An island state of mind
tradewinds Online content
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tradewinds  Online Content
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An island state of mind
I'm more confused why casailor is picking on his buddy, Ron. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: tradewinds] #137740
08/17/2017 05:32 PM
08/17/2017 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 85
Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
AgapeCottages Offline
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Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
So, does anyone know how the boat did? Any major damage?


JasonHelmbrecht
Agape Cottages
Cane Garden Bay
reservations@agapecottages.com
www.agapecottages.com
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: AgapeCottages] #137741
08/17/2017 05:54 PM
08/17/2017 05:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 49
Midwest
S
sunshine44 Offline
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Midwest
We saw the Moorings 58 take a ball at Ivan's after they were pulled off the reef. They stayed the night.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sunshine44] #137742
08/17/2017 06:36 PM
08/17/2017 06:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 466
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Redmond, WA
My understanding is that the stub keels on these boats are essentially sacrificial. If there was no other contact the damage may be relatively minor.


M4000 "Lio Kai"
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sunshine44] #137743
08/17/2017 06:39 PM
08/17/2017 06:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,899
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Online content
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The keels on the Leopards are designed to be sacrificed. The can be unbolted and replaced. With the impact they had they are probably going to need replacement or a lot of glasswork. That area of the reef is shallow enough that it's possible there was some hull damage. If no hull damage there are no real issues staying out to the end of the charter.
G

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: GeorgeC1] #137744
08/17/2017 07:59 PM
08/17/2017 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
surprised the props were not damaged

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sail2wind] #137745
08/18/2017 11:22 AM
08/18/2017 11:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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Likely the keels did some of their job and prevented the hull from traveling into water shallow enough to do real damage. Outside of single errant rock or coral head the rudders would be ripped from the boat before the props and struts would be damaged. Prudent naval architecture is a design that will handle a sudden grounding at hull speed with no threat to water integrity or the ability to sail to safe harbor. Not having a design capable of a sudden stop at hull speed puts the life of the passengers at risk with collisions of submerged containers and whatever else waits just below the surface at night.

[Linked Image]

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137746
08/18/2017 11:47 AM
08/18/2017 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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Posts: 10,213
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
water integrity?

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: sail2wind] #137747
08/18/2017 12:44 PM
08/18/2017 12:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
sail2wind said:
water integrity?


That means the hull remains solid and intact and no water comes into the hull or hulls or the opposite of catastrophic hull failure. Properly designed boats are more than capable of slamming into the bottom or other hazard in the water without sinking. See the video of the 5800 hundred and all the boats with scratches on the keels in any BVI anchorage. The good ones just get scratch when they slam into the bottom under power or sail.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: GeorgeC1] #137748
08/18/2017 01:57 PM
08/18/2017 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 495
OU Sooner
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ggffrr11 Offline
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When the moorings people want to talk with you after the accident, all you gotta say is "this reef was not shown anywhere in the sailing guide on the approach to '--Cooper Island--'". You want to make sure you say this with a straight face.

Also, it's important to note on these big cats that all you have to do when approaching the dock is "straddle the pier". This means you don't have to put out fenders or use any lines. Its very simple.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #165971
07/16/2018 08:26 PM
07/16/2018 08:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 94
New Jersey
C
Catmandu Offline
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New Jersey
I was on a ball in front of Ivan’s in White Bay. I watched a number of boats including Moorings boats which appeared to have Mooring captains motor over the reef on the east side. There are 2 channels one cleanly marked with red and green buoys in front of Soggy, the other towards the eastern end with one marker or what appeared to be a green buoy. No red buoy. The cruising guide shows a reef on the eastern end and boats appeared to be entering and exiting right over it with no attempts to use either marked channels. What am I missing?

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #165982
07/16/2018 11:02 PM
07/16/2018 11:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,131
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Your not missing anything


Warren S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 50 (winner of best crewed yacht under 55 feet at the St. Thomas crewed yacht boat show).

https://www.cyabrochure.com/ebn/2307/pdyrX/6642/4///
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: warren460] #166023
07/17/2018 01:48 PM
07/17/2018 01:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
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burge Offline
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Green Marker at Ivan's End is way off station....

Last edited by burge; 07/17/2018 01:49 PM.
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