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3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM #221675
03/18/2020 01:03 PM
03/18/2020 01:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,151
Ohio
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As most of you know, I was facing the situation of how and when to return home from SXM just as many others are as well. My wife made 2 trips to the DAY airport, Sun. & again Mon. to see if she could get any information from the Delta agents as I was finding nothing online and we were concerned about my Fri. 3/20 departure. She was told by a supervisor in DAY on Sun. to stay with the 3/20 return, it was scheduled and only thing she could change me to was 1st class on Thur. She also assured my wife it was on Delta to get me home if they cancelled. Very early Sun. I received the cancellation email. I got online very early and was finding nothing. My wife then want back to DAY and was basically treated poorly and blow off by the Delta staff.

While she was there I found a flight on United and asked her to go to their counter and book it. They said they could not do so, it had to be done online or on the phone. I was able to book online later and I am probably out the cost of this ticket due to their restrictions as I cancelled it yesterday. I had later in the morning had a flight option pup up on Delta for Tuesday that got me home in 1 day. In many cases it was impossible to use a credit card due to the connection so if I did find something, I couldn't get the transaction to process. I found a way around it eventually.

This brings up to the Delta experience yesterday. I was expecting a full flight and they were asking for volunteers. Last I heard, the offer was $800 and they get you off on the next scheduled Delta flight. The flight was loaded with 3 empty seats and 3-4 dogs. None of the dogs were in carriers and two of them were in the #50+ range. No service dog vests (of which many are fake) and nothing would indicate they were service dogs but pets of what appeared to be medical school students. Another dog had a vest indicting "emotional support". Now, I know a lot about dogs and training and personally have known multiple TRUE and properly trained REAL service dogs. This dog had a prong/pinch collar on along with what is known as an "e collar". Nice word for shock collar! Any properly trained dog that truly provided service/assistance would NOT have these collars on. One dog was a row behind me and across the aisle and was in the owners lap or on the floor and I guess rode for free. The dogs were not a problem that I noticed, just another way of people abusing the very loosely written ADA rules. to fly their pets for free.

After boarding and waiting at least 30 minutes without movement the pilot comes on and announces they had to wait for 3 US citizens who were on the inbound flight of ONLY 5 people and were not permitted entry to SXM due to the PM's travel restrictions that took effect yesterday. A few minutes later it is announced not only do we have to wait for the 3 people who NEVER should have been allowed to board in ATL but we had to wait for their luggage! Just about 55 minutes into it, they are onboard and directed to the only 3 vacant seats (one in Delta Comfort and she got the benefits of being in the section) on the plane. An hour past schedule we are off.

It was obvious the entire crew was NOT happy with the situation. I asked a very nice flight attendant how many people on the inbound flight. Her response was "just 5 and 3 should not have been allowed on in ATL". I guess the JFK flight had a total of 2 people on it and one of them should have been denied boarding in the US as they were returned as well. The flight attendant praised the SXM "station manager" of Delta for working with the SXM government to get as many Delta customer out as soon as possible. She was also very frustrated with how this played out and a gate agent (or possibly more than one) in ATL for boarding these people. She indicated it would result in a "stern" conversation with their supervisor in ATL and also could possibly jeopardize the ability of Delta to continue to get flights in to get stranded people out. I give high marks for SXM immigration for catching these passengers from entering the country. I also view it as an act of total incompetence on the part of Delta employees in ATL for allowing this to happen. The delay likely cost several people their connections on what was an already stressful chain of events.

We landed just a few minutes late. From the time we hit the group to me retrieving my bag was 35 min. Customs and immigration was very smooth but a long walk to get to it. Security was another 35 minutes and was packed. I am sure passengers with anything less than a 2 hour connection did not make it last night. TSA was very backed up but to expedite things people did not have to remove anything other than jackets and have empty pockets. We were basically told, "Put everything in your carry on and it would be scanned".

I am very glad to have made it home yesterday and will deal with my cancelled and rebooked Delta ticket and also the United ticket I cancelled in the near future.

On a side note, PLEASE pay attention to what you are doing. They were very lax in C & I and also TSA with regard to allowing cell phone use but when you are holding up the line, running into people and basically not paying any attention other than to your texting, it creates other problems. This was constant last night and caused a very non fluid flow of people through the lines and adding unnecessary time for those with tight connections. Same way in the grocery this morning and causing things to be worse than what they actually were.

Good luck to those still trying to get home and to my friends traveling out today.


J.D.
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Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221682
03/18/2020 01:19 PM
03/18/2020 01:19 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Good you made it home safe. Surprised an e collar was allowed to be able to operate on a plane with the transmission if used.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221683
03/18/2020 01:20 PM
03/18/2020 01:20 PM
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JD--thanks for posting your experience and for providing up to date info while on island. I have to think other people on your flight were giving those three the big stink eye!! Glad you personally didn't miss your connection. Man, if I had missed my connection because of that situation, I would not have been happy! Did the flight attendant have any clue why the people were allowed to board in Atlanta?

So glad you were ultimately able to get home OK.


Carol Hill
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Carol_Hill] #221688
03/18/2020 01:35 PM
03/18/2020 01:35 PM
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Ohio
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Thanks. She had no idea why they were allowed boarding and it was obvious she and the captain were not happy it happened. I will go with an incompetent employee. The flight attendant basically said, we were giving this opportunity to help our customers and we (Delta) can not mess it up like this again. Nobody said anything to them, although I think under different circumstance, they may have been given some kind of "welcome" when they boarded as everyone on board knew the situation since it had been announced.

Scubaman, it may have been a dummy collar but a trained dog for support or assistance would not have had either the pinch/prong or e-collar on. I did not see the remote for the collar but I know an e-collar when I see one. If a dog is shocked enough, they behave differently when it is on whether it is activated or not. The combination of the two collars was a dead giveaway to me. We do not allow the use of e-collars for any dock diving training.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221690
03/18/2020 01:43 PM
03/18/2020 01:43 PM
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I am surprised that no one said anything to them.

How did they handle the crew, do you know? I would think they would have had to bring new crew on the way down, as wouldn't the crew time out, by the time they left from Atlanta and then had to turn around and go back? Is that what they normally do, use the same crew on the return? I guess I never thought about that.

The dogs I figure probably were with med students, as you say, and got on because they knew local gate agents, and were allowed on, due to the circumstances. Doesn't make it right though.


Carol Hill
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221692
03/18/2020 01:46 PM
03/18/2020 01:46 PM
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Auburn, WA
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Correct. I know e collars all to well and having a dummy on is some deterrent but smart dogs do learn the difference. I always have my dog wearing one while hunting but very seldom have to use it. When I do its usually the tone or she sees me with transmitter in hand. Smart.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Carol_Hill] #221697
03/18/2020 01:59 PM
03/18/2020 01:59 PM
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Ohio
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Most of the time, if not all of the time, the crews turn around and go back from where they came. A lengthy delay (2+ hours or so I would guess) would likely be a problem but I do not know the specifics when it comes to this. Perhaps someone with knowledge of pilots hours can add to this.

The one dog was not with a med student, the one with the vest on. I do think the other two were with med students as one had an AUC shirt on.

Bdallas was on the same flight, although I did not see him, as he commented last night about enjoying the delay.

SXMScubaman, e-collars are a great training device is used properly. They are not what you would typically train a service/support dog with. They are also dangerous to the dog when in the wrong human hands. I have worked with some dogs that seem to lose the ability or desire to bark as they have been so harshly trained.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221698
03/18/2020 02:02 PM
03/18/2020 02:02 PM
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Just for whatever: A friend in SXM flew in from Chicago on a non stop United flight. Flight was full and they needed one volunteer to give up their seat. Initial offer was $2000. They kept going up. Finally went to $10000 and some one took it. He was in a large family group going to Anguilla for 4 weeks. Next year he can take everybody!

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Bluesfan] #221699
03/18/2020 02:03 PM
03/18/2020 02:03 PM
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That is a hefty sum.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Bluesfan] #221702
03/18/2020 02:10 PM
03/18/2020 02:10 PM
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$10000? Really? That's crazy/ I thought the $800 from Delta seemed a little low though.


Carol Hill
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Bluesfan] #221707
03/18/2020 02:25 PM
03/18/2020 02:25 PM
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Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221713
03/18/2020 03:09 PM
03/18/2020 03:09 PM
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When we were in the gate area waiting to board, two of the “service dogs” started to get into it a little bit (growling and some barking). I also noticed one of the dogs (not sure if it was one of the two growling) with a vest (not really much of a vest) that said “dog in training”. I’ve never seen a service dog be even a little bit aggressive. I’m just saying

Last edited by Bdallas; 03/18/2020 03:11 PM.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Bdallas] #221714
03/18/2020 03:11 PM
03/18/2020 03:11 PM
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Well the important thing is that all made it home without any dog fights or problems with those dogs.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Bdallas] #221721
03/18/2020 03:30 PM
03/18/2020 03:30 PM
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I heard them say the dogs were littler mates and less than 2 years old. Like I said, the loosely written ADA laws and the politicians that were behind them created this and it often messes it up for the legitimate working/service dogs.

Glad you made it back as well.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221725
03/18/2020 04:03 PM
03/18/2020 04:03 PM
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First, glad you got out of Beirut. Cold rainy and no fun here. But you’re home

Poor dogs.

It was basically an evacuation flight.

Should they have left the dogs behind?

Perhaps they paid/didnt pay for the dog had/didnt have containers to put them in the hold.

https://growingupguidepup.org/pet-or-service-dog-that-is-the-question/


I think I applaud the gate agents/ flight attendants who may have thought outside the box to get all beings home.

Their are some bad dogs for sure, but I bet those dogs knew how lucky they were to be on that plane for 4 hour ride without a potty break.

If they had growled or barked at people onboard that might mean something or they bit somebody.


Almost All dogs go to heaven. And they have to go through Atlanta to get there.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: PelicanPirate] #221728
03/18/2020 04:11 PM
03/18/2020 04:11 PM
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Thank you. I don't personally have a problem with the dogs but others may have. The one near me was very quiet. I see the service dog thing flaunted way too much here in the states. I believe in playing by the rules and as one who travels often with a dog or two, I have never even attempted to pass them off as anything other than pets or competition dogs to save a fee at the motel.

Just curious as to your thoughts on the ATL gate agent(s) allowing 3 US citizens to board who could NOT enter SXM and cause a 1 hour delay of the passengers who did things the right way and some of whom likely missed connections due to the delay.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221729
03/18/2020 04:18 PM
03/18/2020 04:18 PM
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Would Global Entry have made any difference getting through C&I in Atlanta?

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Jaybird] #221731
03/18/2020 04:28 PM
03/18/2020 04:28 PM
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Not that I could tell. I do not have it but those that did got through C & I a little quicker but I was through just the C & I process in less than 5 minutes once I got to it. I basically walked up to an open kiosk, did that part and was only 8-10 people ahead of me and we were directed to multiple lines of which I walked right up without any wait. The bigger slowdown was TSA but they basically treated (and announced it) everyone as Pre-Check. I put everything in my carry on, emptied my pockets as instructed, kept my belt and shoes on and went through. The line there was 20 min. or so to get to the scanners. As I stated, the lack of attention to the line due to most people solely focused on their texting kept it from running as smooth as it should have.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221735
03/18/2020 05:00 PM
03/18/2020 05:00 PM
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Thank you for the info. Were you subject to or did you see any health screening?

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221738
03/18/2020 05:10 PM
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Dont have enough info on why they weren't Supposed to be allowed. broke quarantine? Recent China, italy, europe, uk travel?

was it some obvious rule broken with info well known to agent or something gray and undefined.

Folks, if we thought 9-11 was bad and Irma were bad, this is far beyond that. We are lucky anybody is doing anything for anybody when the invisble enemy is at hand.

Kroger, walmart, sams club. Those people should get triple pay. Mcdonalds, wendys small shops same thing.

Er Nurses, oh my, they should be getting $150k plus right now up front to come to work. Right NOW!




Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Jaybird] #221739
03/18/2020 05:10 PM
03/18/2020 05:10 PM
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None at all. Very few people wearing masks, some wearing gloves but no screening at all.

I did see a guy in the local Kroger today dressed in hunting gear, a few with gloves on but no masks.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: PelicanPirate] #221740
03/18/2020 05:13 PM
03/18/2020 05:13 PM
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Pelican--JD has a unique perspective on this 'service dog' situation, as he has competed nationwide in dock diving competitions for close to ten years. (And won several national championships, by the way...) His dogs are black labs, so the only way they could travel in the passenger cabin is if he would LIE and say that they are either emotional support animals (which is a crock in general) or service dogs, which they are not. However, there are MANY people who compete in these national competitions that LIE and say that their animals are ESA's, so that they can take their dogs in the passenger cabin, and for free. So, he has that kind of background to this situation.

As far as dogs going to heaven, that's for sure. No one doubts that. It's the humans who shouldn't get there, in many cases..

At the end of the day, I would say that, in THIS circumstance, I personally don't have a problem with the dogs on the flight, because it was in essence an evacuation flight..


Carol Hill
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Carol_Hill] #221746
03/18/2020 05:19 PM
03/18/2020 05:19 PM
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Thank you and I agree on all accounts.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Carol_Hill] #221806
03/18/2020 09:19 PM
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Yeah, we've had 5 labs and a yorkie. All but 1 still alive, the first. Confession time.

The first dog in the 90s was a good old blockhead who did some damage. I sent him to 3 week boarding training and he came out knowing german, english and sign language. He could count to five, put his arms under arrest, and would stay for hours at one point. He could get a beverage out if the fridge. Our friends and neighbors were impressed that the trainer got so many referrals that he was doing NFL QB and LB protection dogs and driving a red sportscar from italy.

We got so many referral credits that he became a protection dog and learned russian and latin for certain functions and he learned to be a good drug sniffer and had made some rounds through some schools with the trainer and rescue dog who never did a real work because he was a me tal therapist to the family.

That dog didnt need a prong collar but when he was trained with it and new it meant he was going to work.

Our current labs are just nice uneducated dogs.

As for the yorkie, he is the most dominant. We have always paid his way on a plane but he has been to rain forest cafe at disney springs, hooters, sonnys bar b q, airboat rides, college football games,etc. my boss has said he is one but he has never worn a fake suit. Always perfect behavior like a service dog, you wiuld t know he is there,unless you offer him a bone during dinner at sonny's. He now gets ignored until we are in the car.

In the last 6 months various retailers who used to give him a treat now reject him (menards) while others still welcome him. We also had a legally blind teenage girl without her dog challenge us in the walmart parking lot as we were leaving as she said it makes it harder for her to bring her service dog in the store as it evidently does get distracted.

So, we are not clean as the driven snow on the service dog front.




Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221824
03/19/2020 09:10 AM
03/19/2020 09:10 AM
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It has been very frustrating. However, My experience with Delta was better than yours. We arrived 3/7-3/28 staying on Simpson’s Beach. We flew JB. On the 17 th they sent an email saying your flight is cancelled which we had found out by searching the website. They offered no alternatives. I have been to airport three days in a row working with Delta. They were very helpful but best date home is 4/1. Based on what I am hearing I am better off here. But I guess I feel better at my own house when I am stressed. The condo is available to us as long as needed. Obviously, no one can get here!!

So please everyone stay healthy. We will all get home eventually.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: garymoe] #221825
03/19/2020 09:19 AM
03/19/2020 09:19 AM
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gary--If you still want out, you can try to get on the Jet Blue flight today, just announced.


Carol Hill
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: garymoe] #221826
03/19/2020 09:30 AM
03/19/2020 09:30 AM
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From what I recall and it may have changed, Delta was supposed to have a flight today and again on Sat. I found checking their site multiple times an hour to provide the best results. Good luck on whatever you decide.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Carol_Hill] #221827
03/19/2020 09:35 AM
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Thank you for info. However, the thought of going through JFK to get to Boston t get home to Maine is worrisome. I feel more secure knowing I am on a flight that terminates in Boston. In these times, nothing is “ for certain” except I will never fly JB again. And once I get home, I will. Intact their customer service. I know it won’t make a speck of difference it will make me feel better. The only thing that that will resonate with JB is $$.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: garymoe] #221828
03/19/2020 09:42 AM
03/19/2020 09:42 AM
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I am looking at Delta's site right now and it is showing availability (5 seats) for TODAY and I am sure they will go fast.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221831
03/19/2020 10:26 AM
03/19/2020 10:26 AM
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Upstate, NY
Even though JB cancelled your original flight, I think you still have to cancel the itinerary prior to the original travel date to get the money put in their travel bank.

Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: Mikel] #221841
03/19/2020 10:59 AM
03/19/2020 10:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,151
Ohio
ruralcarrier Offline OP
Traveler
ruralcarrier  Offline OP
Traveler
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,151
Ohio
That is what I did in the case of my cancelled Delta flight for tomorrow. Even though they cancelled, I went into my account and cancelled it myself. It would not let me change the cancelled flight to another day so I went ahead and booked and will deal with the refund/credit towards the second ticket I purchased over the next week or two. I would do as much as possible to "play by" their cancellation rules as possible.


J.D.
Re: 3/17 Delta Experience/3 pax Allowed to Board in ATL/Denied Entry to SXM [Re: ruralcarrier] #221847
03/19/2020 11:38 AM
03/19/2020 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,253
Massachusetts
boucharda Online content
Traveler
boucharda  Online Content
Traveler
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,253
Massachusetts
Delta did (does) have a flight today as mentioned (to BOS through ATL) but Saturday's looks either off or full. JB is showing nothing (as of now)

After this w/e there will be nothing (so far) for around seven or so weeks but Delta did state MAY BE possible flights during that time

Last edited by boucharda; 03/19/2020 11:40 AM.

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