Has anyone else noticed that CYOA mandatory insurance has sky rocketed. For example, for a Benereau 45 it is $100 per night with a $3,000 deductible. Seems rather high compared to other companies.

Welcome to the rest of the world. Once you leave the most competitive markets. We usually pay $5000 cash or wired well in advance that is not returned until 14 days after the charter.

In very general terms. The better the boat and the stronger the charter operator. The larger the damage deposit to ensure the boats are returned in the same or even better condition than they left the dock.

I guess my comment was about other companies in the VI, the same market.

I think you should give them a call and double check if you have that right. I paid $40 for the boat plus $10 for the dingy just a few months ago.

Just paid 75.00 pd total for a boat called "Dream Machine" <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/Grin.gif" alt="" />

That's interesting , I believe that is a 45 Beneteau . Was the deductible $3000. Thanks.

Rick,

Lol. When are you heading down to visit my sweet heart? I'm heading the wrong direction - have to visit Detroit on Thursday. I'm going to have to find my winter coat. I'd much rather be sailing for sure.

OP - sorry... The 45 Beneteau "Dream Machine" at CYOA is indeed my boat. She's lovely. I had her stable mate "Day One" out in June. She is nice as well. I am required to pay insurance on boats that are owned by others but unless the gray matter has completely failed me I'm sure the insurance rate was not what you are indicating. Accordingly, I highly encourage you to ping CYOA reservations and have a conversation with the lovely and competent Kirsten. I'm afraid I'm not much help. You would think I would know the answer to this but I do not.

Keep in mind you are not really buying insurance when paying the insurance fee. All charter boats are insured generally to a 5000 dollar deductible. The insurance tacked on by the charter companies buys down that 5000 dollar deductible to around 800 dollars depending on the company. There is no actual insurance being purchased and the charter company simply pockets the money. They know that most damage is Dock rash and under 800 or something big that's well over 5000. They also often get the repairs done for considerably less then is quoted.
Many charter companies will allow you as posted earlier to put a 5000 dollar deposit down instead of purchasing the gap insurance. Paying 500 dollars to protect a max loss of 4200 dollars is not a good buy. I always due the deposit given the option. The size or cost of the boat should have no impact on what is charged if you do take the insurance because you are only covering the gap from 5000 to 800 however some companies use a scale based on boat size for more profit.
G

Agree with previous post - I have never purchased the extra insurance, except in two instances when it was included in the flotilla fee.

It's a huge profit center for the charter companies and the don't have to share it with the boat owner.

Everyone is different. We do not see the boats we rent as hotel rooms for a spring break or bachelor party where we pay for a few nights in a large corporate property and disappear.

"It's a rental" comes to mind. A $5,000 cash well in advance deposit can help clear up that misconception.

We do see the boats for what most are. A large piece of private property that we are allowed to borrow for a week or more for a fee. We try to treat them like our own boats. On our own boats we are responsible for X amount of damage or loss each day we own them. We consider whatever the amount of the deposit a part of cost of the adventure. We wire those funds in advance with a clear record from our bank. If something happens on our watch the funds are already paid. We also carry our own global insurance coverage that extends to hired and borrowed vehicles/vessels. At the end of the trip if the deposit is returned we are ahead. If something happens the funds are already paid and the amount was in the original budget. After tens of charters we have only consumed some of our deposit twice. Once in Florida the boat inspection the day after we left revealed a scratch we do not recall doing. We just let the few hundred dollars go. In Maine early one morning we ran a large power boat onto some granite. We did it. There was no one else to blame. Weeks later after the boat was dried and repaired we received the remainder of our deposit back along with a complete itemized yard bill.

If there is anyone getting rich in the recreational charter boat industry please point me in that direction. I want to buy in today. The industry is capital intensive and hard work for everyone. The list of bankruptcies and broken marriages is long.

The marketing companies have long been desperate to make vacation boat charter as simple as the corporate hotel business. As the capital investment/insured value of these ever more complex vessels grows that will be harder to do. Taking clear responsibility for the first $5,000 of a assets insured for greater than $500,000 is a good practice all around. Enjoy the appearance of a "free" ride while you can.

I agree. I have confirmed that CYOA is indeed $100 per night with a deductible that varies with the boat. The one I'm looking at has a $3000 deductible. For a 10 day charter this would be $1000 and you are still on the hook for up to $3000. I have no problem if I mess up and cause some damage that I am responsible for it. However for a $1000 mandatory "insurance, I am not getting much relief. I have chartered many times in the BVIs but this seems to be out of line with other companies. I wonder if this is a new trend or just an one off. I wonder if this will affect CYOA business.

This past summer I got a quote from them and their insurance was something like 3x what the others required. I kept on looking.

I would double check with them since that seems really high. The boat more then likely has a charter policy with a 5000 deductible. To charge 1000 to buy the deductible down 2000 is pretty extreme.

Sorry this is long winded.

Ok. So if it’s 25.00 or 100.00 what really matters is the value at the end of the day.
It’s pretty common knowledge that the Insurance or DRA or whatever is a profit center.
Unless you’re a Government entity your income needs to be greater than your expenses.
If company A lists a boat at 4000.00 a week and charges 25.00/day “insurance” = 4175.00
If company B lists a boat at 4000.00 a week and charges 100.00/day “insurance”= 4700.00
Difference on my calculator is 525.00 a week or 75.00 per day
I’ve chartered from A and that’s why I charter from B. I work hard for this time and the stress level is as close to 0 as you can make it. That’s where CYOA ROCKS
New or newer boats released at a rate of 5 or less with great customer concern or other companies on a slow day looks like they're starting a regatta.
If 525.00 or less difference makes or breaks it is your decision.

Generally, boat insurance is 2% of hull value, so a $200,000 boat is about $4000 a year. I had a $2500 deductible which doubles in a named storm. FYI

I understand and appreciate your analysis about the difference in cost of $525. It really isn't about the difference in cost but rather the very high deductible that remains ($3000), that doesn't give much peace of mind.

Is there any option to not pay the insurance and just have a higher deductible? This is what we always did in Moorings - never paid the daily insurance rate, just had a deductible that (if I recall correctly) was 1% of hull value. As owners, with all the times we went, it ended up being a decent savings since we never had to pay any deductible as we brought the boats back in the same or better condition then when we left.

I am posting this response from John under my account as he is having difficulties logging into the CYOA Account.


Hello Everyone,

CYOA’s fleet insurance policy has a 2% deductible for hull loss. We currently offer vessels with deductibles that range from $4,110 to $22,000. Additionally our deductible on tender and outboard loss is 100%.

In January 2016 CYOA changed the pricing of our deductible buy down program, known by us as DRA (Deductible Reduction Agreement) to more accurately reflect the risk we take on each client’s behalf for a given vessel. The nightly fees range from $50 to $100 with a maximum risk on hull loss that varies by boat from $2,000 to $6,000.

As others have written, charterers are responsible, for “uninsured amounts” and deductibles are considered “uninsured amounts”. Most clients appreciate the protection this affords them in the event of a grounding or collision.

It is a profit center and it allows smaller companies like CYOA, without the financial wherewithal of publicly traded companies, to both attract owners with expensive new yachts and allows us to offer million dollar yachts for charter with risks that are affordable for the client. And, contrary to what has been written by others, it is shared regularly with boat owners by way of paying for client caused damage without asking the boat owner to do so. Our boat owners, without whom we would have no business, are happy with this arrangement.

For questions about the DRA fee for a specific boat please contact our reservation office.

John Jacob

I wish I had some YouTube of some reading that $22,000 insurance deductible that some generous owner is taking on with you each day that boat is at the dock or off sailing somewhere with crew brand new to the boat and many times the waters. We are fretting over $3-5K in our control for a few days. The owners are on a number much greater than that 24/7 by 365 and no where near the boat and controls. For the record we do not flinch at $5,000 deposits. $22,000 we would not leave that kind of money anywhere but escrow with our own attorney and bank.