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Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? #137688
08/11/2017 08:38 PM
08/11/2017 08:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 91
Cincinnati, Ohio
TepeRacing Offline OP
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TepeRacing  Offline OP
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Cincinnati, Ohio
https://www.facebook.com/groups/178954908878855/permalink/1415295251911475/
Unbelievable! Not sure how to post video? SV Seaduction

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Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137689
08/11/2017 09:40 PM
08/11/2017 09:40 PM
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StormJib Offline
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Just one of the many flaws of using a chart plotter to navigate once you are within sight of land. I certainly will get flamed but the prudent mariner knows how to use a paper chart and uses the paper and tools first any only uses the chart plotter out of sight of land to confirm the work on paper. The guy had no idea where he was in two or three dimensions. When you can see land cover the display and get your head out of the boat.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137690
08/11/2017 09:48 PM
08/11/2017 09:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 162
Plano, TX
cindyh Offline
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We bought a chart plotter when "Rush" came out of charter. Never installed it and just went with charts (which we learned on) and eyesight. Probably saved a lot of foul words.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: cindyh] #137691
08/11/2017 09:53 PM
08/11/2017 09:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 91
Cincinnati, Ohio
TepeRacing Offline OP
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They said the guy said the reef wasn't on the charts! Lol

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137692
08/11/2017 09:59 PM
08/11/2017 09:59 PM
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GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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The reef would be clearly visible from the helm station on a 5800. If you look!
G

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137693
08/11/2017 10:01 PM
08/11/2017 10:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Kansas
Chriskal Offline
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Kansas
That's insane. Somehow that guy was given command of a Moorings 58 and he has apparently never picked up a cruising guide, chart or even, out of curiosity, just zoomed in on White Bay via Google maps. The reef is clear and obvious in all of those mediums.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: Chriskal] #137694
08/11/2017 10:38 PM
08/11/2017 10:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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2 more great videos on his site if you click through the comments - including a power vessel going onto the reef from the inside!--- and Husky Towing trying to get Seaduction off.

The color changes of the water alone should be so obvious!!! any boater who drives onto that reef is blind, oblivious, incompetent and plain stupid.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: LocalSailor] #137695
08/11/2017 11:21 PM
08/11/2017 11:21 PM
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Posts: 704
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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Doesn't Moorings require one of their own captains on cats that big? Not that professional captains are much better when it comes to avoiding reefs. I frequently see them too close to Diamond Reef so their guests can snorkel off the back. Anything for a big tip!

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137696
08/12/2017 05:41 AM
08/12/2017 05:41 AM
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
TepeRacing said:
They said the guy said the reef wasn't on the charts! Lol



A chart plotter zoomed at the incorrect level will make all kinds of things disappear. Reefs even entire large islands are removed from the display some mistake for a "chart". That is just one of the reasons electronic chart plotters are so dangerous. Even more dangerous when used as the primary tool for coastal navigation. Depending on the time of day, cloud cover, and sun angle the reef may or not be visible. There simply is no substitute for proper use of the paper charts and visiable navigation aids once you are insight of land.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137697
08/12/2017 08:09 AM
08/12/2017 08:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 625
MD, USA
polaris Offline
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And, on the video the prop wash appears to indicate the skipper (I use the term loosely) is trying to power FORWARD over the reef. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />


Polaris
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: polaris] #137698
08/12/2017 09:15 AM
08/12/2017 09:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,119
Colorado and Sailing the World
Maria_and_Steve Online content
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Colorado and Sailing the World
NO! Moorings, Sunsail, Dream Yacht Charters, etc. don't require "captains" on their big catamarans, even up to and including 60 foot cats. No day sailor can be expected to understand these big cats unless they have significant sea time on the same model catamaran. But as long as the charter person has a credit card they can get a monster cat for a week! Just pay the deductible when you hit a reef <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

Quote
RatmansWife said:
Doesn't Moorings require one of their own captains on cats that big? Not that professional captains are much better when it comes to avoiding reefs. I frequently see them too close to Diamond Reef so their guests can snorkel off the back. Anything for a big tip!

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: Maria_and_Steve] #137699
08/12/2017 10:11 AM
08/12/2017 10:11 AM
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Posts: 1,049
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StormJib Offline
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For the most part the insurance underwriters are in control of what can be bareboated. The tradional limit is a hull value of one million pounds. For years we have chartered the largest and newest boat we could get. The documents generally show a value of 999,999. Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

At the end of the day the Moorings and others are nothing more than Marketing and Sales organizations. They own few boats. The banks, owners credit, and the insurance companies take all the hull and damage risks.

Before you throw and typed spears. Go to your local Hertz or Avis and watch the checkout procedures to rent a Escalade, Lincoln, or even now very high performance vehicles capable of extreme speed.

The real checkout at Hertz or the Tortola dock. Can you get the machine out of the parking spot and put of the parking/docking area.

White Bay always shows ignorance or risk taker. Many on this forum once went into White Bay and have learned something along the way that lead them to stop that "fun" practice. Others blindly follow the chart plotter around swearing by them until they learn why that is a risk to the safety of the hull and passengers.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137700
08/12/2017 10:32 AM
08/12/2017 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,065
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Short day visits to white Bay for us. No overnights anymore. Too much risk.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
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Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: warren460] #137701
08/12/2017 11:23 AM
08/12/2017 11:23 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 694
Portland, ME
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maineskier69 Offline
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Portland, ME
Brown, brown run aground... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />


If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will...
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: polaris] #137702
08/12/2017 11:39 AM
08/12/2017 11:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 64
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Nevermonday Offline
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Complete Idiots.. Ohh sorry the chart said there was no reef there .. You can clearly see the reef and there are two sets of markers to get in .. hope they get fined .. !!

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: Nevermonday] #137703
08/12/2017 12:01 PM
08/12/2017 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 598
Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
Markers??? Like RED GREEN?


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: Deepcut] #137704
08/12/2017 12:11 PM
08/12/2017 12:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,065
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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warren460  Offline
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Why would you expect them to mean much


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: warren460] #137705
08/12/2017 12:16 PM
08/12/2017 12:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 598
Georgia & South Carolina
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Deepcut Offline
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Georgia & South Carolina
Left over from Christmas?


Wes
s/v Sea Tiger (Lagoon 42)
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: Nevermonday] #137706
08/12/2017 04:55 PM
08/12/2017 04:55 PM
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
Nevermonday said:
Complete Idiots.. Ohh sorry the chart said there was no reef there .. You can clearly see the reef and there are two sets of markers to get in .. hope they get fined .. !!


That is what happens when the helmsman goes heads down following the chart plotter around like the video toy chart plotters are near shore. Near shore the helmsman must keep his head out of the boat. If a chart plotter must be used a designated navigator should be tasked to use the screens well away and out of sight of the helmsman.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137707
08/12/2017 05:40 PM
08/12/2017 05:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,065
Ontario, Canada
warren460 Offline
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Truth is we will likely never know the details re how it happened.


Warren
S/V Scuba Doo
Lagoon 450, (part of the TMM fleet until April, Charter Caribe (all inclusive-crewed) in St Thomas thereafter https://chartercaribe.com/charters/ ).
A TTOL sponsor
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: warren460] #137708
08/12/2017 08:03 PM
08/12/2017 08:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 42
Midwest
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sunshine44 Online content
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Midwest
We were in White Bay on Ohana yesterday when this happened. The "Captain" literally just drove on the reef between the two sets of channel markers. There were people on the front of the cat, a crunch was heard and they flew forward. Husky came and inflated bags under it and pulled them off. Apparently no serious hull damage and they then took a ball at Ivan's. The Moorings has two 58's that they bareboat charter. Wonder if he has a clue the internet sensation he has become.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: warren460] #137709
08/12/2017 08:03 PM
08/12/2017 08:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 293
Redmond, WA
MrEZgoin Offline
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Redmond, WA
Quote
warren460 said:
Truth is we will likely never know the details re how it happened.


But we will continue with speculation that makes us feel as superior as possible.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: MrEZgoin] #137710
08/12/2017 08:36 PM
08/12/2017 08:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 198
SW Florida
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CptCook Offline
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SW Florida
Quote
MrEZgoin said:
But we will continue with speculation that makes us feel as superior as possible.


Really? Did you actually watch the video?


"Be a Traveler, not a tourist!"
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: CptCook] #137711
08/12/2017 11:12 PM
08/12/2017 11:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,066
South Jersey, USA
boatjunkie Offline
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South Jersey, USA
Moorings will bareboat the 58 with 2 experienced skippers. I have looked into chartering the 58 and that is what I was told in the last year or so.



[Linked Image]
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: MrEZgoin] #137712
08/12/2017 11:17 PM
08/12/2017 11:17 PM
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Posts: 992
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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Quote
MrEZgoin said:


But we will continue with speculation that makes us feel as superior as possible.


I surely have no superior feelings, have made my share of errors over the years - but that is a very obvious REEF.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: LocalSailor] #137713
08/12/2017 11:25 PM
08/12/2017 11:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
USVI
LocalSailor Offline
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LocalSailor  Offline
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USVI
I think I would be way too embarrassed to take a White Bay mooring after that entrance - seriously.
I once sailed aground entering into Drakes Anchorage restaurant in North Sound - I canceled my dinner reservation and anchored way far away that night. Totally embarrassed! And I had only forgotten to lift the centerboard.

Last edited by LocalSailor; 08/12/2017 11:28 PM.
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: LocalSailor] #137714
08/13/2017 05:50 AM
08/13/2017 05:50 AM
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StormJib Offline
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Unless the charter somehow got Husky out there on their own? I suspect The Moorings were and are involved taking command of the vessel for the remainder of the charter. The owner and the owners insurerer should be demanding a survey prior to any new stresses or loads being put on the boat. Depending on the twisting loads on that nub keel there could be some issues to address or rudder concerns.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: polaris] #137715
08/13/2017 07:59 AM
08/13/2017 07:59 AM
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BoatDrinks2 Offline
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You can clearly see the green channel marker in the first video...

When we go in there, I still have lookouts on the bow.

During the Moorings briefings that I've been in, there are a few areas on the map the briefer jokingly named as a Moorings "sales office"... I guess this is a new one. <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137716
08/13/2017 11:48 AM
08/13/2017 11:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,152
Rincón PR
casailor53 Offline
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Rincón PR
Quote
StormJib said:
Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

tonnage/weight. Huh?

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: casailor53] #137717
08/13/2017 04:58 PM
08/13/2017 04:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
More cut and paste from Ron. He has not left PA in the past 15 years. Call him Wiki Ron.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: boatjunkie] #137718
08/13/2017 08:25 PM
08/13/2017 08:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,577
Massachusetts
maytrix Offline
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Quote
boatjunkie said:
Moorings will bareboat the 58 with 2 experienced skippers. I have looked into chartering the 58 and that is what I was told in the last year or so.


Looks like that may not have been the case this time.

We took the 58 out shortly after they were in charter - The size only played a role in docking so I'm sure they would have done this on any other boat as well.


Matt
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: maytrix] #137719
08/13/2017 09:33 PM
08/13/2017 09:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,960
Charlotte, NC
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NCSailor Offline
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Charlotte, NC
A 50' mono with a single engine is much more difficult to handle than a 58' with twins.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: NCSailor] #137720
08/13/2017 09:45 PM
08/13/2017 09:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 704
Memphis, BVI, CT
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RatmansWife Offline
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And both are considerably more difficult after a day visiting beach bars. Just sayin'.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: casailor53] #137721
08/14/2017 06:12 AM
08/14/2017 06:12 AM
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Sunset_Sammy Offline
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Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
StormJib said:
Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

tonnage/weight. Huh?

I was thinking the same thing, I was taught tonnage was a factor of the space available for cargo and has nothing to do with the actual weight of the boat.


Life is short, live it!
Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: TepeRacing] #137722
08/14/2017 07:11 AM
08/14/2017 07:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 218
Parrish, FL
deliveryskipper Online content
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Parrish, FL
When I try the link to the video, I get the message "Sorry, this content isn't available right now". I tried using both Edge and Firefox. It doesn't open on my ipad either.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: NCSailor] #137723
08/14/2017 07:32 AM
08/14/2017 07:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,415
GA/NC
GeorgeC1 Offline
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Quote
NCSailor said:
A 50' mono with a single engine is much more difficult to handle than a 58' with twins.


I would disagree with this. I could easily singlehand a 50 foot mono and did it many times. I would not consider trying to singlehand a larger cat.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: RatmansWife] #137724
08/14/2017 10:24 AM
08/14/2017 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,211
GJ, CO S/V Long Overdue
sail2wind Offline
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Quote
RatmansWife said:
And both are considerably more difficult after a day visiting beach bars. Just sayin'.



If you are irresponsible <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/toast.gif" alt="" />

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: casailor53] #137725
08/14/2017 12:28 PM
08/14/2017 12:28 PM
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StormJib Offline
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Quote
casailor53 said:
Quote
StormJib said:
Some of the underwriters also put a limit in "tonnage". The new materials allow larger boats within the weight limits.

tonnage/weight. Huh?


Yes that is the way it works. The underwriters put limits on the weight and value of the boats the underwriters will insure for use without a crew. No insurance no finance along with some other issues. You may not like it but the underwriters decided what boats are bareboat and what boats are not. The marketing companies would rent anything the owners would buy and the customers would pay for.

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: StormJib] #137726
08/14/2017 01:32 PM
08/14/2017 01:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 271
Ottawa, Canada
UncleLuff Offline
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so sad! - no excuse at all. Was just there in June for the night on a ball. According to Moorings, I can charter anything up to the 58ft Catamaran. So I guess I don't have as much experience as that Captain. But I know enough to research harbour and bay entrances on the paper chart and cruising guide before I set sail! And I know the phrase "red right returning".... <img src="http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/images/graemlins/duh.gif" alt="" />

Re: Moorings 58 on reef in White Bay... really? [Re: UncleLuff] #137727
08/14/2017 02:26 PM
08/14/2017 02:26 PM
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StormJib Offline
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If you want a little more speculation since the skipper of the 5800 will not show up here for his trial. Same with the Mooring's Dock worker who "checked the two out". That boat may have been on autopilot. The boat hits the reef without slowing down and remains in gear well after impact.. There may have not been anybody near the helm with skills when the 5800 ground to a stop on the reef.

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