Just curious if anyone has given much thought to liability concerns while chartering a boat. It's not really clear to me what I'm covered for and what I'm not. I know the charter company has liability insurance that covers damage to the boat and certain property, but my bigger concern is liability in terms of people - both on our boat and not. Of course I wouldn't charter if I thought there was any reasonable chance that things would go seriously wrong, but still we are dealing with Mother Nature and some factors are beyond our control. Beyond that, people aren't perfect and even the best of us can make a mistake from time to time. So, what if the worse case happens and there is an accident that injures (or worse) one of my non-family crew? What are the potential ramifications and what would I be covered through the charter company insurance and/or my home insurance? Any travel policies or other insurance that would cover something like that? I know it's kind of a dark subject for a generally upbeat forum, but if anything ever did happen the last thing I want to be thinking about are financial concerns. FWIW, my job deals a lot with risk management so it's in my nature to worry about what can go wrong.

Thanks,

Matt

I know for CYOA we need a special permission/waiver for Anegada. Never been denied it, I am guessing we just needed to show a higher level of seamanship/navigation.

To answer the possibilities of those questions you would need several different lawyers with expertise in several areas of the law or a global full service law firm that includes at least an Admiralty Practice.

The list of variables is very long. Most likely you would be dealing with a third party owned boat(s), a third party or parties operator. British Law in the BVI territory.

One mitigator to some of the risk is most on the boat crews would have to find a local attorney and travel back to the BVI to attempt to sue all those involved with witnesses that may be all over the globe by the time the attorney is retained.

That might not be true with a "distracted" skipper who motored over something like a local fisherman?

The best solution for anyone residing in the United States is a good liability policy associated with your primary residence backed up by a solid liability umbrella for anything you or your family is ever sued for. The most important part of the those umbrella and homeowners policies is the guarantee to defend you and your family against any lawsuit. In very simple terms you want your own coverage to always defend you and your family should anyone claim you or your family has somehow damaged them. You want the best lawyer in the room on your side. You do not want to be the only one in the out of town court without a lawyer to be you. NOTE: Not all policies will cover you in a rented or non owned vehicle. If you travel or have an active life you do not want that policy. Others may not back you up globally including posting a bond to get you out of foreign custody. You do not want that policy. You want two policies that will back you up against all claims globally.

As the boats get larger and the loads grow to enormous levels the risks do go up. The loads on a catamaran main are very high. Power winches can do very catastrophic damage to those that do not use the proper position and procedure to operate them. There is one tragic example of a wife at the dock in Antigua tragically harmed forever by a power winch that was not properly operated. Every crew has some risk with the windlass, powered winches, and the boats moving in the crowded anchorages coupled with swimmers. You should have your own insurance providers back you and your family up there. That is true whether you are the victim or the accused.

Much depends on the specific conditions of your mishap.

If you're drunk and sink a boat with loss of life you'll be in a big heap-o-trouble and maybe liable for the full price of the boat, personal injury damages ($ millions) and perhaps even criminal charges.

If things simply get away from you and you ding a keel, you'll probably lose your deposit, and maybe even the balance of your trip if the damage is so bad you can't sail the boat. (Consider bringing a boat back with 2-feet of keel missing and asking if they will give you a new boat!).

Bottom line - If you sail like you would if the rule is "you break it, you bought it" you'll probably be fine.

You should check with your charter company. My boat is starting it's first charter in October. As an owner I was very concerned about liability so I have read the "blah blah blah" policy as carefully as possible. At CYOA at least - and I'm assuming this is true at other charter companies as well but this is only an assumption - the charterer, charter base, and owner are all covered under the insurance policy for not only boat damage but also personal liability. The personal liability insurance has a rider policy for more personal liability insurance - intended to protect everyone involved.

So check with your charter operator - pretty sure you'll sleep better at night after you understand the built in coverage.

Ditto on StormJib.

Homeowner's and a $5 million umbrella for the liability.
Property damage policy through charter company but deductible was around $6k I think. There is also a reckless or gross negligence clause in there.

My buddy who is the head charterer of four equally qualified and participating families has a hold harmless agreement and joint liability with his three friends because of they way the charter agreement is written placing all liability on the head charterer.

It is worth discussing with your attorney and insurance agent if you have any net worth.

Reading this made me follow up on that umbrella liability policy we've been talking about for the last year.

The key on the umbrella is any exclusions. Make sure you are covered for what you rent and do not own with a motor.

Thanks for the post; All fun and games, UNTIL...

Well ..I found it difficult for two major US insurers to cover a charter boat or land property in the BVI...they will do it for a year in our experience..and not reinsure on an umbrella policy the next. good news is that the charter co. We were with had a 5 mil liability policy . Those are deep pockets and it is unlikely an owner is going to be on the hook beyond that. Was the reason we frequently brought down fire/Carbon monoxide detectors to place on our boat. The only likely way there would be a huge judgement in BVi I.

I think the original question was on the end of skipper and family chartering the boat from the owner or operator...

Did you take the steps to formally have yourself named on the 3rd party insurance policy?

Thanks for the responses. Reason I posted is because we are brining three of my 15 year old sons friends down with us next summer. I never gave it much thought when we had entire families with us in the past, but being responsible for three other kids safety makes me think a bit more. As I said, I wouldn't so this unless I felt it was perfectly safe, but at the same time I do make sure I have car insurance when I don't expect I'll get in an accident and home owners insurance even though I don't expect my house to burn down. I think I'll check up on my umbrella policy and see what It covers.

Matt

Have their parents sign a waiver of liability.

My experience with BVI liability insurance is VERY negative. I had BVI liability insurance and when there was a claim, the insurance refused to cover. (Of course giving an excuse) Cost me out of pocket a HUGE amount of money. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

Yes for minors traveling with you, you are going to have some forms signed by the parents in advance to allow for travel, medical treatment, etc. Why not get a waiver in there as well.

I would be very interested in seeing that hold harmless agreement. Please shoot me a PM if you have the time.

The Moorings charter contract used to one page. The one I just got for our November trip is nine pages. Somehow I doubt any of the changes are in my favor.

I would check with your charter company as well and perhaps even have them send you their policy declaration if you feel unsure. It should indicate that you become a co-insured on the policy. Let's think about that for a second in context to the worrisome postings on this thread.... you become a co-insured under the same policy as the charter base operator. They feel comfortable operating a business year around year after year given this policy. Seems like you should be ok with the same risks that the charter base is willing to accept. If you are not a co-insured on the policy you should probably look for a different company to charter from IMHO.

Oh... and let me add one more thing...

I'm not trying to tell you to forego your own insurance. An umbrella policy is usually pretty affordable in my experience. Hard to have "too much" liability protection. Just trying to encourage you to check with your charter base 'cause you are likely already covered pretty well.

Question to anyone that has had experience with claims on Tortola

Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of large BVI settlements?

My impression has always been that suits/settlements are not nearly as extreme as in the USA and that the island is not nearly as litigious as the USA

Which - I guess - raises the question - if a loss occurred in BVI Territory - would it not be adjudicated on Tortola as well?

Doesn't excuse not having insurance - just a curious point

For me 8 years of litigation in USA even though the property is in the BVI. BVI insurance company just walked away and said sue us.

Just because the liability was in the BVI does not bring the case to the BVI. Plaintiffs chose where the litigation will take place. There were able to choose the USA as I used the internet to advertise. SUCKS! <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/smashpc.gif" alt="" />

I do not want to confuse business insurance with personal liability.

My original point is you never know who is going to accuse you or a family member of doing some damage. We should all have a solid general liability policy that will hire the right lawyer to defend us wherever we are accused.

Life is not just boats in the BVI. Let's say we do hire a boat with the best possible insurance in the USVI. At some point in the travels we move the boat to the BVI. Following the advice of many on this forum we rent a vehicle at one of out island stops. Dad or Mom quickly rent the local vehicle. Somewhere along the day one of the minors with us harms a local on a moped using the vehicle Mom or Dad rented. Who sorts that out for you? The Moorings or like policy? Or your personal liability underwriter or your personal credit card/wire transfer.

I encourage you to not look at insurance as a one trip thing. You should have a legal defense and liability underwriter for anything someone might try to accuse you or a family member of at home, school, or anyplace a plane or boat might bring you.

The above quote mentions one of the more obvious aspects of liability. If you have the income to charter in the BVI it's almost certain that you are woefully underinsured to drive a car in the US and you are at far greater risk doing so then you will ever be on a charter in the BVI. If you have teenagers driving the risk is compounded. 1 million liability is a drop in the bucket in a major accident with deaths. If you have assets you should have far more insurance then the standard recommendations or even worse the state required minimums.
G

George, I have learned that the best way to protect assets is to have them in separate trusts. i.e. you no longer own them and so they cannot be attached in litigation. So if you are sued personally in the BVI for an accident, your home in the USA is in a trust which cannot be attached. Same with a yacht, have it in a corporation or a trust.
That's life today.

That can be a good hedge against risk. What that style alone does not do is arm you with good defense attorneys when you are accused of some damage. That is why I vote for a solid global liability umbrella that will defend you at no cost to you with the right attorneys for the jurisdiction you are summoned from. The costs to source your own one off legal counsel can be unmeasurable. When you create multiple entities you may find yourself forced to insure each one of those entities individually at far greater cost. I hope you have a really good set of lawyers building those trust walls for you.

When I looked for global umbrella policies, I could find none. Called several brokers and they could find none.