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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#178872
12/26/2018 08:33 PM
12/26/2018 08:33 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
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Traveler
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
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Apparently the balls are very different, bright orange and clearly marked RESERVATION ONLY. The usual first come, first serve white balls have not changed.
Do I understand the reservation is ‘day of’, therefore need to stay up to midnight in order to get first shot at reservations?
Last edited by NoelHall; 12/26/2018 08:34 PM.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: DEL]
#178922
12/27/2018 08:52 PM
12/27/2018 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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So does that mean you don't use Uber? I think it is just a matter of time before this moves to "demand pricing". If my crew really wants to spend extra time at the Dogs, they would probably agree to pay more for a ball at Leverick. Never used Uber. A mooring ball is like parking. Parking prices (that I'm aware of anyway) don't change by demand - they may change based on weekend or weekday but that is due to businesses causing more weekday traffic. So I guess if it was like parking, perhaps they'd have a busy season/low season. Although hopefully they don't go too far, since there is a very good reason to have mooring balls - to keep people from having to anchor. Better for the seabed to have mooring balls then anchoring. If pricing goes too crazy or changes too frequently, it will likely prompt more to just anchor in the places it is possible. I think its also important to note that this is done in other areas. Dockwa for example. And while prices can vary, I don't believe they change on demand. There are set prices for days/times - maybe higher prices for holidays..etc. but a price for a specific date today will be the same the day prior too. Overall, I like the idea - hopefully it remains as it is now with minor adjustments and they don't get greedy.. that's my only concern.
Last edited by maytrix; 12/27/2018 08:55 PM.
Matt
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179031
12/28/2018 10:15 PM
12/28/2018 10:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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I think the problem is who will enforce and what is the penalty for using a reserved mooring? If there is no penalty and no one enforces it, that will be a problem.
Matt
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: GeorgeC1]
#179043
12/29/2018 02:12 AM
12/29/2018 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 304 California
Sunnykm
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 304
California
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George
Thank you for the posting a scenario of what can happen on the Boatyball reservations. Please update us on what the ultimate outcome was this evening.
Sunny
Last edited by Sunnykm; 12/29/2018 02:13 AM. Reason: semantics
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: BoatyBall]
#179076
12/29/2018 03:01 PM
12/29/2018 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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George, thank you for the update. This group is a great source of insight and information for us at BoatyBall. We contacted the owners at Leverick last night and they will be discussing the protocol with the guys on the dock. It is disappointing to hear about the behavior of the crew an Excelsior. This has been reported to the head of operations at The Moorings. We have found the charter companies to be very responsive when we contact them with concerns. If anyone in this group witnesses any issues and supports what we are trying to accomplish then please feel free to contact us directly at info@boatyball.com. It is really helpful if you can provide the boat name and charter company when reporting an issue. Maybe you can somehow implement a fine of $500.00 for unauthorized use of the mooring.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: NCSailor]
#179084
12/29/2018 04:15 PM
12/29/2018 04:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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These problems seem like growing pains. I think the reservation system is a great idea and will take hold. We are down January 26 and plan to use it. I agree. It is also encouraging to see Boatyball take such an active approach and participate here as well. I at this early stage, people will see what they can get away with. If nothing happened, then they'd do it again. But if the charter companies address it with captains and discourage it, then they'll probably stop doing it. Hopefully they too just learn to use the app or anchor like the captained boats often do anyway.
Matt
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179103
12/29/2018 07:05 PM
12/29/2018 07:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
Christo
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 322
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Boatyball have successfully identified an issue/problem for many sailors in the BVI, i.e. the fact that if you want to be guaranteed a mooring ball then you may have to adjust your end-of-day timings to be sure of getting one. Some sailors don’t want to adjust their timings…therefore problem.
Problem = opportunity & market
Problem + solution = profit
However, as I see it, they have not yet identified a genuine solution!
1.) As has been proven so far, there will always be an element that don’t follow the rules. So booking a ball doesn’t mean you get one. Come dusk…you may well be buggered if you don’t know how to use that sharp heavy thing attached to the chain at the pointy end. a. Boat already on your ball won’t move…what next? Are you going to fight them?! So far it sounds like the ‘mooring managers’ are useless. On this thread alone (and we have seen it ourselves with other firms) it has been reported that Horizon Yacht Charter Captains will happily remain on national park moorings overnight…which is illegal and carries a fine. If that doesn’t stop them doing it…then what do Boatyball expect to do about them using their balls? b. Boat on ball has gone ashore (maybe tactically timed) what next? Cut them loose?!
2.) Mooring balls have ALWAYS been first come first serve. Moorings with Boatyball are STILL first come first serve…the clock just begins at midnight the night before rather than mid-afternoon on the day. And that is assuming your reservation leads to you getting a ball…and some other Captain hasn’t snagged your ball / done a deal with the dockmaster / refuses to move.
3.) In the case of Anegada, some balls don’t have the depth for larger monohulls. Our experience is you choose a ball depending on what you can get to. When you get close to zero you hit reverse! What if you have reserved and pain for a ball you then find is too shallow for you?
4.) You arrive with a reservation into a nearly empty mooring field…the ball next to the one you have reserved and paid for is occupied by a 62 ft cat. Which clearly is too big for the mooring and may jeopardise the safety of your vessel in the night. What next? This thread alone has a report of such a vessel being on a Boatyball mooring. Does this mean they are not vetting which vessels are allowed to use them?
5.) You arrive with a reservation into a nearly empty mooring field…the ball next to the one you have reserved and paid for is occupied by a boat filled with fun-loving young hooligans playing loud music at all hours. You have no issue with them having their fun, but might otherwise have chosen a different ball…but, its already booked and paid for, so you’re stuck.
If the biggest aggro or hassle you encounter when sailing in the BVI is worrying about getting a ball at the end of the day, then you’re having a pretty good day. If however as a result of Boatyball your day begins at Midnight to reserve a ball and ends with a fight with some idiot captain who won’t vacate the ball you reserved then…suddenly you’re having a bad day.
This is the BVI, not London. We don’t need Uber, we don’t need a bigger runway, we don’t need more resorts, we don’t need more cruise-ships and we don’t need Boatyball.
And yes…this view stands in the way of capitalism and ‘progress’…but hell, that’s why we come to the BVI in the first place! To get away from all these things in our own frantic, hectic, over-developed, over-commercialised, over-cookied, non-stop lives!
...just our opinion!
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179116
12/29/2018 07:22 PM
12/29/2018 07:22 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886 Louisville, KY
NoelHall
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 886
Louisville, KY
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Just exchanged text messages with a friend, who is at Cooper this evening with his crew. I had explained 'boatyball' to him several days ago and he opened an account. He signed-on at midnight last night while at the Bight on Norman, finding immediately four of the eight had beat him to the site. He reserved the fifth of the eight balls and arrived at Cooper this afternoon at about 3:00 pm. They found someone on the ball, although they were simply hoping nothing would happen (they did not have a reservation, and perhaps had no idea how to get one). They moved their boat without incident, once my friend explained they had a reservation for the ball.
Noel Hall "It is humbling indeed, to discover my own opinion is only correct less than 50% of the time." www.noelhall.com
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: Christo]
#179136
12/29/2018 10:16 PM
12/29/2018 10:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720 Massachusetts
maytrix
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,720
Massachusetts
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Boatyball have successfully identified an issue/problem for many sailors in the BVI, i.e. the fact that if you want to be guaranteed a mooring ball then you may have to adjust your end-of-day timings to be sure of getting one. Some sailors don’t want to adjust their timings…therefore problem.
Problem = opportunity & market
Problem + solution = profit
However, as I see it, they have not yet identified a genuine solution!
I think the solution is genuine. Like anything though, it does take time before it will work without issue. Dockwa is used in the states and works well. The only significant difference that I'm aware of is that all the balls in the areas where dockwa is used are reservation only. And it also differs in that reservations are not just 24 hours in advance. I think once it is clear that the reserved balls will be enforced, the program will work well. Maybe all it will really take is a strong partnership with the charter companies so they can help ensure guests and captains don't use reserved balls without a reservation. Main problem is there seems to be zero enforcement with anything in the BVI. Overnighting on NPT moorings..etc..etc.
Matt
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179138
12/29/2018 10:44 PM
12/29/2018 10:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 795 Kannapolis, NC
ndfaninnc
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 795
Kannapolis, NC
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I just don’t like the reserve after midnight thing. I see no reason why they can’t take reservations up to 30 days in advance. I can do that with most restaurants, why not Boatyball.
As for confrontations, man I am on vacation. I don’t want to argue with someone over a mooring ball. Hopefully time will fix issues. But as said earlier, how do you handle when the entire boat is ashore for the day?
All in all I like the concept. Just will require some tweaking over time.
Go Irish!!
Bill
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: maytrix]
#179158
12/30/2018 07:45 AM
12/30/2018 07:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,277 Saint Thomas, USVI
CaptainJay
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,277
Saint Thomas, USVI
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Boatyball have successfully identified an issue/problem for many sailors in the BVI, i.e. the fact that if you want to be guaranteed a mooring ball then you may have to adjust your end-of-day timings to be sure of getting one. Some sailors don’t want to adjust their timings…therefore problem.
Problem = opportunity & market
Problem + solution = profit
However, as I see it, they have not yet identified a genuine solution!
I think the solution is genuine. Like anything though, it does take time before it will work without issue. Dockwa is used in the states and works well. The only significant difference that I'm aware of is that all the balls in the areas where dockwa is used are reservation only. And it also differs in that reservations are not just 24 hours in advance. I think once it is clear that the reserved balls will be enforced, the program will work well. Maybe all it will really take is a strong partnership with the charter companies so they can help ensure guests and captains don't use reserved balls without a reservation. Main problem is there seems to be zero enforcement with anything in the BVI. Overnighting on NPT moorings..etc..etc. While certainly as charter companies educating our guests will be helpful. But at the end of the day a small percentage of guests who are to good for the rules will be the problem children. In almost any part of the world with any kind of system for moorings with reservations there is ultimately a human being in charge of it. A harbormaster if you will. Cooper will be an issue unless this is closely monitored. It is an increasingly popular spot with little to no room to safely anchor. The idea of being able to show up at four in the afternoon with a guaranteed spot is very appealing. Making an intoxicated absent captain vacate your reserved mooring will be difficult if not legally impossible. Cooper is unique because of the depth and bottom conditions. Frankly telling guests to pick up a ball by 2:00 in the afternoon has never set well withe me as it limits your sailing time. But in the busy season this is exactly the advice we give so the guests have time for plan B. It might actually be a better system if all of Coopers Moorings where run by a dock master/reservation. Either by the app or old school. Get in radio range call the harbor master give them the details and get assigned a ball. At least then you would know five or ten miles out if you have a spot. If not that gives you plenty of time to do something else. Rules without enforcement are just recommendations.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179160
12/30/2018 07:59 AM
12/30/2018 07:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,154 Ontario, Canada
warren460
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,154
Ontario, Canada
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Cooper was full before 2pm yesterday.
The threat to ban someone from boatieball is not much of a threat anyway.
Fines won't work, by what authority.
Given the number of balls at Cooper, Jay is spot on. A human has to run the harbor. Either fcfs or make the reservations knowing that there is human oversight
Last edited by warren460; 12/30/2018 08:02 AM.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: warren460]
#179161
12/30/2018 08:25 AM
12/30/2018 08:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
sail445
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,003
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Cooper was full before 2pm yesterday.
The threat to ban someone from boatieball is not much of a threat anyway.
Fines won't work, by what authority.
Given the number of balls at Cooper, Jay is spot on. A human has to run the harbor. Either fcfs or make the reservations knowing that there is human oversight Actually instead of using the word “Fine” you could say it’s the price of an unreserved ball.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179169
12/30/2018 10:21 AM
12/30/2018 10:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 49
dcareri
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 49
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We’re sitting in Great Harbor Jost for the Old Year end party. We’ve watched a couple of locals “reserve” balls for boats using dinghys and sailboards, one had a board on it for 3 days. Don’t know if they were paying for the mooring or not. I’m not a fan of any reservation system but like even less that people that know people are able to do this.... especially since we don’t know anybody 🙂. So Boatyball is better than this.
We live aboard now and don’t spend that much time in the BVI and don’t pick up a mooring that often but I do hope they leave most balls at FCFS.
Dennis S/V Toes in the Water Lagoon 450
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179330
01/01/2019 01:41 PM
01/01/2019 01:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,666 Memphis, BVI, CT
RatmansWife
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,666
Memphis, BVI, CT
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I’m also thinking that a given mooring field, say Cooper, should be all Boatyball, no FCFS. That way, if there’s no room at the inn, you choose another location. It avoids the problem of people showing up, finding the unreserved balls full, and squatting on someone else’s reserved ball.
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Re: Boatyball
[Re: FRANKIE2]
#179344
01/01/2019 03:14 PM
01/01/2019 03:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052 GA/NC
GeorgeC1
Traveler
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Traveler
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,052
GA/NC
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The balls at Cooper are used for many purposes. We often drop in for just lunch. We also go in and out several times a day swapping tanks. If they make all the balls reserved only they will not see my business. On the subject of reservations. I do think it should be moved up to 9 PM the night before. No one wants to stay up till midnight. I don’t think it’s a good idea to make the reservations more than a day in advance. To many things can happen to cause no shows if booked well ahead. That will result in balls sitting empty. The last thing that concerns me is priority given to specific companies. I really appreciate the effort the boatyball owners are putting into addressing issues. They have been extremely responsive except on this point even when I directly asked the question. Look for some charter companies to get priority in the not to distant future. G
Last edited by GeorgeC1; 01/01/2019 05:02 PM.
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