TravelTalkOnline Forums Travel and Vacation Forums British Virgin Islands Fishing pole baggage question!

Flying to STT for my BVI charter this summer on Delta. Want to bring my trolling rod and in the tube it's 67" long. Delta site says up to 62" is considered regular checked baggage and is $25. I'm 5" over so I called them and got some guy that does not seem confident with the info he gave me. They allow up to 115" but 63" to 80" is over sized and is an additional $200 EACH WAY!. Skis can be over 80" and are not charged extra! My brother just went skiing in Utah and they even waived the baggage fee for skis. Any alternative suggestions? There are no real options I'm aware of for buying a travel trolling rod. They are usually one piece. Does anyone ever ship items down by FedEx to Moorings? Worry about a hold up in customs.

I'm aware of LastStopSports but really want to bring my own. I've heard rentals aren't in great shape. Now someone at Delta said to put it in a ski bag!

A good alternative to a trolling rod is a hand line. I have used these good success. They are great at catching fish and take up a lot less room. http://waaycool.com/

Didn't an earlier post state the Moorings boats are not licensed for fishing, as required by regulation?

I checked with Fed X for the same thing and the cost was more than double the quote from the airlines. I ended up renting a rod in the BVI

You're right! I just called Moorings and they (Gov't not Moorings) aren't allowing any fishing. They said the BVI Gov sprang this on everyone with no notice and they are still trying to decide what to do with their fleet. All crewed boats have been registered but no bareboats. My trip isn't until late August so hopefully things will change by then. Unbelievable.

I talked to someone at BVI Conservation and Fisheries to see what the registration fee would be so I could offer to pay it for the boat owner if they would be willing to register. They "thought" it was $70. Then I spoke with someone at MarineMax to see if their boats were registered and she thought the fee was $30,000 for a commercial fishing registration! No one seems to know anything!

We have registered our boat in the past. I don't remember the exact fee but it was very reasonable, the $70 sounds about right for a one year permit for pleasure fishing.

Get used to it. The BVI government lacks the cash to pay the invoices coming in each month. During the month of February the ruling powers promised to fix this with >$20M in new revenue for fees, licenses, and better collections of the fees and such on the books. The recent revelations and promised cracked downs on hidden accounts will only make this worse.

They are not talking about a permit, it a new law. The boat must be"registered to fish" whatever that means. No way it's 30K as TMM registered all their boats. I have no idea what private owners would do. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Actually a 1997 law they never enforced or collected on when it came to charter boats of visiting yachtsmen. There is no simple cut and paste here. The registration for the boat is dependent on size and flag. I would link the forms for you but that would only get me flamed. You fill out the correct form for your boat and record you credit card number. The amount is not posted on the form. The nice government professionals will just bill you the correct amount based on the particulars of your boat. I read that as use a local law firm to register your boat properly. The original intent of the law was to go after the USVI docks, fueled, maintained, wined and dined power boats staying on St. Thomas and fishing off the BVI. Along comes 2015/16 where the BVI can no longer find the cash to pay vendor bills. So old laws will be enforced and fees raised at the same time to create >$20M. Expat Work Permits are targeted and charter/tourist boats are targeted.

Maybe I should have called it a permit. My bad! But then maybe it a new law?

If we want to be the vocabulary police. There are two issues with people fishing near the BVI. Any individual touching a pole or line much like the US must have their own BVI fishing license. Once you have an individual or personal fishing license only they can you fish from a boat that has taken the steps to register the actual vessel or hull as a "fishing vessel". The registration process and costs are different based on the size and flag of the vessel. As a person get you fishing licence then find a boat registered properly for you to fish from. A had personal angst with the nickle and dime confusion hard to do business with approach. I would prefer the BVI decide what they want people doing when they are on boats and bundle all of that in a single annual cruising fee for the boat.

It's a new law. The Moorings plans on registering their boats but at the moment it requires the owner to do it. They are in discussions with the BVI to pay the fees straight from the company.
The recent offshore account scandal may turn out to be devastating for the BVI. We may now see a worldwide crackdown and new disclosure requirements. It could kill the BVI's golden goose.

1997 British Virgin Islands Fisheries Act

COMMERCIAL, SPORT AND PLEASURE FISHING requires a fishing license and the boat you are fishing from must be registered (VI Fisheries Regulations Part I & II.

from 2003 press coverage:

B.V.I. authorities seized the 38-foot Black Pearl on June 13 on the North Drop during the Virgin Islands Gamefishing Club's annual June Moon tournament.
The boat owner, Scott Niddrie of St. Thomas, and its captain, Jimmy Estrasa, were later charged with fishing in B.V.I. waters without a license and registration, crimes that carry a maximum penalty of a $500,000 fine.
Magistrate Gail Charles on Tuesday signed a consent order agreed to by the B.V.I. Attorney General's Office and lawyers representing Niddrie and Estrasa. Under its terms, the boat will be released after its owners pay a $15,000 cash bond to the court.
Oscar Ramjeet, a lawyer representing Niddrie and Estrasa, said the money would be paid immediately so the boat could be released as soon as possible.

Old law with new or renewed plans to enforce the old law along with many others. There is stuff on new enforcement and fees each day in the BVI now. Yesterday booze and computer duties were the story.

It appears to me that they are taking the regulations and skewing them in an effort to collect more permits and fees. The actual regulations don't actually define what is considered a "Fishing Vessel". I would think that the intent would be (and apparently has been till now) that a "Fishing Vessel" would mean a boat that is specifically and intentionally in BVI waters for the purpose of fishing. I would not think this pertains to all the charter boats.

I can certainly understand their desire to "tax" both foreign and local fishing boats where their primary purpose in BVI waters to fish including sport and commercial fishing boats but I think they are stretching what the regs intended.

Here is the link to the actual regulations. The fees for the boat and individual licenses are at in "Schedule 3 Fees".

http://faolex.fao.org/docs/pdf/bvi140127.pdf

Agree, The 1997 Law does not define "Fishing Vessel". There is also a 2003 revision I have never found or read. What is stated is the requirement for any "fishing license" to be attached to a registered fishing vessel.

"After a vessel has been registered or at the same time as an application is submitted for registration, an application may be submitted to the Chief Conservation and Fisheries Officer for a local fishing licence, which application shall be in Form 4 of Schedule 1.

"No local fishing licence shall be granted unless the vessel to which it relates qualifies as a local fishing vessel as defined in section 2 of the Act.""

The chicken or egg is clear in the law. First you register the boat, only then can you register(license) anyone to fish from that boat specifically including those fishing under (3) "A pleasure fishing licence shall entitle the licensee to fish for personal consumption up to a maximum of 30 pounds per boat."

Certainly not easy to do business with!

If you continue to the fee schedules that go with the "Pleasure Fishing License" it does make sense. The fees we pay for our "pleasure fishing licenses" are determined based on the size, flag, and base of the actual boat. The fees for a less than 26 foot BVI boat based in the BVI would be $45. The fees for a 45ft US Flagged boat running out of St. Thomas would be $300. The numbers are all over the chart using the three variables (size,flag,base).

I have championed for a long time for the BVI powers that be to determine what they want visitors doing on boats and then including all those activities under a single simple cruising permit fee.

Maybe as the fees and charges go up that will happen. Here is a cut and paste from a recent local press article:

“Our expectations are, that in combination with the measures taken, we are projecting total additional revenue of $26.2M,” Premier Smith announced.

"Government also plans to introduce an environmental levy and to harmonise the existing fee and tax structure for hotels and yachts. There are plans to also review and revise the current marine fees structure by consolidating existing fees and creating a collection system."

At the end of the day the BVI leadership has determined they must increase revenues that add up to $600-$900 per resident. The current approach is to pass much of that onto the boat people somehow.

carry a maximum penalty of a $500,000 fine.

for fishing? unbelieveable <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> only the BVI

StormJib - I think the link I posted is for the 2003 version of the regulations.

I really don't mind paying some fees and permits when I feel that I am getting something out of it. But this is just a blatant effort to increase revenue that (from what I see) will not in anyway improve the product upon which the fees are being levied. It would be different if these fees were going to VISAR or a boating service or something. I could understand but that doesn't appear to be the case.

JBOOTHE I will stand corrected the doc you provide clearly has both dates.

STATUTORY INSTRUMENT 2003 NO. 20
FISHERIES ACT, 1997
(No. 4 of 1997)
Fisheries Regulations, 2003
[Gazetted 19th June, 2003]
The Minister, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by section 79 of the
Fisheries Act, 1997, makes the following Regulations:....

No one likes rising taxes or charges of any kind. In the 40 plus years I have traveled to the BVI and across the Caribbean there have clearly been investments and improvements in infrastructure. Roads, bridges, road safety, schools, hospitals and more have all improved in a unique way. Probably most important to us on the water. Potable water and greater sanitary sewage have improved. All of that costs money. Across the US we have witnessed states and local government raisings sales and property taxes to cover the ever growing need for local operating cash. The BVI and USVI are no different. In January the USVI raise the taxes to 12.5% on anything anyone sleeps in for less than 90 days. The USVI’s hotel room tax is 12.5 percent of the gross room rental, meaning it includes the gross room rate plus any additional charges such as energy surcharges and maintenance fees.

"Crucially, the tax applies to every guest that resides in a hotel, villa, timeshare, inn or any other sleeping accommodation for less than 90 days."

I know many wish the Caribbean would return to the 1950's. The majority of the residents have no interest in that. Time and needs more forward. That can only happen if the BVI can find greater revenue somewhere. Hopefully the yachting lobby can get their collaborative act together and get the best possible outcome for the new taxes and fees that are certainly on their way in the BVI.

My push is to bundle the charges as simply as possible at the lowest total cost to everyone. If jobs must be created. Create those jobs in real maintenance and rational enforcement. Keep the moorings sound and eliminate the anchoring anywhere near sensitive areas.

Just got a further update from Conservation and Fisheries that the fee is $110. I am going to offer to pay this if Moorings could contact the owner. Seems like a great way to get their boats registered. Enough people want to fish that eventually all the boats will be registered each time someone books a charter on a boat that's not yet registered. No cost to Moorings or the owners! If you don't fish then they don't charge the fee to your charter. Simple. I know there was a possibility that I would "Feel The Burn" on my vacation. I just thought it would come from the sun not the tax man.

What happens if The Moorings substitutes boats? Who is going to do this part?

"Owners are responsible for having the letters and numbers detailed to their vessel conspicuously painted on the top and sides part of the vessel."

I suggest something like this...

http://www.dannysbonefishing.com/

no way to compare bone fishing for $400 to trolling off the back of a boat. Good point on Moorings as the boat name is not guaranteed until you get there.

Very true. They won't even give you any info on the specific boat until you get there.

Hi, first post on here. I found this forum while researching for my trip to the BVI in mid June for my hooneymoon. I'll be bareboating a Power Cat 39 from the Moorings and had planned on taking several fishing rods for trolling and one spinning rod.

I was going to get a cheap two piece travel rod for the trolling and spinning, but now I may not have to due to the new rules by the BVI government. I just talked to the Moorings vacation planner about the fishing, and I was told that they are trying to fix the issue, but as of right now I couldn't fish from the boat during my trip.

They are trying to figure out a solution to the issue. I made the suggestion that I would pay for the boat registration so I could fish, but was told it isn't just a quick fix and they couldn't guarantee me a specific boat.

I'm disappointed by the situation since offshore fishing is a passion of mine and it was going to be a highlight for me going after Wahoo, tuna, and Mahi. I'm not mad at Moorings since it was thrust onto them by the BVI government. If you think about it the BVI is loosing money by not giving the charter companies a grace period to get their fleet registered. If I can't fish then I won't be purchasing four fishing licenses, nor will I be paying taxes on fishing gear, and frozen bait. Times that by xx number of charters a week and they will loose a chunk of money they could have gotten just by giving a grace period to the charter companies.

FL Marine - let's just hope they extend the grace period! I had the thought of offering to pay the registration fee and other's quickly pointed out that wouldn't work since Moorings doesn't assign the boat until last minute. I haven't charted with them before so I didn't even think of that. I'm not upset with Moorings either. I think in the long, long term the gov will make money on the registrations but lose big time in the short term with licenses and even those hard cord fishing lovers that decide to book somewhere else.

I got a similar response from Conch today:

"Conservation and Fisheries have changed their policy for fishing off of a vessel here in the BVI’s as of April 1st where not only the person has to hold a valid fishing license but that the vessel needs to be registered as a commercial fishing vessel. We have opted not to register any of our vessels which means that you will unfortunately not be able to fish from the boat. You can still obtain a fishing license if you wish but will have to enjoy the sport from docks or land when you reach safe anchorage."

Maybe this is a good reason linger in USVI waters (or charter from USVI next time).

Just wondering .... If a charter customer is caught fishing from a non-licensed charter boat, who gets the citation (assuming the charter customer holds a valid BVI pleasure fishing license)? Is the charter customer responsible for the boat being licensed, or is the charter company, or is it the boat owner? Many charter boats currently have a rod holder installed .... wow, what a mess. I just sent Voyage Charters an email asking for their take on the subject.

I even called up the BVI Ministry of Natural Resources today after I posted earlier. I asked if there was going to be a grace period for the registration requirement. I was told no mon. Hopefully the Moorings will fix the issue by mid june.

Guess I'll have to focus on my soon to be new wife during our honey moon there. There are worse things in life then not being able to fish in the BVI.

Seriously, for all the "butt hurtedness" about not being able to fish, speaking from experience, the fishing isnt't that great. Sure, you'll hook into something worth keeping every once in awhile, but don't let this ruin your charter.
I've caught Tuna in the channel and Mahi comin around Steel Point, and a crap load of Bonito and Barracuda.

I'm new here and I'm not letting this ruin my charter, but some of us take fishing a little more seriously than others. I grew up fishing inshore and offshore in southwest Florida and have fished all over the world. I just love trolling for wahoo, tuna, and mahi. Even if I don't catch one I love it.

Just as some of you are as passionate about spending time in the BVI some of us are that passionate about fishing. The fishing part was a big part of me going to the BVI, though on this trip not the main part. It's frustrating, and if you don't get the fishing part don't knock the passion of others who do. That would be like me saying I don't get why you guys like sailing, it isn't that great. I'm a power boat guy, but I've done sailing. Just because I'm not passionate about sailing doesn't mean I don't understand why many people are.

Just received word from Voyage Charters, and they are in the process of obtaining licenses for their fleet.

I think if fishing is your primary goal, the BVI might not be your best choice of charter location anyway. But it sounds as though the charter companies will eventually get caught up with this ridiculous law.

Edit: Is it an annual fee? I just noticed that the fee is only $110 per boat, which is really not very much as far as anything that goes into a boat! The charter companies should just charge a small additional fee to everyone who wants to fish to cover it, what's the big deal?

We're pretty frustrated with the fishing situation in the BVI, even before the whole boat registration fiasco. Its just not very good. I called about getting our boat registered 18 months ago and was told that was just for commercial or recreational boats owned by residents. I would need to get a license for every visit. Well, half true.

We've had great success fishing between St. Thomas and Culebra and the south drop between St. Thomas and St. John has been good.

In January we ran lines one day from Anegada to Jost and tried for Kingfish Banks, but the wind and swell was a bit much. In March we didn't bother.

I love fishing and Sweet Christine loves catching. We'll have our lines out when we sail south in June.

Cheers, RickG

The problem for the Moorings is it appears each owner must apply for the permit. Getting 400 owners to do so will not be easy. As others have posted all of this is unneccessary. They can simply add a line to the cruising permit. Fishing, yes or no. Check yes and pay a fee set by the government. They would raise more money and would not need to hire a single additional bureaucrat.

my husband always packs rods that come apart & they work fine if the problem you are worried about is the weight with the airlines

The issue is a law that has been on the books since 1997 that requires each boat that does any fishing to be registered to fish in the BVI. No matter what size or how much fishing the boat must be registered if any fishing is done. The registered boat must paint numbers on top and the sides. A log of all fishing must be kept. Any registered boat for fishing can then apply for the individual fishing licences many have talked about here for years. According to the law the fishing licenses always went with the registered boat. The price of the individual fishing license is set by the size, flag, and base of the boat your license will be attached to. BOOM! comes 2016 the BVI announces they will either enforce the entire law or maybe just more of the law? At the same time the BVI announces the BVI will raise and simplify marine fees with no specific details. I can see why the large, wise, prudent operator of boats in the BVI would pause until the specific enforcement is announced. The BVI does have a sporadic history of stopping USVI boats then arresting and seizing any boats without all the paperwork. What is the going forward law and regulation and what parts will be enforced going forward against recreational and visiting yachtsman?

From the Law:

"Unless otherwise stated, or the context otherwise requires, all fees apply to all categories of persons and vessels, and are annual."

StormJib I realize how the newly-enforced law works, but aside from the owner having to make the application (which I did not know & would indeed be a real PITA), it seems like getting every boat in the fleet registered & passing along a portion of the fee to those wanting to fish (in addition to their individual licenses) would be the way to go. As for logging the fishing, as utterly ridiculous as that is, an onboard log can't be that difficult.

But I agree that it makes sense for the large companies to just wait & "encourage" the government to get their you-know-what together.

Just as The Moorings have tried to tell owners and customers. These changes are very complex. The core is an increase in revenue the boat community will pay to own, sail, sleep on, charter, rent, visit with, and also sometimes fish on.

If you read the law if you fish on a boat that boat must be clearly marked with flag and numbers you can see from the water and air. We have US states that demand the same. The BVI did not invent this in 1997.

paint the vessels State flag in a manner that is
clearlyvisible from the sea and air;
(iii) display in a manner that is clearly visible fromthe
sea and air the vessel's international radio call sign; and(iv) display in a manner that is clearly visible from the sea and air the number assigned to the vessel in its
licence or on any regional register established under section 32 (1) (f) of the Act;

&#61623; Owners are responsible for having the letters and numbers detailed to their vessel conspicuously painted on the top and sides part of the vessel.

The large fleet operators and their lawyers more than get the risk. There will be some lobbying on both sides to settle just how much more boat owners, charter operators, and unilaterally many customers will pay more than they pay today to visit the BVI, Those numbers will settle closer to the new USVI rate of 12.5% that everyone pays to sleep on St. Thomas and St. John.

We won't be fishing now, which will cost the BVI government $135 in lost revenue.
I suspect that a lot of people will feel the same way, and that the BVI will just lose revenue in the end for being so greedy.