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Charter Etiquette/Question
#271413
12/17/2021 12:56 AM
12/17/2021 12:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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I posted on TA but it was suggested I post here as there are more charterers.
We are currently on a charter—our second in the past 5 years, both in the BVIs. The experiences with the crew were quite different. I’m wondering which is customary. The second situation has been a bit off putting and left us feeling a somewhat taken advantage of, but it’s entirely possible that we are novices unfamiliar with the proper etiquette of chartering.
Both half board. The first was not owner operated, the owner had two employees living aboard but he was not on board himself. The second that we are on now is owner operated. First time it was just a trip for 2 adults. Second trip 4 adults. The first time we invited the crew to dine with us on island on one occasion but the other times they just dropped us at shore to do our own thing. The second trip the crew has made reservations for lunch and dinner on shore and always includes themselves, regardless of whether they were asked. We have probably spent an extra $1000 (probably more) for food and alcohol between all of the lunches and dinners they had with us on shore. At one restaurant they ordered two bottles of wine just for the two of them, which was of course added to our bill. Again, this second charter crew took it upon themselves to be included in the restaurants, all of which were upscale. We likely would have extended the offer for dinner on at least one occasion, lunch as well, but from the first reservation on they went ahead and made the decision for us.
Are we wrong to feel put off by the second experience? Is that typical, or was our first charter experience more typical. Otherwise the trip has been fine. But the expectation to pay for all of their meals in addition to the charter cost and tip seems odd to all of us.
For what it’s worth….There are many good reviews of our charter. None mentioned the dinners and lunches with the crew. None suggested any imposition. Which is why we are wondering if that’s just how it works?
Last edited by JJ23; 12/17/2021 01:14 AM.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271416
12/17/2021 03:08 AM
12/17/2021 03:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030 U.K. and Spain
Jeannius
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Definitely not usual for a crew to behave like that. My wife and I ran our boat as a crewed charter a few years back, also on a half board basis with most lunches aboard at anchor or moored, and evening meals were ashore at a restaurant. We would never have invited ourselves out with the guests without being asked. And, if asked, we would certainly not have drunk one bottle of wine, never mind two! They are not only inconsiderate but endangering the guests by consuming that much alcohol while in charge of the boat and your safety.
Last edited by Jeannius; 12/17/2021 03:13 AM.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271426
12/17/2021 09:41 AM
12/17/2021 09:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 816 Kannapolis, NC
ndfaninnc
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"They are not only inconsiderate but endangering the guests by consuming that much alcohol while in charge of the boat and your safety."
That is the first thing I took from the original post. Not safe at all. I would do just as bailau & MIDiver just posted.
Go Irish!!
Bill
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271427
12/17/2021 09:49 AM
12/17/2021 09:49 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 170 Southeast of Disorder
Time Will Tell
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That is definitely bogus - and yes, potentially dangerous. Sounds to me like you have already tipped them!
Common sense is definitely not a common virtue.
Peter s/y Time Will Tell (2019 Lagoon 42) peter@syTimeWillTell.com
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: tradewinds]
#271435
12/17/2021 10:10 AM
12/17/2021 10:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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Name the boat and complain to the owner. The boat for this current charter is owner operated. The captain and his wife are the owners. I have no problem naming the boat…once we are off.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271437
12/17/2021 10:14 AM
12/17/2021 10:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 770 Kansas
captmoby
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Kansas
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How did you phrase the invite? Possibly they thought it to be a invite for the whole trip?
Jim Sailmoby II
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: captmoby]
#271439
12/17/2021 10:40 AM
12/17/2021 10:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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How did you phrase the invite? Possibly they thought it to be a invite for the whole trip? How did you phrase the invite? Possibly they thought it to be a invite for the whole trip? There never was an invite. We boarded at 5pm and ate on board the first night. The very first full day we went to Willy T’s. They came with us and immediately when we walked in they went up to order food and drinks under the boat name then never offered to contribute to the bill. Next day for lunch on shore they told us they made a reservation for “all 6 of us.” We were the only ones in the restaurant. It was very pricey (and we live in a major US city with $$ food) and they each ordered two drinks and food (including an appetizer for two) on our bill with the expectation that we pay. Went to CocoMaya on Virgin Gorda the next night. They made reservations for a table for 6. The two of them shared a bottle of wine then ordered another for the two of them, in addition to all of their food, and we got the bill. In their defense, we never objected until the last place where they had pre ordered lobster. Just before dinner we asked if we could have that meal alone just the 4 of us since we hadn’t yet had the chance. But by then we’d dropped at least 1k in food and drinks. And we only asked because we already had insight from others on TA that this was not customary.
Last edited by JJ23; 12/17/2021 10:46 AM.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JasonHelmbrecht]
#271447
12/17/2021 11:32 AM
12/17/2021 11:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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I do think it's customary for the guest to pay for meal ashore so the real question is about the invitation. Seems like a miscommunication somewhere since you haven't seen other complaints in their reviews. I guess if other guests mostly do full board they wouldn't have this experience. I'd guess the miscommunication started back with the initial booking and the half/full board conversation. Just guessing....
No comment on the alcohol topic as I don't even drink when I run my own boat. They told us when we booked that most of their guests book full board. But their sample itinerary included several recommended off shore restaurants. Having done this before as half board and enjoyed a few meals off the charter, we requested half board because we felt it would be silly to pay full board knowing we wanted to have several lunches and dinners on shore. And our contract specifies half board with the exact number of on shore meals we’d have. But from the reviews it sounds like all others have done full.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: Latadjust]
#271467
12/17/2021 12:12 PM
12/17/2021 12:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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Was the boat provisioned for enough meals for the crew to eat aboard? I would assume so. They live on the boat full time. But we weren’t responsible for buying provisions, it was all included in the cost (as was our first BVI charter several years back).
Last edited by JJ23; 12/17/2021 12:13 PM.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271554
12/19/2021 09:45 AM
12/19/2021 09:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 443 Virgin Gorda, BVI
VirginGordaResident
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Posts: 443
Virgin Gorda, BVI
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Too be fair, I highly doubt they are doing this maliciously or with malintent. It seems to me like an unfortunate miscommunication. They probably like you guys a lot and you've been really friendly and fun with them so they feel like you want them to come with you and in turn they want to come out with you!
My advice would be just to communicate with them your honest feelings. Keep it positive and upbeat but do let them know!
Last edited by VirginGordaResident; 12/19/2021 09:46 AM.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JJ23]
#271562
12/19/2021 03:49 PM
12/19/2021 03:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 687 Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
caribbeangirl13
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WOW! It is certainly a red flag that they drank that much. Did they move the boat after drinking or was the drinking done after the boat was set for the night? Pretty sure most captains for the major charter companies are either not allowed to drink at all or I think one told me he was allowed 2 drinks after the boat was safely set for the night. I do know that with most charter companies they say that you are responsible for the captain's meals but they do not specify that you have to take them with you to all the meals.
Sue s/v Ripple Leopard 40
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: caribbeangirl13]
#271574
12/20/2021 07:43 AM
12/20/2021 07:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
JJ23
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WOW! It is certainly a red flag that they drank that much. Did they move the boat after drinking or was the drinking done after the boat was set for the night? Pretty sure most captains for the major charter companies are either not allowed to drink at all or I think one told me he was allowed 2 drinks after the boat was safely set for the night. I do know that with most charter companies they say that you are responsible for the captain's meals but they do not specify that you have to take them with you to all the meals. Most times we were set for the night but once there were several drinks at lunch and we moved after. There’s nothing in the contract saying we are responsible for the captains meals. We ended up tipping 13%. By the end of the trip we all agreed that the captain and his wife did not make the experience a very good one for any of us. Drinking and eating on our dime aside, they just weren’t good.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: sunman60]
#271634
12/20/2021 06:17 PM
12/20/2021 06:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,359 Cane Garden Bay, Tortola
JasonHelmbrecht
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lots have been said about the over the top drinking by people in charge of a boat but I want to add this; you're chartering from them right? rather than a company; so they've had free bed and board for the duration of your holiday plus what they're making on the charter fees so in my mind that's enough. I'm a Brit so I know we have a different attitude towards tipping than some here but I wouldn't be giving any tip at all, in my opinion they've already had that, and some. Or to say it another way, you are vacation in their home. These are owner/operators. Have some respect and tip according to the local norms. You don't have to like it, that's why Motel 8 exists.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: JasonHelmbrecht]
#271635
12/20/2021 07:09 PM
12/20/2021 07:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 54 London, England
sunman60
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Posts: 54
London, England
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lots have been said about the over the top drinking by people in charge of a boat but I want to add this; you're chartering from them right? rather than a company; so they've had free bed and board for the duration of your holiday plus what they're making on the charter fees so in my mind that's enough. I'm a Brit so I know we have a different attitude towards tipping than some here but I wouldn't be giving any tip at all, in my opinion they've already had that, and some. Or to say it another way, you are vacation in their home. These are owner/operators. Have some respect and tip according to the local norms. You don't have to like it, that's why Motel 8 exists. I'm sorry I've pinched a nerve here Jason but if you read back up this thread you'll see that you, and others don't drink on a rental like this, never mind drinking copious amounts and charging it to the guests. So no, I'm sorry, if they were drinking at lunch, and dinner as we've read then local norms go out the window imo, some people suggest adjusting the tip to take account of the excessive spending and I agree, at least.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: LocalSailor]
#271677
12/21/2021 05:21 PM
12/21/2021 05:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,426 Washington DC
bailau
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Washington DC
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This situation could have been resolved the 1st time it happened with some open communication of everyone's expectations for the week. Maybe if they were regulars...but OP was 2nd time charterer and last time was 5 years ago... They don't know what they don't know. They do now and imagine if they get back down it will be different because (1) it isn't the norm or even close or (2) they will speak up. In addition it shouldn't be on the "guest" to have to tell the "owner" what the owner should already know and is customary.
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: bailau]
#271680
12/21/2021 06:21 PM
12/21/2021 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 749 Panama City Beach, Florida
xrayman67
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This situation could have been resolved the 1st time it happened with some open communication of everyone's expectations for the week. Maybe if they were regulars...but OP was 2nd time charterer and last time was 5 years ago... They don't know what they don't know. They do now and imagine if they get back down it will be different because (1) it isn't the norm or even close or (2) they will speak up. In addition it shouldn't be on the "guest" to have to tell the "owner" what the owner should already know and is customary. Well said!
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: bailau]
#271682
12/21/2021 06:49 PM
12/21/2021 06:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 687 Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
caribbeangirl13
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Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
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This situation could have been resolved the 1st time it happened with some open communication of everyone's expectations for the week. Maybe if they were regulars...but OP was 2nd time charterer and last time was 5 years ago... They don't know what they don't know. They do now and imagine if they get back down it will be different because (1) it isn't the norm or even close or (2) they will speak up. In addition it shouldn't be on the "guest" to have to tell the "owner" what the owner should already know and is customary. Completely agree! Still would like to know the name of the boat so I don't steer anyone in that direction! Feel free to PM me.
Sue s/v Ripple Leopard 40
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: bailau]
#271766
12/22/2021 06:47 PM
12/22/2021 06:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 687 Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
caribbeangirl13
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Vail, CO/St. Thomas, USVI
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Not asking them to publicly call them out but it would be nice to know not to send someone their way, which is why I said PM me instead of call it out on here. Either way, I am happy with whatever they are comfortable with.
Sue s/v Ripple Leopard 40
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Re: Charter Etiquette/Question
[Re: caribbeangirl13]
#271811
12/23/2021 10:13 AM
12/23/2021 10:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,426 Washington DC
bailau
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Washington DC
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Not asking them to publicly call them out but it would be nice to know not to send someone their way, which is why I said PM me instead of call it out on here. Either way, I am happy with whatever they are comfortable with. agree...and understand you weren't asking for and would like to know as well as we refer many people to the BVIs
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